Are Protestants "saved? "

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen! When descriptive passages of scripture get confused with prescriptive passages of scripture, the end result is salvation by works. Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith in Christ, but not the essence of faith and not the means or basis by which we obtain salvation. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23)

Amen

these people who think God will recieve their works as payment for sin will have a rude awakening one days

 

[Eternally Grateful]

(Barbarian checks)

Matthew 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. [34] Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. [35] For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

[36] Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. [37] Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? [38] And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? [39] Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? [40] And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.


[41] Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. [42] For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. [43] I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. [44] Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? [45] Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.


[46] And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

Nope. He says your works determine that.



Probably why He says that one is justified by works and by faith. But as you see, none of that matters if you don't love Him and love your fellow man. That will save you. Theology will not save you, but a loving heart will.


you can’t earn your salvation by works.

Dude if your going to continue to ignore the passages I post, and keep posting the same PRESCRIPTiVE passages I have already explained.

then you are no better than the other who have no foundation to walk on and I will walk away

I am sick of people who refuse to discuss the word as a whole and think because they have one or two passages they think proves them right andproves everyone else wrong they have won the discussion

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If I have to be stuck on something, God's word seems like the right thing to me. Set your own desires aside and stick with His word.

Cafeteria Christians accept part of it, but not all of it. They pick and chose what parts of His word they will accept. If He tells you faith saves in one place and works save in another place, just accept it. And when he tells you that neither of these will save you, if you don't love God and your fellow man, believe that, too.

And it won't bother you any further.

Yet you can not even respond to Gods word I posted, which contradicts your interpretation of those passages

that’s all anyone who reads your words needs to know

 

[mailmandan]

Amen

these people who think God will recieve their works as payment for sin will have a rude awakening one days

Amen! Like these many people in Matthew 7:22 who will say Lord, Lord, have WE not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (The correct answer would have been Lord, Lord, didn't YOU die for my sins, was buried and rose again the third day to provide for me eternal life. I trust in YOU alone as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation.

In verse 23, we read that Jesus will profess to them, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their "attempted external obedience" (apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith and the blood of Christ) was stained with sin. *Seeking to obtain salvation by works is not the will of the Father.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. *John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen! Like these many people in Matthew 7:22 who will say Lord, Lord, have WE not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (The correct answer would have been Lord, Lord, didn't YOU die for my sins, was buried and rose again the third day to provide for me eternal life. I trust in YOU alone as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation.

In verse 23, we read that Jesus will profess to them, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their "attempted external obedience" (apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith and the blood of Christ) was stained with sin. *Seeking to obtain salvation by works is not the will of the Father.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. *John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

the OT proved only one thing grants redemption or atonement was blood sacrifice

these people thinking these works will cause god to redeem or wash their sins away have a total misunderstanding of Gods word

 

[Yehren]

Yet you can not even respond to Gods word I posted

I showed you how it didn't conflict at all with His word in James 2, where He tells you that you are justified by works and faith alike. Didn't read it?

which contradicts your interpretation of those passages

It's God's word you're objecting to. I get that. But you need to just accept what He's telling you.

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.


19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.


20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?


22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?


23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.


24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

That’s all anyone who reads your words and God's words, needs to know. This is why Martin Luther wanted to have the Book of James removed from the Bible. He correctly argued that it contradicted his new doctrine of "faith only."

The Believer's Study Bible states that Luther, at least for a period of time, thought that the book of James contradicted what (he believed) was the Apostle Paul's teaching that justification came by faith alone (article on the canonicity of the manuscript). The Bible Knowledge Commentary admits, in its preface to this Biblical book, that it was "well known" that Martin Luther had problems with this New Testament work.
...
Those who are believers in God, if they want to worship him in undefiled purity, must not only keep themselves "unspotted" from the world but also do good works! This acceptable way of living a Christian life is not only supported in the Old Testament (see Isaiah 58:5 - 7, etc.), but was a regular theme of Jesus' teachings. It is primarily because of its sharp focus on works being a critical part of salvation that Martin Luther did not like the book of James.
Why did Martin Luther reject James?

