Is this good for Christianity?

[Justadude]

The lost are corrupt in the flesh and in spirit. Their minds are unable to understand the truth.

"Rational" ? The mind of man cannot conceive the things of God, nor grasp them.
"Brain" ? The rebellious 'brain' has no part in God's Kingdom.
"make sense" ? The spiritual truth does not make sense to the carnal man.
"revelations" ? The heavenly Father REVEALS (i.e. revelations) TO LITTLE CHILDREN Salvation and everything concerning Salvation. (and HIDES IT from the educated) for thus it is HIS GOOD PLEASURE SO TO DO ----
-----0-----
since mankind in its best wisdom and knowledge serves the creature

instead of the Creator
and
tries to drag everyone down to destruction.

Your reality? Like that homosexuals are okay somehow ? (note they are not in heaven)
(unless they repent and are born again by the Will of the Father from heaven)

Reality? Unwilling to give up sinning ?

So be it.

The lake of fire was made for the devil and his angels who rebelled.....
People choose to go there by rejecting Jesus' Grace.

Not attractive at all.....

@Jane_Doe22 do you think presenting Christianity in these terms increases or decreases its appeal to non-believers?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

@Jane_Doe22 do you think presenting Christianity in these terms increases or decreases its appeal to non-believers?

I tink I've tol you several times how i don't believe in blindly preaching at people or policing them.

And yet you're once again implying that I should do it. He has the right to preach at you. You have the right to disagree at his beliefs. Equal free speech.

It has a much bigger problem.


I understand that. But I also understand that people have the ability to moderate how and when they "preach". Your question assumes they don't.


Only two possibilities are presented, either all on or all off. The possibility of people being considerate and discerning about how and when the "preach" needs to be included.

You're actually highlighting the issue here: *who* does the discerning as to the when/where/what/how/why/etc.

Wrong. I specifically said "from today's conversations". Please read more carefully next time.

Was my post explaining my own love status as a Christian & love of science/questions/thoughtfulness not today?

And yes you say things like "it seems in order to be a Christian I have to be irrational, turn off my brain, believe blindly in things that don't make sense, believe certain people's dreams are revelations from a god, not be a normal person, and deny reality."

What part of talking with me supports that statement?
And yet, you have addressed it to me because I am a Christian.

 

[Joseph77]

@Jane_Doe22 do you think presenting Christianity in these terms increases or decreases its appeal to non-believers?

Jesus did not "appeal" to the sons of the devil - He called them what they were and told them what was going to happen to them.

EVEN the religious teachers , when they sought the approval of man (instead of God's Approval),

were severely chastised, or rebuked, or worse - told by Jesus why they would not "make it" , unless they repented.

 

[Justadude]

I tink I've tol you several times how i don't believe in blindly preaching at people or policing them.

And yet you're once again implying that I should do it. He has the right to preach at you. You have the right to disagree at his beliefs. Equal free speech.

Again I see you thinking in binary terms, where you either do nothing or "police" people. The possibility of persuading people within your own group doesn't seem to even occur to you.

You're actually highlighting the issue here: *who* does the discerning as to the when/where/what/how/why/etc.

Everyone. That's how groups maintain cohesiveness (in the absence of legal authority).

Was my post explaining my own love status as a Christian & love of science/questions/thoughtfulness not today?

But you didn't tie any of it to what one has to be like or do in order to be a Christian.

And yes you say things like "it seems in order to be a Christian I have to be irrational, turn off my brain, believe blindly in things that don't make sense, believe certain people's dreams are revelations from a god, not be a normal person, and deny reality."

And right before that I said "Based on today's conversations", which is kind of important to the point.

What part of talking with me supports that statement?

I suppose I could modify that to say "Based on the vast majority of today's conversations" and acknowledge that you are the outlier among Christians in this thread. And that brings up an interesting question. Do you think this forum is reflective of Christianity as a whole? Or do you think it's unique in some regard?

And yet, you have addressed it to me because I am a Christian.

That post was not to you. Again, please read more carefully.

 

[Justadude]

Jesus did not "appeal" to the sons of the devil - He called them what they were and told them what was going to happen to them.

EVEN the religious teachers , when they sought the approval of man (instead of God's Approval),

were severely chastised, or rebuked, or worse - told by Jesus why they would not "make it" , unless they repented.

You ever do any street preaching?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Again I see you thinking in binary terms, where you either do nothing or "police" people. The possibility of persuading people within your own group doesn't seem to even occur to you.

Your really need to stop
1) Lumping people together
2) Thinking that i should be obligated to change somebody else.

