Regeneration before or after saving faith

[Ezra]

I tell ppl I am a five point Calvinist.

i tell people i am a born again child of GOD

 

[Preacher4Truth]

That was the culture at that time. There were all the inquisitions where the RCC killed millions, iirc. Ppl viewed those who they deemed heretics worthy of death. It’s not just a John Calvin thing. I’m not defending that practice, but that was the culture of that time.

Calvin had no authority over Servetus in Geneva concerning his punishment. He, Calvin, was not a citizen of Geneva, and he tried to convince Servetus not to come there lest he die at their hands, not his hands. He also tried to convince authorities to behead instead of burn him because he thought it to be a less painful option. Servetus was not an innocent "Christian," he denied Christ was the Son of God altogether, even unto death. That makes him an unbeliever.

I suggest those who won't believe or read the theology of Calvin and hate him in ignorance also not read the theology of Moses who himself murdered. Probably ought to stop reading Paul as well for being responsible for the deaths of Christians.

 

[Renniks]

That was the culture at that time. There were all the inquisitions where the RCC killed millions, iirc. Ppl viewed those who they deemed heretics worthy of death. It’s not just a John Calvin thing. I’m not defending that practice, but that was the culture of that time.

Your hero Calvin had people burned at the stake. Saying that was just the culture is ludicrous.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Your hero Calvin had people burned at the stake. Saying that was just the culture is ludicrous.

Nope, he didn't.

I'd say @SovereignGrace only hero is Christ, and I know him personally. Your post is unfortunately proof you're ignorant about the involvement and authority of Calvin concerning Serevetus' execution.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Your hero Calvin had people burned at the stake. Saying that was just the culture is ludicrous.

Calvin did not have that authority. Saul of Tarsus was consenting of Stephen’s murder. Better not read his letters.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Nope, he didn't.

I'd say @SovereignGrace only hero is Christ, and I know him personally. Your post is unfortunately proof you're ignorant about the involvement and authority of Calvin concerning Serevetus' execution.

We all have our heroes, but that does not mean we idolize them. Huge difference in the two. But when they can’t refute Calvinism, attack John Calvin.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And race does not equal individual. ALL it means is that the Jews were not the only ones chosen for salvation

You keep on believing that

 

[SovereignGrace]

Your hero Calvin had people burned at the stake. Saying that was just the culture is ludicrous.

Jan Hus was burned at the stake, and he held to predestination and election. It was the culture of the time. There’s no denying it, it’s part of history.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Nope, he didn't.

I'd say @SovereignGrace only hero is Christ, and I know him personally. Your post is unfortunately proof you're ignorant about the involvement and authority of Calvin concerning Serevetus' execution.

Many here have Charles Finney as their hero, and don’t even know it. They preach exactly what he did. He was responsible for more deaths by his decisional regeneration heresy than those who Calvin supposedly has killed.

 

[Candidus]

On October 27, 1553, Calvin’s men used green wood for the fire so Servetus would be slowly baked alive from the feet upward. For 30 minutes he screamed for mercy and prayed to Jesus as the fire worked its way up his body to burn the theology book Calvin had strapped to his chest as a symbol of his heresy.


“Servetus . . . suffered the penalty due to his heresies, but was it by my will? Certainly his arrogance destroyed him not less than his impiety. And what crime was it of mine if our Council, at my exhortation, indeed, but in conformity with the opinion of several Churches, took vengeance on his execrable blasphemies?”- John Calvin

John Calvin justified killing his theological opponents with the Bible

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 Jn. 3:15.

 

[Renniks]

Nope, he didn't.

I'd say @SovereignGrace only hero is Christ, and I know him personally. Your post is unfortunately proof you're ignorant about the involvement and authority of Calvin concerning Serevetus' execution.

He not only agreed with his execution, he made jokes about it.

" those who would spare heretics and blasphemers are themselves blasphemers."

That Calvin quote is from a Calvinist source.

 

[Renniks]

Calvin did not have that authority. Saul of Tarsus was consenting of Stephen’s murder. Better not read his letters.

