Not by works - but by faith

[Faither]

@Decopymope
@Paul Christensen
@ Eternally Greatful

You are asking What is Faith that results in receiving the Spirit of Christ?

Faith is a Gift from God.
The Gift is given a man, in measures. (Amounts).
The measures (amounts) of The Gift of Faith,
Is proportionate to the individuals Effort, of Hearing (reading) and learning ABOUT the Lord God.

Hearing, (reading), Learning About the Lord God (or anything else), is called:
Being "enlightened".

It is a Beginning of a relationship between the: Teacher and the student, about a particular SUBJECT.

Doesn't matter WHO the teacher IS or the student;
Mommy the teacher, her child the student;
Mistress the school teacher, pupil the student;
Cleric the teacher, congregant the student;
Word of God the teacher, listening crowd the student.

When the teacher IS teaching; and the student Hearing...
Enlightment is occuring.

The believability of what the teacher IS Teaching, Lands squarely on the student to Accept the Enlightment and believe it of Not.

Whether or Not the student Accepts believing the Enlightment, is at the moment; irrelevant.
The Enlightment HAS occurED.

Pertaining specifically to the Word of God;
It IS taught; the Word of God, IS absolute TRUTH.
An individual (student), is taught, IF "Hearing", to then Verify, what they "Hear", against what IS "written" and Approved, by God.

A "student", still has his own freewill, to believe it or Not.

A "student", believing or not, has still been enlightened...and pertaining to God, that same student, BEGINNER or MATURE, is being Gifted with MEASURES of FAITH from God, so that the Student CAN, believe and trust the Word of God.

Humans are Naturally Curious...
They all can naturally want to KNOW About new Subjects...
AND
Humans are ALSO, Naturally curious about the WHY factor of UNDERSTANDING, what they HEAR...
AND (society wise to be impatient, and many times, Taught Entitled to receive the UNDERSTANDING, "Before", FREELY, choosing To Believe or Trust the enlightment of the knowledge they are receiving.

Pertaining to God...that is where the Gift of Faith comes in...
Hear little, read little, receive little MEASURES of Faith...receiving the gift to Believe; without YET Understanding.

Continue hearing, reading, learning, being enlightened, believing, the Gift of Faith Increases.

Stop ^^... and the Gift of Faith stops being given.

Return...and the Gift of Faith AGAIN is given.

Do not Return...The Gift of Faith, remains ceased to be given...and the Result for Such a person IS: they Have Fallen from "FAITH".

Faith from God is an Offering.
Humans have the FREEWILL to accept or Reject any Offering God Offers.

Faither - you asked questions of an incomplete nature making a response you were hoping for guesswork.
And further commented...
Acceptance...ONLY pertains to God.
Disagree. Acceptance of ANY contractual agreement pertains specifically to the parties identified in the Contract.
In this case-
God Offers... an individual can Accept the terms and Agree, or Not.

Cooper - you have made your objection to the Lords Offering and Acceptance of an individual as a ONCE made Contract...between the Lord God AND an individual...can Thereafter be Become a Broken Contract.
Then you give Scriptures (of falling away from Faith as your evidence).
The Scriptures of Falling AWAY from Faith...do NOT Pertain to or Apply to; an individual WHO has Already made a Contractural Agreement with the Lord.
The Warnings about Falling Away from Faith...are TO: individuals WHO, have NOT Yet Committed TO a binding Contract With the Lord God.
The urgency For a man TO Commit...is Because:
The Contract Between a man Accepting the Lords Offering...MUST be Accomplished While the man IS ALIVE. And there is that little FACT, that a man does not know the second he shall no long BE ALIVE.

Jesus Offered all men, the Opportunity to Receive their Justification for Salvation NOW, any second of any day, and that Offering has stood to every man for over 2.000 years.

You preach, you keep running the race, AS IF, you are still waiting to the End of your natural life TO SEE, "IF" you have "accomplished" living a natural life, acceptable to God, to Justify Him "giving" you Salvation.
(You appear to be "hoping" for, Salvation),
Whereas a man, IN Christ, does not HOPE For, what Christ Offered, and the man, chose to Receive, Once and Forever.