 

[Yehren]

Dude if your going to continue to ignore the passages I post,

I showed you how they do not contradict God's word that we are justified by works and by faith.

and keep posting the same PRESCRIPTiVE passages I have already explained.

They are the word of God. Handwaving by calling them names, will be ineffective.

then you are no better than the other who have no foundation to walk on and I will walk away

Like all the rest of us, you can accept what He says in James, or you can reject it. Your choice.

Because you have one or two passages you think prove you right, you refuse to discuss the word as a whole and think it proves everyone else wrong and therefore, you have won the discussion

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I showed you how it didn't conflict at all with His word in James 2, where He tells you that you are justified by works and faith alike. Didn't read it?



It's God's word you're objecting to. I get that. But you need to just accept what He's telling you.

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.


19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.


20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?


22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?


23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.


24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

That’s all anyone who reads your words and God's words, needs to know. This is why Martin Luther wanted to have the Book of James removed from the Bible. He correctly argued that it contradicted his new doctrine of "faith only."

The Believer's Study Bible states that Luther, at least for a period of time, thought that the book of James contradicted what (he believed) was the Apostle Paul's teaching that justification came by faith alone (article on the canonicity of the manuscript). The Bible Knowledge Commentary admits, in its preface to this Biblical book, that it was "well known" that Martin Luther had problems with this New Testament work.
...
Those who are believers in God, if they want to worship him in undefiled purity, must not only keep themselves "unspotted" from the world but also do good works! This acceptable way of living a Christian life is not only supported in the Old Testament (see Isaiah 58:5 - 7, etc.), but was a regular theme of Jesus' teachings. It is primarily because of its sharp focus on works being a critical part of salvation that Martin Luther did not like the book of James.
Why did Martin Luther reject James?

When your ready to discuss romans 4 and what paul said come talk to me

until then I am done

I already explained in context how James 4 does not support your theory. Take it or leave it

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I showed you how they do not contradict God's word that we are justified by works and by faith.



They are the word of God. Handwaving by calling them names, will be ineffective.



Like all the rest of us, you can accept what He says in James, or you can reject it. Your choice.

Because you have one or two passages you think prove you right, you refuse to discuss the word as a whole and think it proves everyone else wrong and therefore, you have won the discussion

Yawn

you have done no such thing

good day sir

 

[Yehren]

When your ready to discuss romans 4 and what paul said come talk to me

I already showed you what he said, and why it doesn't contradict God's word that we are justified by works as well as by faith. If you can show us how it does contradict James 2, let us see that.

until then I am done

Yep. If you can put together a cogent argument for your assertion come on back and show it to us.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I already showed you what he said, and why it doesn't contradict God's word that we are justified by works as well as by faith. If you can show us how it does contradict James 2, let us see that.



Yep. If you can put together a cogent argument for your assertion come on back and show it to us.

Romans 4 says we are not justified by works period.

as does EPH 1

it’s done. James us speaking of those who claim to be saved not those who are saved

end of discussion

 

[Yehren]

Romans 4 says we are not justified by works period.

No does not. But God in James 2 does say we are justified by works.
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

[QUOTE ]end of discussion[/QUOTE]

Yep. God's word beats anyone's reasoning.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No does not. But God in James 2 does say we are justified by works.
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

[QUOTE ]end of discussion

Yep. God's word beats anyone's reasoning.[/QUOTE]
Yep it does

and it does not support your theory

 

[Yehren]

As you now realize, God says:
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

That's good enough for me. It should be good enough for you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As you now realize, God says:
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

That's good enough for me. It should be good enough for you.

Romans 4:2–4 (NKJV): For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt


Quite clear

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Yes, as Paul says, if you lack charity, all your works and faith are for nothing. But I don't think that everyone or even a majority of those who deny this, are Satanists.

I am pretty sure they are just in error, and are good Christian people.

Not Satanist as in a Satanist who is leading people astray but of or under such a power or deceptions.

Good Christian people ? Worthy maybe be the point. not good, as remember one claimed Jesus to be good and Jesus reply ?

