The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[RogerDC]

The Apostle John said that the anointing (the Holy Spirit) within us, whom Christ sent to represent Him will teach us everything we need to know. When did the Roman Catholic Church take over from the Holy Spirit?

So how come you non-Catholics come up with thousands of different interpretations of Scripture? There must be thousands of different Holy Spirits, all teaching different things!

Speaking of which, your interpretation of what the apostle John wrote is easily proven to be wrong. If there is only one HS, there should be only one interpretation of Scripture.

 

[Enow]

No. It is the Church that is infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit, but is rejected by brainwashed and gullible suckers who don't know what they're talking about.

Look at what the Council of Trent had accomplished for what you believe in this thread. Care to share anything to dispute history shown here?

The Council of Trent and its support of paganism.

 

[RogerDC]

When believers are misled by the teachings of the Church, then yeah, you are going to get a variety of believers not really listening to the Holy Spirit in them saying otherwise, because they refuse to believe what the Church has taught them was not according to rightly dividing the word of truth to them.

And the reference to Church is not exclusive to the CC either. FYI

So who has not been misled and has the one, correct interpretation of Scripture? You?

 

[RogerDC]

Look at what the Council of Trent had accomplished for what you believe in this thread. Care to share anything to dispute history shown here?

The Council of Trent and its support of paganism.

Thanks for the link. What a pity it's drivel written by yet another brainwashed, gullible and ignorant sucker.

 

[michaelvpardo]

If you can't find anyone who can infallibly interpret the Scriptures, then the Scriptures are useless.

Actually, I did answer the question. You just didn't like the answer.
In response to this last bit of folly you posted try reading 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

"However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come."
John 16:13

So my blaspheming friend, does this verse apply to you?

 

[Paul Christensen]

No. It is the Church that is infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit, but is rejected by brainwashed and gullible suckers who don't know what they're talking about.

Constantine, a pagan emperor, who decided to become a nominal "Christian" but kept his pagan views, introduced those pagan views into the church thereby corrupting it. All one has to do is to read standard church history to know that. Also, for long periods of the church in the Middle Ages, there were popes who were adulterers, conceived illegitimate children, had innocent people murdered, and yet when they sat in the "chair of Peter" purported to give "new revelation from God" for the church. How can that be? How can a man who is a total unbeliever and an unrepentant sinner get and give true revelation from God. His manner of life is a total contradiction! And what about the period in history when there were two popes, one in Rome and the other in France. Who was right when either of them had "new" revelational doctrine for the church?

Martin Luther went to Rome on a pilgrimage while he was still a monk, hoping that he would find the best examples of true spirituality there. He was shocked and disillusioned to find that Rome was riddled with prostitution and homosexuality and political intrigue. He saw the need for a comprehensive reformation for the church, and that was the content of his 95 Theses that he nailed to the church door in Wittenburg.

The Council of Trent was the church's reaction to Luther, and Vatican II confirmed everything in it. So, nothing has really changed. I viewed a two hour documentary made by Vatican insiders who explored the reason why Pope Benedict resigned. They uncovered widespread prostitution and homosexual orgies among even the hierarchy of the church at the Vatican. In fact, one of the Vatican insiders noted that there are more prostitutes in the Vatican than any other red light district in the world! This information does not come from Protestants criticising the church, but from Roman Catholic researchers themselves, and different officials in the Vatican who are seriously concerned about the low state of morality among priests and members of the hierarchy.

Pope John Paul I intended to bring reforms into the Vatican, and he was found dead in mysterious circumstances. Many insiders (not Protestants), believe he was murdered.

So, this is the Church that purports to be able to infallibly interpret the Scriptures? I leave that answer to those who are prepared to have an unbiased view of it.

 

[Paul Christensen]

So how come you non-Catholics come up with thousands of different interpretations of Scripture? There must be thousands of different Holy Spirits, all teaching different things!

Speaking of which, your interpretation of what the apostle John wrote is easily proven to be wrong. If there is only one HS, there should be only one interpretation of Scripture.

How do you know that there are "thousands" of interpretations of Scripture among Protestants? Over the last 53 years I have extensively read commentaries and many Protestant authors, and their interpretation of the basic and essential gospel of Christ is basically the same. The only real departures from the very wide range of authors across all Protestant denominations comes from the Roman Catholic Church, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Mormons.

All Evangelical Protestants abide by the Nicene Creed and the Westminster Confession of Faith. Any differences of doctrine between Calvinists and Arminians, are basically minor and don't detract from the basic gospel of Christ in which they are both totally agreed. Even traditional Pentecostals and Charismatics hold to the Westminster Confession of Faith.

The Charismatics who do depart from Sola Scriptura, are those who purport to hear extra-Biblical voices giving them "new revelation" that the vast majority of Evangelicals, Pentecostals, and Charismatics view are totally false and deceptive.