It is not Boasting to claim to have Received Salvation.
Boasting would be a man claiming to TO Have AND "keeping" his Received Salvation...by his own power and efforts of WORKS.
The Fact IS:
The Keeping of a man's Received Salvation, IS solely BY the indwelling POWER "OF GOD".
And the "WORKS" of a man, DO NOT, "GET or KEEP" a man's salvation.
WORKS sole purpose are TO Glorify God.
And "WORKS" that DO, "Glorify God", are Rewarded.
And "WORKS" that DO NOT, Glorify God, shall be burned.
You have to wonder, HOW a man, "not having receivED Salvation"... Can DO WORKS to Glorify God.

OSAS - yes.
Once I Heartfully accepted The Lords Offering,
(WHICH by my Freewill, I did),
I Trust the Lord IS Faithful and His Word is True, and Forever, He and I shall be yoked together.

Glory to God,
Taken

Your reply is based completely on the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing. This mistranslation changes the object of Faith from God Himself, a real living person, to God's word and promises. Huge difference!

 

[mailmandan]

Enlightenment is simply receiving Knowledge.
Men receiving Enlightenment About God...by His Grace are also receiving measures of faith....
That is not a person making a commitment or receiving Salvation.

You keep ignoring the "VOW of Heartful Commitment"
^^^ Without ^THAT^...anyone can hear, learn, follow, believe one day, doubt the next, that is Not A true Vow of Confession.

That ismerely being introduced, and learning...and Absolutely...they are "Tasting", getting a sample of OF Gods Grace Offered them...
And Absolutely at any time...
Without a Vow of Heartful Confession, THEY Can Fall Away "from Faith"...
^ That man has to rely on his OWN weak natural power, (easily influenced by the World), to keep faithful to God...and it's a Fail!

In regards to the words, "once enlightened" which means to bring to light, to shed light upon or to cause light to shine upon some object, in the sense of illuminating it. John 1:9 describes Jesus as the "true Light," giving light "to every man," but this can't mean the light of salvation, because not every man is saved. The light either leads to receiving Jesus Christ or produces condemnation in those who reject the light.

In regards to "tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come," they may have tasted in such a way as to give them a distinct impression of what was tasted, yet they still fell away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept what is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it." We do not merely taste into one Spirit, but drink into one Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:13)

Those who fall away certainly could have been affiliated with believers in the church. Such people certainly may have experienced sorrow for sin, heard and understood the gospel and may have given some assent to it and have become associated with the work of the Holy Spirit while around believers and have tasted the heavenly gift and the powers of the age to come. They may have been exposed to the true preaching of the word of God, yet have simply tasted and stopped there. The experiences in Hebrews 6:4-6 are all preliminary to those decisive beginning stages of becoming a Christian, yet some draw back to perdition after receiving the 'knowledge' of the truth and do not believe to the saving of the soul, as we see in Hebrews 10:26-39.

 

[Faither]

So Jesus has drawn them, they know all of scripture but claim no ability to change, repent or walk the road of a cleansed pure heart?

Some in this state ask do they need to love others or be open and honest.

But of course without a forgiven heart, broken and remade in Christ's example the question is actually why am I not saved?

Each one has to call out to God in despiration knowing our lostness yet asking God to bring His solution. He has promised to answer, and it is for each to experience. I can only share my own, and believe others can experience this gift from God. Thank you Jesus.

And everything is a gift from God as in a noun, a person, place , or thing. But the application, the corresponding verb is not! He gives us the ability to faithe, but we have to choose to do it, we have to engage our will Continually to sustain it.

 

[Taken]

So Jesus has drawn them, they know all of scripture but claim no ability to change, repent or walk the road of a cleansed pure heart?

Some in this state ask do they need to love others or be open and honest.

But of course without a forgiven heart, broken and remade in Christ's example the question is actually why am I not saved?

Each one has to call out to God in despiration knowing our lostness yet asking God to bring His solution. He has promised to answer, and it is for each to experience. I can only share my own, and believe others can experience this gift from God. Thank you Jesus.

True that...your choices and experience apply to you exclusively...and the same with every other individual.

The awesome thing About Scripture IS, It teaches the Application and Expected outcome For Every single individual.

So while ALL Scripture IS TRUE...not every single Word in Scripture Will APPLY TO all individual.

The Lord Offers a multitude of things...
From a hardened heart...to a new heart filled with His Truth.
From an eternal Life With Him Forever...to a Forever destroyed life eternally WITHOUT Him.

And God is absolutely Just...that His Power Will Accomplish that All Will Receive what they FREELY Choose.

