Regeneration before or after saving faith

[Jane_Doe22]

Let me ask you a question. Are there any ppl deserving of heaven?

SovereignGrace, I've asked the same question of you many times now and I'm admittedly loosing patience.

If you believe it's ok that God created some people he predestined to hell, but it's ok because he also to save some others, please just say so. The not acknowledging the full implications here is what's causing my frusrtating.

God created Adam from the ground, and Eve from his rib. He did not create us. We are procreated via intercourse from our parents.

No. God alone is the creater. The ultimate all knowing.

 

[SovereignGrace]

SovereignGrace, I've asked the same question of you many times now and I'm admittedly loosing patience.

If you believe it's ok that God created some people he predestined to hell, but it's ok because he also to save some others, please just say so.

No. God alone is the creater. The ultimate all knowing.

You’ve asked me TONS of questions, and I’ve done my best to answer everyone of them. Answer mine and I’ll answer yours. Deal?

 

[SovereignGrace]

SovereignGrace, I've asked the same question of you many times now and I'm admittedly loosing patience.

If you believe it's ok that God created some people he predestined to hell, but it's ok because he also to save some others, please just say so. The not acknowledging the full implications here is what's causing my frusrtating.

No. God alone is the creater. The ultimate all knowing.

Again, we are procreated.

 

[Renniks]

Here you go @Renniks

I show below how you take the text you offered completely out of context, misused it, and misapplied it to lost folks only in order to support your error that the lost have to meet conditions for God to save them.

This is further proof you do in fact say they have the ability, something you denied believing only after you stated YOU prepared your heart SO God would save you. You're being either disingenuous, dishonest, or perhaps both.

This text isn't about, for, or to the lost. You've failed to implement 2 Timothy 2:15 which is why your conclusion is absolutely false and finds zero support from Scripture.

This is just one example of how you've been refuted; you shamefully mishandled Gods word.

I will bring more where your response snipped out my refutation.

Here you go:

Here's what I said: See the problem with picking out scraps of verses and building a theology off scraps? You never really get the whole picture that way. There are conditions you have to meet before God will work in you.

I didn't specify whether the you refers to saved or unsaved. It doesn't matter! In either case, scripture tells us all over and over again that we must cooperate with the spirit for God to do work in us.
Because you read everything as us vs them, elect vs non elect, you have these neat little categories that you want to pigeonhole people into. God doesn't. He wants all to come, and to that end, he gave all.

15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

And now you will once again claim that all doesn't mean "all."

"if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

Believing results in salvation. It's not a hidden truth.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

You’ve asked me TONS of questions, and I’ve done my best to answer everyone of them. Answer mine and I’ll answer yours. Deal?

I believe that a loving God gives each and every person a chance to accept Him and His grace.

Now: If you believe it's ok that God created some people he predestined to hell, but it's ok because he also to save some others, please just say so.

 

[SovereignGrace]

SovereignGrace, I've asked the same question of you many times now and I'm admittedly loosing patience.

If you believe it's ok that God created some people he predestined to hell, but it's ok because he also to save some others, please just say so. The not acknowledging the full implications here is what's causing my frusrtating.

No. God alone is the creater. The ultimate all knowing.

In your schema, it’s no better. You believe God created billions of ppl He knew that no matter what He did for them, they’d reject them and end up in hell, and He created them anyways. You system still has God creating billions He knew would be cast into hell.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Cold busted!

Agreed. It is plain as day he misused and misapplied scripture. None of what he quoted is to the lost. If you don't know to whom the epistle is written then you make silly mistakes.

Then after that? You deny it altogether and pretend it never happened. This is the type of character and behavior we are dealing with.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I believe that a loving God gives each and every person a chance to accept Him and His grace.

Now: If you believe it's ok that God created some people he predestined to hell, but it's ok because he also to save some others, please just say so.

No He hasn’t. He gave the Jews in the OT the Law to keep and a sacrificial system to atone for their sins, and a high priest to intercede for them.

Show me where He gave any other nation a sacrificial system that atoned for their sins and a high priest to intercede for them. You won’t find it, but search for it anyways.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Here's what I said: See the problem with picking out scraps of verses and building a theology off scraps? You never really get the whole picture that way. There are conditions you have to meet before God will work in you.

