Is Any Denomination Saved?

[Truther]

And once again - tongues is not "THE" evidence of the Spirit - but only ONE of the gifts.
Besides - I know PLENTY of Catholics who speak in tongues.

How many time must I humiliate you by showing you the words of Paul on the subject before you finally get it?

1 Cor. 12:27-31
Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.
Are ALL apostles? Are ALL prophets? Are ALL teachers? Do ALL work miracles? Do ALL have gifts of healing? Do ALL speak in tongues? Do all interpret?
Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.

Next time - do your homework . . .

You are mixed up.

The gift of tongues are various known languages.(Divers kinds of tongues).

Unknown tongues are only for the speaker as a human spirit prayer.

Various known languages were not an issue in chapter 14, but unknown tongues were.

All were expected to speak in unknown tongues per chapter 14, but few were expected to be used in divers kinds of tongues per chapter 12.

 

[Renniks]

Baptism by water, is no evidence or confidence of salvation, in infants or otherwise. Jesus Himself revealed what we must do in Luke 11:13. Through faith in Jesus, we must ASK for the Gift of God's Holy Spirit. God is faithful to give Him to us, because it is the work of Him "sealing" us to the promise of our redemption, upon the Day of Jesus' Glorious return.

Romans 8:8-9 says it all, no matter what Religious denomination one belongs to. If you don't know your status with Him about that, then you better get to it.eed
John 3:18 reveals that there is no middle ground, aka purgatory. While we have breath now, we are either one of His, or none of His.

Agreed. Baptism is only an outward testimony. It doesn't save anyone.

 

[Enow]

Dear enow,

If one is not the fruit of the union of the Bridegroom and His holy bride, whos child are they?
Christ and His Church are One!

Peace be with you!

Dear Brother Philip James,

Since it is a Catholic prophesy that the Vatican will be destroyed for when they will move their headquarters to Jerusalem, whose child are the Catholics then?

We are not to be identified by a church but by our faith in Jesus Christ in how we are all the children of God. Remember this reproof?

1 Corinthians 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.... 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.... 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Since it si by believing in the preaching of the cross is how we are saved and God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:for why we glory in the Lord. then no church can lord over others by creating division of being how any believer shall receive water baptism, let alone make it a sacrament that only the Catholic Church can give in obtaining salvation within that Catholic Church. The Catholic Church divides the body of Christ by insisting baptism thru their denomination only.

1 Corinthians 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Sometime along the way, the Church at Rome became carnal by demanding only thru her doors can salvation be achieved when coming to and believing in Jesus Christ is how any one becomes a member of His body of believers hence the real Church with Him as the chief cornerstone.

 

[Enow]

No, the gift of tongues are various known languages.(Divers kinds of tongues).

Unknown tongues are only for the speaker as a human spirit prayer.

In context; Paul is saying that if any one speaks in tongues as manifested by the Holy Spirit, YOU are to pray that the Holy Spirit will interpret that tongue thru another so that the tongue speaker will understand that tongue manifested thru him and be fruitful to himself as a tongue speaker.

1 Corinthians 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

Various known languages were not an issue in chapter 14, but unknown tongues were.

All were expected to speak in unknown tongues per chapter 14, but few were expected to be used in divers kinds of tongues per chapter 12.

You need to ask Jesus Christ in normal prayer so when you get an answer in seeing the truth in His words, you will give the Father thanks in Jesus's name for the answer to that prayer, because you missed Paul's words when he gave you the bottom line on what tongues are for.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

You can't say he was only talking about unknown tongues in chapter 14 and you can't disprove that God's gift of tongues is unknown to the tongue speaker for what Paul was referring to as unknown tongue in that chapter, but it is obvious that tongues is not a human spirit prayer practice at all, but Paul explaining why tongue speakers should pray, hoping the Holy Spirit will interpret that tongue so that tongue will be understood & fruitful to the tongue speaker himself.

 

[Truther]

In context; Paul is saying that if any one speaks in tongues as manifested by the Holy Spirit, YOU are to pray that the Holy Spirit will interpret that tongue thru another so that the tongue speaker will understand that tongue manifested thru him and be fruitful to himself as a tongue speaker.