Agree, every individual, makes his own freewill choice AND can speak his own choices for himself.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Cooper]

Coop That word " believeth" is a mistranslation.
The invitation isn't to " believe" in Him, the invitation is to personally surrender our lives to Him and live a life inspired by such surrender.

I quoted 1 verse and you were right to say there is more to salvation than believing. Here are 10 steps that require a change of heart. First we need to :-

1.) Hear the “good news” (i.e. the gospel) of Jesus Christ (Romans 10:14)

2.) Realize we are a sinner. “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23).

3.) Have faith.
Hebrews 11:6; “without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.”
Acts 8:37; Mark 16:16; John 8:24)

4.) Repent of our sins.
(Luke 13:3,5; Acts 2:38; Mark 10:15)
My friend, “God . . . commandeth all men everywhere to repent” (Acts 17:30). This repentance is a change of mind that agrees with God that one is a sinner, and also agrees with what Jesus did for us on the Cross.

“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” (Romans 10:13).

5.) Confess faith in Jesus Christ (Acts 8:36-37; Romans 10:9)

In Acts 16:30-31, the Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas: “ . . . ‘Sirs, what must I do to be saved?’ And they said, ‘Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved . . . .’ ”

6.) Put our trust in Jesus.
“But God loved you so much He gave His only begotten Son, Jesus, to bear your sin and die in your place. “ . . . He hath made Him [Jesus, Who knew no sin] to be sin for us . . . that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21).

Jesus had to shed His blood and die. “For the life of the flesh is in the blood” (Lev. 17:11). “ . . . without shedding of blood is no remission [pardon]” (Hebrews 9:22).

“ . . . God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8).

“But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name” (John 1:12).

7.) Believe Jesus Christ is the son of God. “So the eunuch answered Philip and said, “I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?” Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

8.) Be baptized (in water) for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:37-41; 1Peter 3:21; John 3:3-5; Acts 22:16; Romans 6:3-8; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:26-27; Mark 16:15-16; Acts 8:34-39; Titus 3:5; Ephesians 4:5)

9.) Follow Jesus for the rest of your life. (No falling away. Growing cold would not be backsliding.)

10.) The promise.
“But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name” (John 1:12).
.

 

[mailmandan]

There is more to salvation than simply believing. Here are 10 steps that require a work of the heart. We must:-

1.) Hear the “good news” (i.e. the gospel) of Jesus Christ (Romans 10:14)

2.) Realize we are a sinner. “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23).

3.) Have faith.
Hebrews 11:6; “without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.”
Acts 8:37; Mark 16:16; John 8:24)

4.) Repent of our sins.
(Luke 13:3,5; Acts 2:38; Mark 10:15)
My friend, “God . . . commandeth all men everywhere to repent” (Acts 17:30). This repentance is a change of mind that agrees with God that one is a sinner, and also agrees with what Jesus did for us on the Cross.

“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” (Romans 10:13).

5.) Confess faith in Jesus Christ (Acts 8:36-37; Romans 10:9)

In Acts 16:30-31, the Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas: “ . . . ‘Sirs, what must I do to be saved?’ And they said, ‘Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved . . . .’ ”

6.) Put our trust in Jesus.
“But God loved you so much He gave His only begotten Son, Jesus, to bear your sin and die in your place. “ . . . He hath made Him [Jesus, Who knew no sin] to be sin for us . . . that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21).

Jesus had to shed His blood and die. “For the life of the flesh is in the blood” (Lev. 17:11). “ . . . without shedding of blood is no remission [pardon]” (Hebrews 9:22).

“ . . . God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8).

“But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name” (John 1:12).

7.) Believe Jesus Christ is the son of God. “So the eunuch answered Philip and said, “I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?” Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

8.) Be baptized (in water) for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:37-41; 1Peter 3:21; John 3:3-5; Acts 22:16; Romans 6:3-8; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:26-27; Mark 16:15-16; Acts 8:34-39; Titus 3:5; Ephesians 4:5)

9.) Follow Jesus for the rest of your life.

10.) The promise.
“But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name” (John 1:12).
.

Your 10 step plan of salvation culminates in salvation by faith + works, which also explains why you are so hostile towards OSAS.

 

[Taken]

Your reply is based completely on the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing. This mistranslation changes the object of Faith from God Himself, a real living person, to God's word and promises. Huge difference!

Disagree.

Believe, Belief, Believing is the Action of an individual....