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I have seen blind faith in abundance, but such is worthless as such the weeds consume easy as pie.
I remember as a child in Church they would say just believe, blind faith ? I said something must have roots for me to grasp hold of to have faith in such or it's not truly faith.
So because one claims that a sparkplug works in theory, well that does not mean that one will work. so I am given one and I just have faith that such will work, but I do not know anything in depth about such a thing. then how would I know how to tell a dud from a worn out one or even the correct heat range or correct type. so it's best to truly understand the foundations of such a thing, or if you were selling such a product you know in depth the product it is that you are giving a customer is what they truly need in fact. not to mention can they rely on your knowledge is truly worthy.

 

[Yehren]

As you now realize, God says:
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

That's good enough for me. It should be good enough for you.

Romans 4:2–4 (NKJV): For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

Let's see what God says about that...

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Quite clear

Yep. We are justfied by works and faith, as God tells you. I think you should believe Him.

 

[Episkopos]

As you now realize, God says:
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

That's good enough for me. It should be good enough for you.



Let's see what God says about that...

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?



Yep. We are justfied by works and faith, as God tells you. I think you should believe Him.

Amen! God can justify us by faith because He sees the works in advance. But people here want to justify themselves based on their beliefs....which is an idea that is very foreign to truth.

 

[Paul Christensen]

The Bible does not mention Protestant nor Catholic. Nor does it mention Lutheran, Baptist, Pentecostal, Jehova’s Witnesses, Mormons or any other name but Christian. The New Testament states believers being called Christian three times. Furthermore, Paul the apostle who wrote the majority of the New Testament stated that there is only ONE faith; thereby making all others false. He even said to not allow divisions which are denominations.
Now, is it possible for an individual to make it to Heaven though they attend a false religion? It is possible, but not probable. It’s hard enough to get to Heaven with the right instruction manual. The wrong instructions will most likely lead you down the wrong path. That’s why Jesus warned us of the straight and narrow path, as few will travel it.

I agree!
Paul address the issue of factions in 1 Corinthians, where the church was being split up into those who followed Paul, and others following Apollos, and still others following Peter (Cephas). Paul says that because of this he couldn't talk to them as mature believers, but as carnal men still thinking like normal man of the world.

So, instead we have denominations, all saying they are closer to the cutting edge of what God is doing than the others. If Paul were here today, he would have the same rebuke - that such people are being just like natural people still in the world, and are just carnal babes who can't take any strong spiritual food than baby formula.

So, Catholics maintaining that they are the true church, and some Pentecostal groups saying they are in the centre of God's will and that anyone who doesn't subscribe to their theology is not part of the body of Christ. We have Calvinists who say they have the truth and look on Arminians as false believers. These are as Paul describes: "Carnal babes with one foot still in the world".

Therefore, along with Paul, we can say, "Who is the pope? Who is the Archbishop of Canterbury? Who was John Wesley? Who was Jonathan Edwards? Who is John MacArthur? Who is your pastor? Who is your favourite mentor? Who in the whole of your Christian life is the person you look up to and respect the most? Who am I? Who are you?

What did Paul say about himself, Apollos and Peter? Just servants of God who introduced us to faith in Christ. The word for "servant" in Greek means a galley slave on the lower deck, a nobody who had a job to do, someone who drives the night-cart and empties the excrement pots. This is the meaning of "the treasure in earthen vessels". The earthen vessel was a clay pot to contain the household trash.

So, the Pope, Archbishop of Canterbury, and everyone else who appears to be elevated above the common "herd" are nothing more than earthen trash cans and excrement pots as far as God is concerned. It is "Christ in us, the hope of glory". This is the wonderful grace of God, that the Holy Spirit can come and live in our mortal bodies, which are nothing but clay trash pots.

So, denominations are nothing. They are just buildings holding clay trash pots. The prerequisite for salvation is that one believes that Jesus is the Son of God, and that He rose from the dead, and is willing to be baptised in the name of Christ as a public confession of his commitment to Christ. That transcends denominations and particular man-made "badges" and labels. Denominations are wood, hay, and stubble, and will burn away when Jesus comes again, and those who are committed more to their denomination than to Christ will be left naked and guilty before God.