 

[michaelvpardo]

So how come you non-Catholics come up with thousands of different interpretations of Scripture? There must be thousands of different Holy Spirits, all teaching different things!

Speaking of which, your interpretation of what the apostle John wrote is easily proven to be wrong. If there is only one HS, there should be only one interpretation of Scripture.

In a healthy soul understanding changes as we move toward a mature mind in Christ. That's growth. That's a large part of sanctification, coming to agreement with what God says and submitting to Him as head of the body of Christ. What pastors tend to say on the matter to be doctrinally correct, is that there is only one accurate interpretation of scripture, but many applications. How does a person hear from God through scripture? Some people would say that we can't, but those would be liars (though perhaps through ignorance.) How does God use a book like Job or Esther to speak truth into your life? And if the message you walk away with is not "the infallible meaning of the text" as you define it, is God not talking to you? God doesn't lie, but the Holy Spirit gives life (breath) to the scripture to bring convincing of Truth in application to you, to your life, your situation. If He doesn't do that for you are you in a relationship with Him (Jesus by His Spirit)?
And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent. John 17:3

 

[Paul Christensen]

In a healthy soul understanding changes as we move toward a mature mind in Christ. That's growth. That's a large part of sanctification, coming to agreement with what God says and submitting to Him as head of the body of Christ. What pastors tend to say on the matter to be doctrinally correct, is that there is only one accurate interpretation of scripture, but many applications. How does a person hear from God through scripture? Some people would say that we can't, but those would be liars (though perhaps through ignorance.) How does God use a book like Job or Esther to speak truth into your life? And if the message you walk away with is not "the infallible meaning of the text" as you define it, is God not talking to you? God doesn't lie, but the Holy Spirit gives life (breath) to the scripture to bring convincing of Truth in application to you, to your life, your situation. If He doesn't do that for you are you in a relationship with Him (Jesus by His Spirit)?
And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent. John 17:3

Rightly dividing the Word of Truth involves knowing which part of the Bible is written for us, and which is written to us.

Most of the O.T. is written for us - for our education. We are not required to accept any part of it as specific instructions to us. But that doesn't stop us from learning the principles behind what we read and applying those principles to our lives.

We learn from Job that there is more going on in the spiritual world than what might be apparent to us, and that the bottom line is that we should trust God to be faithful to us regardless of what might happen to us in this world.

Esther shows us the courage of a woman who was prepared to risk her life to save her people and that when a person is moving in the will of God, they are protected from harm, and that justice will prevail in the end.

We see in the life of Joseph that although life turns to custard at the start, remaining faithful to God no matter what will have its great rewards in the end, and that being faithful to God in negative circumstances affects many more than just the person himself, even the whole future of a nation.

We see in the lives of the kings who were faithful to God that they were blessed with success and productive reigns, while those who weren't came to a sticky end.

We see in the story of the old and young prophet, that when God gives an instruction that it is followed to the letter, even though a respected peer might say they have heard from God and will tell you something different than what God has told you. As a result of the young prophet not going straight home as God instructed, and spent the night with the old prophet, he was killed the next morning by lions as he continued on his way home.

We see in the account of Solomon how that someone can staff off famously in the favour of God with remarkable wisdom, and fall away to worship idols and become totally disillusioned with life as an old man.

We also see in the Psalms how to pray and worship God. We see in Proverbs what is basic wisdom in life, and how to escape life's pitfalls and "minefields" by observing the wisdom written in that book.

We see in the prophetic books how that the Bible is absolutely true and accurate through God telling His prophets what is going to happen in history and then making it happen hundreds of years later, so that people will know that God is real and alive and that His word is totally true.

Even most of what is recorded in the gospels concerning Christ is written for us. They are not instruction manuals for Christian belief and living. They are accounts of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus so that we may believe that He is the Son of God who died on the cross for us and rose from the dead to give us eternal life. His teaching was to unconverted Jews still under the Law. He did tell His disciples some things that will happen in their and our future, as information so that we can and will trust Him no matter what.

Much of what Paul, John, Peter, James, and Jude taught is to us. Their letters make up the instruction manual how we are to live for and serve the Lord. Some try and find some deeper spiritual meaning behind what Paul taught, but they are dreaming. Paul said what he meant and meant what he said, and his instructions to the churches were meant to be literally received and implemented. Peter said that those who wrest and twist what Paul wrote did that to their own destruction. So we can see what road those ones are on who try to put words into Paul's mouth that are not there in his literal writing.

Revelation was written to Christians during the reign of Domitian, and were suffering the worst persecution ever. It is written to show that Christ will have the final absolute victory in the end, and for those persecuted believers to get their eyes of the negative things that are happening to them, and to get their eyes on Christ who will always give them the victory when there seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Must a believer repent of his sins in order to saved?