The Belief basics stem from the individuals:

Natural Mind...
** Logical ciphering between limited known options

Supernatural (Gods Breath infused) Soul...
** Feelings between Right and Wrong

Natural Spirit..
** Individuals Absolute Truth in his Natural Heart.

A natural man... is in constant Conflict...within himself...
Because; his MIND, Soul, Spirit...are in constant conflict to always be in agreement.

A soul can Know it is Wrong to lie, deceive, cheat...while the mind can plot a lie, deception, cheating, and the spirit be complicating the joy or sorrow of the outcome; dependant on What the individual SAYS or DOES.

The WHOLE theme of The Lord Gods Message...is HE IS All Knowing, All Powerful...And Only BY and THROUGH Him can a man be MADE Whole...
Mind, Soul, Spirit of a man, in Complete Harmony within himself, in the SAME Likeness AS The Lord God Almighty, is in Complete Harmony within Himself.

It is a matter of..."IF" an individual Desires such a harmony For himself...Christ Jesus...
(Christ, the Power of God)
(Jesus the Word of God)
Has Offered every Individual, Through Him, to
Receive such Harmony.

The knowledge is the learning the harmony for a man IS possible AND Offered, by God, through Christ.
The enlightenment is God giving MEASURES of FAITH to accomplish the Making of a man to Become MADE Whole.

The Belief is a man's option to Trust the Offer, and begin in small MEASURES experiencing the results.

God does not MAKE a man Believe.
God sets the stage So a man CAN believe.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Cooper]

" Believing " is a choice, something you do, why is that exempt from your "no work" theology?

Do you know the Greek word that is used to define how Faith is applied in relation to the living God?

Work would be caring for the sick for example, but good deeds/works do not save us from sin. An atheist will do good works but without belief in God, there is no salvation. What is needed is a change of heart and mind, but this cannot be said to be physical work.

We are saved by faith. This is the working of the spirit, the evidence of which is seen in our physical works, but the salvic work has already been completed in our heart.
.

 

[Faither]

Here's a question for taken, dcopyman, and you to coop.

Do you realize your preaching an " incomplete" gospel? And with respect, that makes it a false gospel! The part your leaving out would contradict your " believing."

 

[Faither]

This would mean your only " believing" in part of the gospel, not the entire gospel.

 

[Taken]

There is more to salvation than simply believing. Here are 10 steps that require a change of heart. We must:-

1.) Hear the “good news” (i.e. the gospel) of Jesus Christ (Romans 10:14)

I have spoken Before extensively on ORDER which in Scripture is Simply called "WAY".

Gen 6:
[12] And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

Later we learn God Sent His WAY to Earth in the Likeness as an Earthly man, TO Teach Earthly men, Gods WAY. .

John 14:
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

What IS the meaning of "WAY"?

In a nutshell The Lord God revealed what HIS WAY means:

Gen 18:
[19] For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, (IS) to do justice and judgment; .

How can an individual DO, what IS Just, Make Judgement of what IS Just...WITHOUT full Knowledge of ALL Knowledge?

Cleverly God has Offered mankind, An Opportunity to BE INDWELT with HIS ALL Knowing Word of Truth and His All Powerful Spirit .... AND His SEED of Quickening a man's natural spirit to a Spiritual spirit, being MADE capable to Any time, of any day, receive HIS knowledge AND an additional GIFT of His Understanding of His Knowledge.

That...Gift transforms a natural man, while remaining in his natural living Flesh...into a new spiritual creature...who Spiritually Lives IN Christ' Jesus' Risen and Glorified Body.

That Gift is NOT Given, and THEN, in Jeopardy of EvER being Taken Away.

That Gift is NOT maintained and KEPT, by a man's WORKS.

That Gift IS maintained and KEPT solely by Gods POWER.

To claim that Gift of God, is Maintained and KEPT by a "man's efforts of WORKS"...
is to teach a man has the Power of Control OVER and ABOVE God Power OVER His OWN Gifts....which is not true.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Faither]

Are any of the three of you interested in the piece your missing?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So Jesus has drawn them, they know all of scripture but claim no ability to change, repent or walk the road of a cleansed pure heart?

Some in this state ask do they need to love others or be open and honest.

But of course without a forgiven heart, broken and remade in Christ's example the question is actually why am I not saved?

Each one has to call out to God in despiration knowing our lostness yet asking God to bring His solution. He has promised to answer, and it is for each to experience. I can only share my own, and believe others can experience this gift from God. Thank you Jesus.

