--Salvation is NOT by works of merit nor by works of the OT law that required perfection.
So you teach that salvation is by "these" works and just not "those" works. The Bible does not teach salvation by works. (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).
The Bible does teach salvation is by faithful obedience to God's will (Hebrews 5:9).
There is a difference between doing God's will IN ORDER TO BECOME SAVED:
John 6:40 - For
my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and
believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
AND doing God's will AFTER WE HAVE BEEN SAVED: 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for
this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
As I already explained in post #172, in regards to Hebrews 5:9, only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (
Romans 1:16) in order to become saved and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by practicing righteousness and not sin. (
1 John 3:9,10)
*In either sense, only believers obey Him.
Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (
Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (
Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation by works.
*In either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.
There is no example of God saving the rebellious, disobedient person who refuses to obey His will.
Those who refuse to obey His will by believing in the Son (John 6:40) in order to receive eternal life are in rebellion, are lost (John 3:18) and are characterized as disobedient.
Both OT and NT have examples of those who obeyed God's will (Noah, Abraham; Paul, the eunuch) and not the first time does the Bible say their obedience earned them, merited them God's grace. Hence any idea that obedience is an attempt to earn brownie points with God is patently false, a straw man argument in an attempt to get around the truth.
Both OT and NT saints are saved on the basis of faith and not on the basis of acts of obedience which followed and were produced "out of" faith. Seeking salvation based on the merit of multiple acts of obedience is salvation by works, no matter how much you try and sugar coat it. It's not a straw man argument and you can't have it both ways.
--John 3:36 ASV "He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him."
Believing itself is obedience while unbelief is obeying not.
I often hear works-salvationists quote
John 3:36 in the NASB and "stress" the word "obey" to imply that we are saved by obedience/works. In regards to "does not obey the Son" in the New American Standard translation of the Bible, this does not mean that receiving eternal life is received based on the merits of our obedience/works which follows believing in the Son, but
obey by choosing to believe in the Son. If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes
and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said.
To obey the Son here is to choose to believe in the Son.
The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that
"believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says
"rejects the Son" and the HCSB says,
"refuses to believe in the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "
to disbelieve willfully and perversely." *In the context of 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to
reject the Son by refusing to believe in the Son.
Therefore salvation cannot be had until one first believes, that is, until one FIRST OBEYS.
Right there! Clear cut case of salvation by works, which demonstrates that you don't believe.
--Romans 6:17-18
Order of events for those in Rome:
1) were servants of righteousness
2) obeyed from the heart
3) then freed from sin/justified/servants of righteousness.
Obedience BEFORE justification. Obeyong from the heart is doing God's righteousness. How can one be a servant of righteousness BEFORE he even does any righteousness? How can continuing in UNrighteousness ever make one righteous? Not possible, not even sensical.
Choosing to believe the gospel is the act of obedience that saves. (Romans 1:16; 10:16) Not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/works which follow. As I already explained in post #172. Works-salvationists tend to ignore
"servants of obedience unto righteousness" (
Romans 6:16) and simply stress "obedience unto righteousness" as if works of obedience which follow saving faith in Christ are "unto righteousness," as if we are saved by works. Unbelievers are not slaves of obedience unto righteousness no matter how much so called obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation by works.
There is a contrast here between servants/slaves. There are only two kinds of servants/slaves in this world, in the spiritual sense;
servants/slaves of sin unto death, (unbelievers) or
servants/slaves of obedience unto righteousness. (believers) When we place our faith exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation, we then
become "servants of obedience unto righteousness."
*Being slaves of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on to say in
Romans 6:18 -
"You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness."
*Notice in
Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one
believes unto righteousness..
*Notice in
Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but
believes on Him who justifies the ungodly,
his faith (not works)
is accounted for righteousness.