What does James mean when he says
"a man is justified by WORKS and NOT by FAITH ALONE",
and
"faith without WORKS is dead" (James 2:24-26)?

A believer repents before he is saved,

repenting of being a sinner is just one aspect of that repentance, the law shows we are guilty, when we repent, we admit that guilt

but there are other aspects of true saving repentance.

As for James, He is speaking to hearers of the word. Not doers. He asked a question, if one CLAIMS to have faith yet is not a doer of the word (has no works), can that faith save them?

how can a dead faith, mere belief only person who has never repented have ever been saved?

James answer, paul’s answer, even johns answer is no. They have never been saved,

saying one has never been saved is hugely different than saying a person was saved , was made alive, was sealed with the spirit, and lost their way and lost their salvation, are not dead, and have lost the seal.
All things the Roman church teaches,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

According the stupidity of Sola Scriptura, any uneducated half-wit can read the Bible and arrive at the correct interpretation.

According to the stupidity of extra biblical theology, any uneducated half wit can be taught the Bible teaches anything anyone wants them to believe, because no one can use the Bible to test. No one can understand that all scripture is given so the man of God may be thoroughly completely lacking nothing, and all we have to do is tell them God tells us what you should believe, and held us as his priests.listen to us. Not The bible

 

[Enow]

So who has not been misled and has the one, correct interpretation of Scripture? You?

Between the CC and me? Let me ask you this. How would you be able to tell? When you go by indwelling Holy Spirit as to who is right as oppose to going by the CC to tell you who is right. So going by the CC to tell you who is right is not going by the scripture telling you it is the Holy Spirit that tells you who is right.

 

[Enow]

Thanks for the link. What a pity it's drivel written by yet another brainwashed, gullible and ignorant sucker.

With no counter information from you, that makes you as found wanting, brother.

 

[mailmandan]

According to the stupidity of extra biblical theology, any uneducated half wit can be taught the Bible teaches anything anyone wants them to believe, because no one can use the Bible to test. No one can understand that all scripture is given so the man of God may be thoroughly completely lacking nothing, and all we have to do is tell them God tells us what you should believe, and held us as his priests.listen to us. Not The bible

Amen! The concept of Tradition is a convenient excuse for the Roman Catholic magisterium to teach whatever they desire as if it is the Word of God, and without any accountability whatsoever. It is useless to protest that such teachings as papal infallibility and the Marian dogmas are absent from the pages of Scripture and even the writings of the early church. Tradition is their carte blanche. Tradition is the magician’s hat, out of which the Roman magisterium can pull any new theological rabbit and call it the Word of God!

Tradition - The Magician's Hat

 

[BreadOfLife]

The meaning of the word until has nothing to do with the passage I asked you a specific question what is the Bible mean when it says Joseph do not know mary until after the birth of Jesus before the birth of Jesus he didn't know who Mary was is that what you're claiming

That's absolutely ridiculous.
I never claimed any such thing.

Maybe you should go back and actually R*E*A*D the posts . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

According the stupidity of Sola Scriptura, any uneducated half-wit can read the Bible and arrive at the correct interpretation.

Exactly - and that's what has happened.

Tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant sects that ALL teach different doctrines because they ALL claim their interpretations are correct.

 

[Truther]

No, but I guarantee you that ancient language scholars of today are MUCH better-equipped to decipher all of the linguistic nuances of ancient Greek MUCH better than people in the 16th century.

There is MUCH more information available today than there was back then, Einstein . . .

LOL

In other words..."More info today about the language than the actual speakers of the language".

Very funny.

I guess modern archaeologists found an ancient Greek to English dictionary, huh?

Now they know more, huh?

LOL

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL
In other words..."More info today about the language than the actual speakers of the language".
Very funny.
I guess modern archaeologists found an ancient Greek to English dictionary, huh?
Now they know more, huh?
LOL

What an asinine statement.
The translators of the KJV weren't "actual speakers" of ancient Greek.
They were 16th century ENGLISH-speaking Greek scholars.

Stop embarrassing yourself already.
I feel bad for your kids . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Oh. Is this the Church that worships and prays to the pagan Queen of Heaven and has been corrupted by the pagan influence of Constantine in the 4th Century?

No - it's the Catholic Church if Matt. 16:8-19, Matt. 18:15-18, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23, Acts 9:31, Eph. 1:22-23, and 1 Tim. 3:15.

 

[Truther]

What an asinine statement.
The translators of the KJV weren't "actual speakers" of ancient Greek.
They were 16th century ENGLISH-speaking Greek scholars.

Stop embarrassing yourself already.
I feel bad for your kids . . .

Okay.

You just realized the older the translator the better.

Now, times that by 50, Catholic.