1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Regeneration before or after saving faith

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by friend of, Mar 16, 2020.

  1. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    587
    Likes Received:
    402
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    When does one become Regenerated? Does it happen before in order to empower us to believe or does it happen after we believe?

    Play nice
     
  2. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,730
    Likes Received:
    1,050
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Seeing as we don't receive the Holy Spirit until AFTER we repent, it is after. Acts 2:38
     
  3. Anthony D'Arienzo

    Anthony D'Arienzo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,723
    Likes Received:
    1,817
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    It all happens at one point in time. We are given a new heart and enabled to believe,[quickened by the Spirit].
    A person cannot believe apart from the Spirit.

    God does the unseen work ;
    7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
  4. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,300
    Likes Received:
    6,131
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    The answer is given in Ephesians 1:12,13:

    That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted...

    THE GOSPEL IS PREACHED AND HEARD
    ...after that ye heard the Word of Truth, the Gospel of your salvation...

    THE HEARER TRUSTS AND BELIEVES ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST
    ...in whom also after that ye believed...

    THE BELIEVER IS SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT
    ...ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise...

    The sealing with the Holy Spirit implies (1) the receiving of the Holy Spirit as a gift (also called baptism WITH the Holy Ghost), (2) regeneration by the Holy Spirit, (3) the sealing with the Holy Spirit, and (3) the baptism BY the Holy Spirit, which places the believer in the Body of Christ. All of this would be simultaneous.

    As Peter said in Acts 2:38:
    Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    So the order is:
    repentance + faith--->the gift of the Spirit--->regeneration
     
  5. Faither

    Faither Member

    Messages:
    253
    Likes Received:
    19
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Nothing happens before or after you " believe ", that word is a mistranslation. So the premise of your question is flawed.
     
  6. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,265
    Likes Received:
    447
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    :eek:
     
    mailmandan likes this.
  7. Dcopymope

    Dcopymope Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,213
    Likes Received:
    643
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Well, what does regeneration mean as you understand it
     
  8. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    587
    Likes Received:
    402
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    Okay so the Clavinist teaching that you have to be regenerated before coming to faith in Christ is in fact error.
     
    Eternally Grateful likes this.
  9. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    587
    Likes Received:
    402
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
  10. Anthony D'Arienzo

    Anthony D'Arienzo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,723
    Likes Received:
    1,817
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Not according to Eph2:1
     
  11. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,852
    Likes Received:
    1,271
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    Hello friend,

    for the living , all things are NOW. Before He formed us in the womb He knew us...

    Peace be with you!
     
  12. mailmandan

    mailmandan Active Member

    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    138
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Nothing happens he says. :rolleyes:

    Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.

    So believed followed by sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise equates to "believed is a mistranslation" and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise equates to "nothing happened" after one believes the gospel according to Mr "Faither" (which is a made up word). Talk about a false teaching! :eek:
     
    Eternally Grateful likes this.
  13. mailmandan

    mailmandan Active Member

    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    138
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I believe that regeneration immediately follows believing the gospel and not before. (Ephesians 1:13) In regards to empowering us to believe, in John 6:44, we read - "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day." In verse 65, we read - And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father." The NIV reads "enabled him."

    Now I would not equate drawing and granted/enabling with regeneration, but without it, we would never come to Jesus/believe the gospel all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ. The impulse to saving faith in Christ comes from God.
     
    Eternally Grateful and Enoch111 like this.
  14. reformed1689

    reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,909
    Likes Received:
    979
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    You are going to have to define terms. I doubt what you are saying is actually related to what Calvinist's say and the Bible teaches.
     
  15. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,300
    Likes Received:
    6,131
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    In that passage divine foreknowledge means that God knows from the very beginning who will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be justified by grace through faith. And those are the ones who are predestined to be CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON. In other words, all genuine believers are eternally secure in Christ, and are predestined to be also perfected and glorified in Him.

    So the order is:
    CALLED--->JUSTIFIED--->SANCTIFIED--->GLORIFIED

    When a sinner is justified, he or she receives the gift of the Holy Spirit, who then regenerates the believer. It is God who justifies, it is the Holy Spirit who sanctifies and it is Christ who glorifies at the Resurrection/Rapture.
     
    Dcopymope and mailmandan like this.
  16. reformed1689

    reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,909
    Likes Received:
    979
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    No, that is actually not what that means.
     
    Preacher4Truth likes this.
  17. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,300
    Likes Received:
    6,131
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    We know that that is exactly what it means from other Scriptures:
    Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (1 Peter 1:2).

    Election is never for salvation for the simple reason that (1) Christ died for the sins on the whole world, (2) Christ commanded that the Gospel be preached to EVERY creature, and (3) God will have ALL men to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

    So election and predestination are shown to be so that believers are ultimately CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON. What this means is explained in 1 John 3:1-3:

    WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM
    1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
    2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear [at the Resurrection/Rapture], we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
    3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
     
  18. reformed1689

    reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,909
    Likes Received:
    979
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    None of those verses mean what you are implying.
     
  19. Dcopymope

    Dcopymope Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,213
    Likes Received:
    643
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    How so? It makes sense when taking into account the new testament in its entirety. [​IMG]
     
    DNB likes this.
  20. reformed1689

    reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,909
    Likes Received:
    979
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Quite the opposite actually.
     
Loading...