1 Corinthians 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.



You need to ask Jesus Christ in normal prayer so when you get an answer in seeing the truth in His words, you will give the Father thanks in Jesus's name for the answer to that prayer, because you missed Paul's words when he gave you the bottom line on what tongues are for.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

You can't say he was only talking about unknown tongues in chapter 14 and you can't disprove that God's gift of tongues is unknown to the tongue speaker for what Paul was referring to as unknown tongue in that chapter, but it is obvious that tongues is not a human spirit prayer practice at all, but Paul explaining why tongue speakers should pray, hoping the Holy Spirit will interpret that tongue so that tongue will be understood & fruitful to the tongue speaker himself.

Interpretation is one of the 9 gifts.
Unknown tongues is not.
Divers kinds of tongues is one of the 9 gifts also.
Unknown tongues is not.

Notice, a gift of interpretation is needed to define a non gift(of the 9).

 

[BreadOfLife]

There is a difference between walking in the Spirit, as opposed to walking in Religion.
The Pharisees, and the types thereof, never do get the message. Much of that can be learned from the parable of the wheat and the tares. Matthew 13

And there is a difference between believing in the promises f Christ - and doubting Him.
YOU should heed the following . . .

Heb. 3:12-14
See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Do pay attention too. The reply was to Truther in reproving his use of tongues as proof or a sign of anything but I added the @ to your name regarding a comment about switching out faith with the Catholic Church in those verses. I shall repeat it one more time.. the first was to Truther, then I attached your name to the other reproof after Truther's reproof.

It did not say..

That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through tongues.... For ye are all the children of God by tongues in Christ Jesus.

@BreadOfLife

And it did not say...

That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through the Catholic Church.... For ye are all the children of God by the Catholic Church in Christ Jesus.

See how I was not addressing tongues reproof to you but how your theology about the Catholic Church being the means how we are saved runs against scripture for how we receive the promise of the Spirit and how we are all children of God by faith in Jesus Christ; that includes Catholics. albeit, you all have been misled to believer otherwise.

We are saved BY Christ's sacrifice on Calvary - but we are saved THOUGH His Church (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23, Acts 9:4-5, Eph. 1:22-23, 1 Tim. 3:15).

If you actually believe that He built and left a Church on earth just for "kicks" - and that we don't have to belong - then you are sadly mistaken . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

You are mixed up.
The gift of tongues are various known languages.(Divers kinds of tongues).
Unknown tongues are only for the speaker as a human spirit prayer.
Various known languages were not an issue in chapter 14, but unknown tongues were.
All were expected to speak in unknown tongues per chapter 14, but few were expected to be used in divers kinds of tongues per chapter 12.

WRONG.

Once again, Einstein - tongues are ONE of the gifts of the Holy Spirit - and NOT that "only" evidence of the Spirit.
Peter spoke wisely of of YOUR ignorance when he wrote:
1 Pet. 3:16
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people twist, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

 

[Enow]

Interpretation is one of the 9 gifts.
Unknown tongues is not.
Divers kinds of tongues is one of the 9 gifts also.
Unknown tongues is not.

Notice, a gift of interpretation is needed to define a non gift(of the 9).

It doesn't align with His words. The gift of interpretation is for the divers kinds of tongues which is another way of saying unknown tongue. By saying there is a tongue that is a non-gift, would only make God the author of confusion. There is no tongue that is a non-gift other than what is found in the world in other religions, idolatry, and the occult for why that kind of tongue is not of Him at all if God expects sinners to depart from that kind of tongue. That is why you cannot say there is a tongue that is a non-gift for why interpretation comes because gibberish nonsense is not of Him.

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.

Anyone claiming to get that non-gift of unknown tongues by what they claim was the "Holy Spirit" coming over the believer later in life as a saved believer is why that tongue of gibberish nonsense is not of Him at all, because the Holy Spirit has been in that believer since He was saved at the calling of the gospel so they can know that spirit coming over them later in life was not the real Holy Spirit and why that tongue cannot be of Him.

Verse 13 above proves that there can only be one drink of the One Spirit by how we were all baptized into the one body of Christ so when believers testify to having another drink of the One Spirit by how they got that tongue or how they got slain in the spirit of holy laughter, that is the spirit of the antichrist and not the real indwelling Holy Spirit in them.

A church had thought they had God's gift of tongues with interpretation and had a linguist record and translate everything going on in that church only to find that it was all gibberish nonsense and the interpreters were either faking it or winging it like Joyce Meyers says in how she interpret tongue by getting the feel or gist of it of what was being said. Although she was not a member of that church, apparently her mentality on interpreting is getting around for why many are in error when God's gift of tongues is a foreign language unknown to the tongue speaker for why Paul would pray that someone else would interpret because it is unknown to himself so that he may understand it for that tongue to be fruitful to himself.

