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Featured Not by works - but by faith

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by FollowHim, Feb 24, 2020.

  1. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    G, you have made it plain that you expect to get some magical new body in some miraculous supernatural way at some point, and I’m not really interested in splitting hairs with you OK. By all means believe that if you like
     
  2. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    Ok, Let me know that interpretation.

    Spell it out for me
     
  3. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    ok, I look forward to it

    Just one question. Paul spoke of a future event,

    I thought Paul repented many years earlier when Jesus confronted him on the road to damascus
     
  4. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    oh we can not?

    I see it in Daniel 2, Daniel 7, Daniel 9, Matt 24, These are but a few verses there are many many more.
     
  5. Tong2020

    Tong2020 Active Member

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    Greetings Rei!

    First, let me tell you, I am not Catholic. Second, let me tell you that you seem to have not gotten the point of my question.

    I asked "Did you received God's grace of salvation by good works?". Your answer is "Not quite" and "Catholics believe it comes with baptism. We don't call it salvation as that ultimately happens after death. We call it sanctifying grace, the grace of Christ.". In my understanding of what you say there, you are sanctified rather than saved, and that by baptism. In that case, that means that your answer to my question is NO. For according to your belief, you have received no salvation to begin with. And so, there is no salvation to lose.

    You speak of a sanctifying grace, that is, the grace of Christ. Can you tell us what is that grace all about? Can you point to where that is found in the Bible? This way I can understand what it is you believe better.

    You said, "There is a statement which defines salvation in terms that both parties agree on. Do u know it? I can find it if u want". Do so, so I could check it out.

    You said "If u live a life of bad deeds the Catholics say that u can fall from grace.." Firstly, I like to make it clear that the issue I have here is not about whether one has to live a life of bad deeds or of good deeds. Of course, the Christian should live a life of good deeds. So, having said that, let me go lay down the issue. In my understanding so far of what grace you refer to is the love of Christ. It's just like you saying that works (bad) could separate you from the love of Christ. That is the issue. I had just given you what the chosen and divinely inspired Apostle Paul said and had written regarding that, and I quote again.

    Romans 8:38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    Can you tell me what you understand Paul was saying there in Romans 8:38?

    Tong
    R0013
     
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  6. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    so you cannot find it.... well don't try to put words into someone else mouth. and you did it again, "you have made it plain that you expect to get some magical new body in some miraculous supernatural way at some point". I never said that either. that's in your own mind concering someone else. now if you cannot quote me correctly, don't quote me at all. final.

    now as for bodies, this is what I believe, 2 Corinthians 5:1 "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

    Good day.

    PICJAG
     
  7. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    Look first u accused me of making it a Catholic vs Protestant thing. Don't now how so i said goodbye
    Now u say im making it a Protestant thing. Again I don't know how

    I tried my best to present the doctrine which is agreed upon by both the reformed and Catholic churches
    To me their the same. Where u see disagreement i see agreement.
    Its not worth the argument, i hate arguments about scripture

    Anyway God Bless
     
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  8. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    Look I don't want to get into it. I can see the anti-Catholic wave approaching and im getting out of the way.

    This is the joint declaration on the doctrine of justification made by the RCC and reformed churches in 1999 which u asked for
    By grace alone, in faith in Christ`s saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works

    So again, for me we are in agreement. Any little detail ur not happy with is fine with me, ok

    God Bless
     
  9. Tong2020

    Tong2020 Active Member

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    Anti-Catholic? Where is that coming from? Sure not from my post. I was trying to have a conversation with you, which started in post #646, in the following link: Not by works - but by faith

    You freely posted. And doing so, you threw in what's in your heart, by the words you've written. And I am trying to understand what is in your heart that you have expressed in your words and perhaps agree or not, and thrown in a few comments. Now, you post obviously to be read by others. Mind you, this is a public forum. If you only want a reply in your post that says what you want to hear, then I am sorry to say, a forum like this seems not to be where you should be. So, I suggest that, you should consider to have a more open mind and heart than you already have. So, would you please reconsider responding to my previous post to you properly and address the issues and the questions brought up there for you to answer? Thanks.

    Let me go on and respond to what you say there with regards the joint declaration on the doctrine of justification made by the RCC and reformed churches in 1999. First, that is no scriptures. Second, that is a joint declaration between RCC and "reformed churches" ~ who are these reformed churches? The point is, this joint declaration you are presenting here have nothing to do with the issue/s I brought up to you based on what you posted. While there is a sort of agreement there, the fact is, there is a divide and difference between what Catholics believe and what protestants believe. And it shows right here between you and me, that is why we have this kind of conversation. And this joint declaration does not at all say that we are now all in agreement. Besides, such a declaration only is good and stands up to what is declared. And what is declared there is with the matter of "acceptance" by God which is really different from the matter of the "salvation" of God.

    Tong
    R0014
     
  10. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    ha stop you do not either lol
    ok well i have no facts ok, no proof, no truth whatsoever. So, with that in mind,
    by way of being inclusive, surely, like he often does; iow Paul spoke of a future event for us, that he had maybe already experienced, or maybe he had in view future generations?

    So, all the "flesh cannot inherit" simply means "your spirit has to inherit," and basically the same with all of the other flowery phrases that, if you interpret incorrectly, have a v somewhere else that will directly contradict your interpretation, a la going to heaven or becoming immortal, and the "last trump will sound" well we would have to agree on what and when that is first i guess.

    Galileans ("circuit riders," possibly) why do you Stand there looking up at the sky?
    ok, and the v that makes your interpretation of those moot is We do not yet know what we will become, There is only One Immortal, No one has ever gone up to heaven, All go to the same place, You and your sons will be here with me, et al
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
  11. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    lol, with the "final" i mean are you stamping yur little foot too g? Now unless you have recently recanted somewhere, you have many times inferred or directly stated everything i said up there, right?
    So i mean pls ok, im not meaning to misquote you or put words in your mouth at all, maybe your beliefs have changed since we talked last? Shall i go back in your feed and find a quote? Bc im pretty sure i can do just that eh
    ok, fine, so what g, you arent going to become an immortal regardless of how you interpret that i guess, right. Colin Kaepernick maybe, us prolly not
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
  12. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    I like this point. When I read scripture, various points leap out at me, not because I choose them, they appear.
    Sometimes others share their view, which does not speak to me. I cannot say at some later point I would not agree with the sharer, simply the passage does not often speak to me that way. Sometimes I will definitely disagree but this is often for very specific other reasons, often not mentioned, but I am not here to change anothers perspective.

    Now if I believe by sharing my perspective the other party will change their view, it seems there is some value in doing this. Some seem to feel just be defining a perspective their way, that is the way everyone has to agree it should be viewed.
    I found this technique used most strongly from muslims. They would say a passage from the Koran means such and such a thing. If they were an Imam, you just accepted that was the way you should see it, dictatorially. In some church environments some teach like this. I have seen believers respond like this, truth is as told, rather than discovered and explored.

    I note they often use definitive statements, "no", "you are wrong", "this is the way you should see it".
    Once one is trained in critical thinking, one sees every discussion is founded on assumptions and logic, which must be connected and explored. And it is in discovering these foundations, authority and truth is founded.

    Occasionally I see the subtle inter-linking ideas which form a vast whole of reality. It makes one very humble to see everything is linked, interwoven, and words always show some aspect of the whole, but never it all. It makes sense as we are focused creatures who concentrate on one thing at a time, rather than being able to see it all. God bless you.
     
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