I didn't specify whether the you refers to saved or unsaved. It doesn't matter! In either case, scripture tells us all over and over again that we must cooperate with the spirit for God to do work in us.
Because you read everything as us vs them, elect vs non elect, you have these neat little categories that you want to pigeonhole people into. God doesn't. He wants all to come, and to that end, he gave all.

15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

And now you will once again claim that all doesn't mean "all."

"if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

Believing results in salvation. It's not a hidden truth.

Oh stop you applied it to the lost AND misapplied it to the saved. You misused the text and I showed how. Own it like a man.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

In your schema, it’s no better. You believe God created billions of ppl He knew that no matter what He did for them, they’d reject them and end up in hell, and He created them anyways. You system still has God creating billions He knew would be cast into hell.

There's a HUGE difference between:
A) Somebody who creates falling people with no parachute.
B) Somebody who gives each and every single person a parachute (the Savior), and begs & teaches them to use it.

No He hasn’t. He gave the Jews in the OT the Law to keep and a sacrificial system to atone for their sins, and a high priest to intercede for them.

Show me where He gave any other nation a sacrificial system that atoned for their sins and a high priest to intercede for them. You won’t find it, but search for it anyways.

Christ is the High Priest for the whole world. The one and only Savior.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I believe that a loving God gives each and every person a chance to accept Him and His grace.

Now: If you believe it's ok that God created some people he predestined to hell, but it's ok because he also to save some others, please just say so.

You are the one who doesn’t trust God unless He checks off every one of your boxes. Now, show me where it says He has elected some for hell. I do believe in double predestination but not equal ultimacy. Look that up if you don’t know what it is.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I believe that a loving God gives each and every person a chance to accept Him and His grace.

Yet what you really mean is if he is truly loving he has to do this. Scripture shows he doesn't.

 

[SovereignGrace]

There's a HUGE difference between:
A) Somebody who creates falling people with no parachute.
B) Somebody who gives each and every single person a parachute (the Savior), and begs & teaches them to use it.


Christ is the High Priest for the whole world. The one and only Savior.

Show me where He is the High Priest for everyone. You’re not posting any scripture whatsoever but strictly emotions.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Yet what you really mean is if he is truly loving he has to do this. Scripture shows he doesn't.

Yep.

 

[Renniks]

Which he does not do to everyone?
So not everyone has that choice to accept the Savior?

I'm not doubting the magnitude of sin here. That's not the question. The question is whether or not there are some people God created to be blind, never have the chance to accept the Savior, and then go straight to Hell.

In other words: I'm not doubting the magnitude of how high a 5000 ft fall hurts. The question is whether or not God (whom know that big drop was there before people were born) gave everyone a parachute named the Savior.

Absolutely. He died for all.
John 3:16
1 John 2:2

 

[SovereignGrace]

Yet what you really mean is if he is truly loving he has to do this. Scripture shows he doesn't.

And He is the High Priest for the whole world, i.e. everyone. Yikes! That’s devoid of scriptural proof.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Yet what you really mean is if he is truly loving he has to do this. Scripture shows he doesn't.

Unless He checks all her boxes, He is not worthy of her praise and worship.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Show me where He is the High Priest for everyone. You’re not posting any scripture whatsoever but strictly emotions.

John 3:16, which I know that you're just going to say "well the world doesn't actually mean the world and all the people in it".
But again, I'm not trying to change your beliefs.

I want to understand your beliefs. Understand how it is you believe what you do.

 

[Renniks]

If you flat line and crash to the floor and someone does CPR on you and revive you, and you thank the person later on for saving your life, did you choose to thank him? Sure you did. When God quickened us, we were given faith and repentance, exercised them, were saved, and praised Him for saving us.

Lots of people who are quickened refuse to surrender. You can't claim to exercise Faith and still claim he does everything and you don't do anything BTW.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

John 3:16, which I know that you're just going to say "well the world doesn't actually mean the world and all the people in it".
But again, I'm not trying to change your beliefs.

Nothing in that text makes him high priest to the world.

I want to understand your beliefs. Understand how it is you believe what you do.

But he's been perfectly straight forward thus far. When we try to get you to 'fess up, you hide what you believe.