So I hope the Lord is giving just cause to prove that tongue by the scripture as only He can help you see the truth in His words for why gibberish nonsense is not of Him at all for why no one need to guess what that tongue is saying.

 

[Enow]

We are saved BY Christ's sacrifice on Calvary - but we are saved THOUGH His Church (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23, Acts 9:4-5, Eph. 1:22-23, 1 Tim. 3:15).

If you actually believe that He built and left a Church on earth just for "kicks" - and that we don't have to belong - then you are sadly mistaken . . .

The body of believers is the Church which Christ is the Head of.

We are saved by faith in what Jesus Christ has done on Calvary and has risen from the dead to prove His victory over death and sin.

If you think a church can do no wrong nor go astray, then you have to explain why 5 out of 7 churches in Revelations needed correction or else.

 

[Enow]

And there is a difference between believing in the promises f Christ - and doubting Him.
YOU should heed the following . . .

Heb. 3:12-14
See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.

Reads as turning away from the living God, that is Jesus Christ, not as turning away from the Catholic Church.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The body of believers is the Church which Christ is the Head of.
We are saved by faith in what Jesus Christ has done on Calvary and has risen from the dead to prove His victory over death and sin.
If you think a church can do no wrong nor go astray, then you have to explain why 5 out of 7 churches in Revelations needed correction or else.

The Church IS a BODY of followers of Christ.

The Church is NOT a disjointed gaggle of tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering Protestant denominations that ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim to be "led" by the Holy Spirit.

We are saved by faith and obedience of faith.
Faith = Belief + Obedience (Works)

 

[BreadOfLife]

Reads as turning away from the living God, that is Jesus Christ, not as turning away from the Catholic Church.

Jesus equates His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5, Eph. 1:22-23, 1 Tim. 3:15).

 

[Enow]

Jesus equates His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5, Eph. 1:22-23, 1 Tim. 3:15).

Jesus equates Himself as the Head of the Church, the chief cornerstone, and the believers are part of that body of Christ. The Catholic Church does not have the right to say who is not of His body when they are, just by being believers in Jesus Christ for how they got that seal of adoption.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Jesus equates Himself as the Head of the Church, the chief cornerstone, and the believers are part of that body of Christ. The Catholic Church does not have the right to say who is not of His body when they are, just by being believers in Jesus Christ for how they got that seal of adoption.

The Church nor only has the right to say who is part of the Body - but she has the God-given AUTHORITY to make this declaration.

WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth will be bound in Heaven and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth will be loosed in Heaven (Matt. 16:19, Matt. 18:18, John 20:23).

 

[Taken]

And there is a difference between believing in the promises f Christ - and doubting Him.
YOU should heed the following . . .

Heb. 3:12-14
See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.

While you lecture Earburner on "believing and doubting" ...
you failed to quote Earburner
Having said Anything to a misguided difference between "believing and doubting."

Funny how ONLY your opinion appears, but nothing of Earburner regarding that point!

Then YOU "cherry-pick" a Warning you have decided Earburner should heed.

A sinful unbelieving heart??

What man would caution a "Converted man" to heed "that WARNING?"

Paul was giving that Warning to his "brethren"...(you do know Paul was Jewish, teaching and Warning his Jewish "brethren".. eh?)... Brethren who were FOLLOWING and learning about Christ Jesus...but NOT Converted!

Seriously dude...as you have been told before, flipping through Scripture and Quoting to people what does not Apply...is simply a show of ignorance.

Earburner is Already Converted...he already has a NEW Heart...hello The old Heart is cut off...circumcised...he already "saw to it"...his Heart is no longer capable of being hardened...capable of Sinning.

Sheesh!

 

[Taken]

So I hope the Lord is giving just cause to prove that tongue by the scripture as only He can help you see the truth in His words for why gibberish nonsense is not of Him at all for why no one need to guess what that tongue is saying.

The OT reveals tongues is a common language, spoken for communication of people living amongst themselves.
Gen 10: 20,31

Acts 2:
Reveals men born of many nations, with their own Differing languages (native tongues), were in Jerusalem.
Acts 2:
Reveals the chosen Disciples and Disciple followers were all gathered together in Jerusalem and all Received the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2
Reveals after the Disciples received the Holy Spirit, they also received the Gift (of tongues...aka the ability to speak In Foreign Languages To the multitudes of men who themselves spoke their own native languages (tongues).