Everyone. That's how groups maintain cohesiveness (in the absence of legal authority).

By that logic: Joseph77 gets to decide he wants to preach at you.

But you didn't tie any of it to what one has to be like or do in order to be a Christian.


And right before that I said "Based on today's conversations", which is kind of important to the point.


I suppose I could modify that to say "Based on the vast majority of today's conversations" and acknowledge that you are the outlier among Christians in this thread. And that brings up an interesting question. Do you think this forum is reflective of Christianity as a whole? Or do you think it's unique in some regard?


That post was not to you. Again, please read more carefully.

Stop lumping people together!

GA!! You're continual instance on lumping , categorizing,and stereotyping during this conversation is stifling and offensive.

 

[Joseph77]

You ever do any street preaching?

Are you a street ?

 

[Paul Christensen]

So I have to be irrational and suspend all critical thinking to be a Christian?


Do you think Christians are the only religion with those sorts of testimonies?

Of course, for someone who doesn't believe the gospel, Christianity is foolish and irrational.

 

[Joseph77]

Of course, for someone who doesn't believe the gospel, Christianity is foolish and irrational.

tangent footnote: a lot of people , everywhere (in life, in forums, in pulpits, in churches) , it seems, don't reveal the sin they are holding on to, that they don't want to give up,
when they keep resisting the truth and blame others for not 'accepting' them as if that is an excuse to keep on living in sin.

If they find a leader or a group that tells them "come on in" , AND , "stay in sin" , don't worry about repenting ...
they all too often go for it, and end up far worse than before,
and causing many to sin/ stumble/ get on the path to destruction WITH THEM.

 

[Justadude]

Your really need to stop
1) Lumping people together

Depends. If you mean lumping all Christians into one group, I would counter that I've not done that. If you mean lumping Christians who believe and/or behave the same into sub-groups among Christians, I see no reason to not do that. Life is full of such sub-groups. That's why we have these things called "denominations".

2) Thinking that i should be obligated to change somebody else.

I never said you were obligated to do anything.

By that logic: Joseph77 gets to decide he wants to preach at you.

Of course he does. Again you seem to be only able to consider binary choices.

Stop lumping people together!

GA!! You're continual instance on lumping , categorizing,and stereotyping during this conversation is stifling and offensive.

Noting similarities between some Christians is not the same thing as saying all Christians are like that. Also, you didn't answer my question. Do you think this forum is reflective of Christianity as a whole, or is it unique in some regard?

Clearly, you are extremely sensitive about not being lumped in with other Christians. I understand that. But I wonder if it's just certain Christians you don't want to be grouped with, or is it all Christians? Do you object to being thought of as an LDS? Is it wrong of people to figure that if you're a LDS then you probably believe in the Book of Mormon? That you don't work on Sundays? That you wear the undergarments? Or would that offend you because that's stereotyping? Where's the line between reasonable inferences based on the group you belong to, and stereotyping?

 

[Justadude]

Are you a street ?

No. Do you know what street preaching is?

 

[Justadude]

Of course, for someone who doesn't believe the gospel, Christianity is foolish and irrational.

@Jane_Doe22 do you agree?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Noting similarities between some Christians is not the same thing as saying all Christians are like that. Also, you didn't answer my question. Do you think this forum is reflective of Christianity as a whole, or is it unique in some regard?

"Christianity" is not a monolith. Stop thinking that way.
Individuals are individuals, and do things that human individuals do.

Clearly, you are extremely sensitive about not being lumped in with other Christians.

No, I'm just anti-lumping and anti-stereotyping.
Your continual insistence on lumping and stereotyping during this conversation is REALLY taxing my patience.

I understand that. But I wonder if it's just certain Christians you don't want to be grouped with, or is it all Christians? Do you object to being thought of as an LDS? Is it wrong of people to figure that if you're a LDS then you probably believe in the Book of Mormon? That you don't work on Sundays? That you wear the undergarments? Or would that offend you because that's stereotyping? Where's the line between reasonable inferences based on the group you belong to, and stereotyping?

If you want to ask me about my faith (not some stereotype group), we can do somewhere (it doesn't directly relate to this topic) and I'm trying to not de-rail your topic.

 

[Justadude]

"Christianity" is not a monolith. Stop thinking that way.

I've never once said that or anything like that. You need to stop accusing me of something I haven't done.

Individuals are individuals, and do things that human individuals do.

Do you deny that denominations exist and are indicative of shared beliefs?

No, I'm just anti-lumping and anti-stereotyping.

But you seem to be so overly sensitive to it that you view any grouping at all as effectively saying Christianity is a monolith.