Saul repented. Calvin never repented of his part in the murder.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Many here have Charles Finney as their hero, and don’t even know it. They preach exactly what he did. He was responsible for more deaths by his decisional regeneration heresy than those who Calvin supposedly has killed.

One thing of note? People need to be real cautious of pointing out the sins of others as if they were lost and as if they are above them and saved in comparison. Matthew 7:2. I've recently been deemed lost and falsely accused as a liar unfortunately. People need to spend more time in the word and prayer instead of living on forums arguing. They may soon discover their errors and gain some humility and teachability.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Many here have Charles Finney as their hero, and don’t even know it. They preach exactly what he did. He was responsible for more deaths by his decisional regeneration heresy than those who Calvin supposedly has killed.

Yes, they do not realize their errant gospel understanding is only about 200 years old, or less.

 

[SovereignGrace]

On October 27, 1553, Calvin’s men used green wood for the fire so Servetus would be slowly baked alive from the feet upward. For 30 minutes he screamed for mercy and prayed to Jesus as the fire worked its way up his body to burn the theology book Calvin had strapped to his chest as a symbol of his heresy.


“Servetus . . . suffered the penalty due to his heresies, but was it by my will? Certainly his arrogance destroyed him not less than his impiety. And what crime was it of mine if our Council, at my exhortation, indeed, but in conformity with the opinion of several Churches, took vengeance on his execrable blasphemies?”- John Calvin

John Calvin justified killing his theological opponents with the Bible

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 Jn. 3:15.

Again, John Calvin was not the authority. But believe whatever helps you sleep better at night.

 

[Candidus]

Again, John Calvin was not the authority. But believe whatever helps you sleep better at night.

Clearly, I don't need to dull my conscience at night to justify following a heretical murderer!

 

[SovereignGrace]

Clearly, I don't need to dull my conscience at night to justify following a heretical murderer!

I don’t follow a heretical murder, but follow the Christ. John Calvin was not a murderer. Good bye.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Again, John Calvin was not the authority. But believe whatever helps you sleep better at night.

They won't listen to documented facts like here: The Servetus Affair

Instead they use the green wood burning lie, it helps facilitate the hatred of God electing and predestining whom he wills. I embrace these truths, they are profoundly gracious, merciful and lovely.

 

[Candidus]

Many here have Charles Finney as their hero, and don’t even know it. They preach exactly what he did. He was responsible for more deaths by his decisional regeneration heresy than those who Calvin supposedly has killed.

And unlike most Calvinists here, they have more in common with Gnostic Fatalism than Scripture, and they don't know it. Since we were making comparative observations... Imagine how many are in an Eternal Hell for trusting in some fictional Calvinistic "gnosis" that they are one of the "Elect" that are "predestined from all eternity" instead of trusting in the work of Jesus in faith and repentance?

 

[Candidus]

They won't listen to documented facts like here: The Servetus Affair

Instead they use the green wood burning lie, it helps facilitate the hatred of God electing and predestining whom he wills. I embrace these truths, they are profoundly gracious, merciful and lovely.

So, Predestinating little infants to torture in an Eternal Hell is "profoundly gracious, merciful and lovely"?"

 

[SovereignGrace]

They won't listen to documented facts like here: The Servetus Affair

Instead they use the green wood burning lie, it helps facilitate the hatred of God electing and predestining whom he wills. I embrace these truths, they are profoundly gracious, merciful and lovely.

This is quite telling from that article...


“Sadly, every major Christian body which traces its history back to the sixteenth century has blood liberally scattered over its credentials. Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Reformed and Anglican: all have condemned and executed their Servetuses. . . .It is fair to suggest that it is improper to single out Calvin as if he were somehow the initiator of this vicious trend, or a particularly vigorous and detestable supporter of the practice, where the majority of his enlightened contemporaries wished it to be abolished. The case of Etienne Le Court, who was publicly degraded, strangled and burned by the Inquisition at Rouen on 11 December 1533, for suggesting that, among other things, ‘women will preach the gospel,’ would seem considerably more disturbing.”

They ignore or sweep under the rug that free willers also were guilty of having ppl put to death. None of us truly know all the details and how much authority John Calvin really had in Michael Servetus’ execution. I find it hard to believe he had that much authority but none of us really knows.