Some men Hearing, accused the Disciples of being drunk, because they did not comprehend the foreign language.

However men who themselves spoke a foreign language were amazed and marveled at how Great God is to allow them to hear the Word of God, through these Jewish men, EFFECTED by the Power of God.

Preachers, people rattling off some blah, blah, blah in the middle of a Sermon...when no person is present to hear, comprehend, or identify that is their language and the translation thereof...personally , I would call gibberish...and not Scriptural intent of tongues.

And noted: there are times an individual in prayer to God, can not find the words in his own language the make an expression of thought to the Lord...and a groan, sigh, plea for God to search one heart is sufficient for God to know your thoughts/request without uttering gibberish.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Enow]

The Church nor only has the right to say who is part of the Body - but she has the God-given AUTHORITY to make this declaration.

WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth will be bound in Heaven and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth will be loosed in Heaven (Matt. 16:19, Matt. 18:18, John 20:23).

You have yet to prove Peter or Paul taught the tradition of succession in the scripture.

 

[Enow]

The OT reveals tongues is a common language, spoken for communication of people living amongst themselves.
Gen 10: 20,31

Acts 2:
Reveals men born of many nations, with their own Differing languages (native tongues), were in Jerusalem.
Acts 2:
Reveals the chosen Disciples and Disciple followers were all gathered together in Jerusalem and all Received the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2
Reveals after the Disciples received the Holy Spirit, they also received the Gift (of tongues...aka the ability to speak In Foreign Languages To the multitudes of men who themselves spoke their own native languages (tongues).

Some men Hearing, accused the Disciples of being drunk, because they did not comprehend the foreign language.

But it was a foreign language for why they had not understood.

However men who themselves spoke a foreign language were amazed and marveled at how Great God is to allow them to hear the Word of God, through these Jewish men, EFFECTED by the Power of God.

Preachers, people rattling off some blah, blah, blah in the middle of a Sermon...when no person is present to hear, comprehend, or identify that is their language and the translation thereof...personally , I would call gibberish...and not Scriptural intent of tongues.

Unless it comes with interpretation, having 2 or 3 speak in tongues for another to interpret, I would call that reasons to discern that.

And noted: there are times an individual in prayer to God, can not find the words in his own language the make an expression of thought to the Lord...and a groan, sigh, plea for God to search one heart is sufficient for God to know your thoughts/request without uttering gibberish.

God Bless,
Taken

Sorry, brother, but there are contentions for praying in gibberish nonsense. #1 There is no need for it.

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

I believe tongue speakers learned from their mistake that it wasn't the Holy Spirit praying but Paul's spirit praying ( which was for the Holy Spirit to interpret that tongue being manifested thru himself from another so he could understand that tongue for that tongue to be fruitful to himself ) So now they are assuming that their spirit is praying in supernatural tongues when they don't know what to pray and Matthew 6:7-8 disproves that tongue.

Romans 8:26-27 is about what happens when we do not know what to pray for why originally tongue speakers that it was the Holy Spirit praying in most modern bibles when actually, the KJV testifies that the Holy Spirit makes silent intercessions for us with groanings which CANNOT be uttered at all; hence silence. That is how Jesus searching our hearts and knowing the mind of the Spirit knows about the silent intercessions of the Spirit's to give them to the Father for how the Father knows everything before we ask in prayer.

The importance of "knowing" what we had asked for is because then we may give the Father thanks in Jesus's name for answers to prayers. That is not going to happen when believers cops out and babble, not knowing what is being prayed supposedly by their spirits. If anything, they should ask Jesus for prayer request suggestion hoping some ideas or notion will come into their heads to pray about so you know you had prayed fro that to give the Father thanks in Jesus's name for answers to prayers; otherwise, the way they are doing it, that thanksgiving is not going to happen.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing. 18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

So pray about this for confirmation from Him on how believers are to pray because tongues of just moanings and groanings and what not, cannot be a part of that at all.

 

[Taken]

Sorry, brother, but there are contentions for praying in gibberish nonsense. #1 There is no need for it.

No need to be sorry...I was not promoting it, or agreeing with that...just noting it occurs.

Glory to God,
Taken