Can you do me a favor?

when I discuss how one is saved or born again can you cease from trying to insert what happens after one is saved in the conversation. That is a different topic altogether

I never stated what you claimed. So why would you argue i did?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The word is" pisteuo" in the Greek.
Vines definition of pisteuo, " pisteuo is a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. Producing a full acknowledgement of Gods revelation of truth."

Strong's: "pisteuo means NOT just to believe."

The Greek language doesn't have the word " believe " in their language. There is only pisteuo, Faith moving forwards, towards God in this case. Or " Apisteuo" Faith moving in reverse,away from God. No middle or neutral ground where one is only believing.

Pisteuo, or NT saving Faith is an act, based upon a Belief, sustained by confidence,a verb. The only act that saves is a Continually surrendered life, Based upon the belief that God will accept the surrendered life, sustained by confidence in making all the many daily decisions that support the fact our lives are nolonger ours anymore, but God's now.

This is the correct and narrow path.

we already had this discussion. I have no desire to go back down this rabbit trail again

you were proven wrong in this definition by multiple people. Let it go

 

[Faither]

we already had this discussion. I have no desire to go back down this rabbit trail again

you were proven wrong in this definition by multiple people. Let it go

No, just got to let you go.

 

[Cooper]

Here's a question for taken, dcopyman, and you to coop.

Do you realize your preaching an " incomplete" gospel? And with respect, that makes it a false gospel! The part your leaving out would contradict your " believing."

What did I say in paragraph 7 of post 385?
.

 

[Faither]

What did I say in paragraph 7 of post 385?
.

I read it! It's incomplete!

 

[Taken]

Here's a question for taken, dcopyman, and you to coop.

Do you realize your preaching an " incomplete" gospel? And with respect, that makes it a false gospel! The part your leaving out would contradict your " believing."

Do you realize, if you were expecting the Whole Gospel, it would require posting the Entire Scriptures?

With respect, Believing is an Option every single individual is afforded...and the individual has the FREEWILL to choose to accept or deny belief.

God Begins by Revealing the Knowledge About Himself...thereafter an individual begins BY hearing the Knowledge About God.
Since an individual cannot even choose to accept or reject that which he has not yet heard.

Every individual is naturally born without having heard...thus having not known the knowledge exists...thus is born IN Sin, for not having freely Chosen to Believe.

And every individual, who Has heard, and freely chosen to Not Believe Remains IN Sin, Against God.

And such has Gods Plan EFFECTED thousands of years ago...and very Successful...the Whole World has been given the hearing About God...whether they elected TO GO to a Church and Hear, or purchase a Bible and read...or through an acquaintance, tv, radio, internet, strangers, mail, marquees, missionaries...it is World Wide...and the FREEWILL of the individual to Believe what they hear...still hinges on the individuals FREEWILL choice.

It is not rocket science, what the consequences are for what an individual chooses to Believe...about anything; God Himself or otherwise.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Faither]

Do you realize, if you were expecting the Whole Gospel, it would require posting the Entire Scriptures?

With respect, Believing is an Option every single individual is afforded...and the individual has the FREEWILL to choose to accept or deny belief.

God Begins by Revealing the Knowledge About Himself...thereafter an individual beggins BY hearing the Knowledge About God.
Since an individual cannot even choose to accept or reject that which he has not yet heard.

Every individual is naturally born without having heard...thus having not known the knowledge exists...thus is born IN Sin, for not having freely Chosen to Believe.

And every individual, who Has heard, and freely chosen to Not Believe Remains IN Sin, Against God.

And such has Gods Plan EFFECTED thousands of years ago...and very Successful...the Whole World has been given the hearing About God...whether they elected TO GO to a Church and Hear, or purchase a Bible and read...or through an acquaintance, tv, radio, internet, strangers, mail, marquees, missionaries...it is World Wide...and the FREEWILL of the individual to Believe what they hear...still hinges on the individuals FREEWILL choice.

It is not rocket science, what the consequences are for what an individual chooses to Believe...about anything; God Himself or otherwise.

Glory to God,
Taken

The gospel as in " the good news".

 

[Cooper]

I read it! It's incomplete!

I said "Believe Jesus Christ is the son of God" and then quoted scripture. How is that incomplete?
.

 

[Faither]

What did Christ say to do whenever this gospel is preached?