Your continual insistence on lumping and stereotyping during this conversation is REALLY taxing my patience.

Can LDS's be grouped together in any way? Jehovah's Witnesses? Southern Baptists? Lutherans? Catholics? Or should we abolish all denominations and group labels and just say no Christian is like any other in any way?

What about from an even wider perspective? Should we abolish labels like Christian, Muslim, Hindu, atheist, etc.? Or is it acceptable to have such groupings?

If you want to ask me about my faith (not some stereotype group), we can do somewhere (it doesn't directly relate to this topic) and I'm trying to not de-rail your topic.

Should I assume that you share zero beliefs with your fellow LDS's, or with any other Christian in existence?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I've never once said that or anything like that. You need to stop accusing me of something I haven't done.


Do you deny that denominations exist and are indicative of shared beliefs?


But you seem to be so overly sensitive to it that you view any grouping at all as effectively saying Christianity is a monolith.


Can LDS's be grouped together in any way? Jehovah's Witnesses? Southern Baptists? Lutherans? Catholics? Or should we abolish all denominations and group labels and just say no Christian is like any other in any way?

What about from an even wider perspective? Should we abolish labels like Christian, Muslim, Hindu, atheist, etc.? Or is it acceptable to have such groupings?


Should I assume that you share zero beliefs with your fellow LDS's, or with any other Christian in existence?

STOP LUMPING PEOPLE.

Labels themselves aren't inherently bad. If a person is using labels to stereotype/lump people together, then they are in error.

Look at individuals as individuals. Not groups or sterotypes.

As to being sensitive: this is not a particular sensitive topic for me. However, because you KEEP doing this same offense over and over again, despite me repeatedly pointing out how it's inaccurate & offensive, then it becomes REALLY irritating. Just like any other repeated offense would.

 

[Justadude]

STOP LUMPING PEOPLE.

Either cite specific examples or stop accusing me.

Labels themselves aren't inherently bad. If a person is using labels to stereotype/lump people together, then they are in error.

What are labels for if not to assign people into groups?

Look at individuals as individuals. Not groups or sterotypes.

Given your background I assume you are familiar with the concept of statistical grouping. Do you complain when scientists assign people into groups and identify tendencies within those groups?

As to being sensitive: this is not a particular sensitive topic for me. However, because you KEEP doing this same offense over and over again, despite me repeatedly pointing out how it's inaccurate & offensive, then it becomes REALLY irritating. Just like any other repeated offense would.

You need to stop accusing me of things I'm not doing.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Either cite specific examples or stop accusing me.


What are labels for if not to assign people into groups?


Given your background I assume you are familiar with the concept of statistical grouping. Do you complain when scientists assign people into groups and identify tendencies within those groups?


You need to stop accusing me of things I'm not doing.

Example: your downright offensive comment: "And yes you say things like "it seems in order to be a Christian I have to be irrational, turn off my brain, believe blindly in things that don't make sense, believe certain people's dreams are revelations from a god, not be a normal person, and deny reality."

Stop stereotyping. Stop lumping.
See individuals. Care for individuals. Not lazy & offensive stereotyping.

 

[Justadude]

Example: your downright offensive comment: "And yes you say things like "it seems in order to be a Christian I have to be irrational, turn off my brain, believe blindly in things that don't make sense, believe certain people's dreams are revelations from a god, not be a normal person, and deny reality."

Stop stereotyping. Stop lumping.
See individuals. Care for individuals. Not lazy & offensive stereotyping.

That you had to omit the first part of that quote to try and make your point should tell you something. Stooping to such tactics should cause you to engage in some self-reflection.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

That you had to omit the first part of that quote to try and make your point should tell you something. Stooping to such tactics should cause you to engage in some self-reflection.

You want the whole quote? Sure:

From just today's conversations, it seems in order to be a Christian I have to be irrational, turn off my brain, believe blindly in things that don't make sense, believe certain people's dreams are revelations from a god, not be a normal person, and deny reality.

Not.....very.....attractive.

The "From just today's conversations" part doesn't excuse your comment, as our conversation today has talked about my welcoming of questions, love of science, thoughtfulness, etc.

 

[Justadude]

You want the whole quote? Sure:

The "From just today's conversations" part doesn't excuse your comment, as our conversation today has talked about my welcoming of questions, love of science, thoughtfulness, etc.

So even assuming the worst, that comment can't be an example of lumping or stereotyping all Christians. Unless you're now going to argue that all Christians are here at CB and have spoken to me today.

If you don't have anything else I'm content to wrap this up (especially since you've ignored much of what I posted to you lately).