Are Protestants "saved? "

[Brakelite]

Show me please where I am condemning any one, Christ came to show us the better way. Him, Grace truth, can HE help it men would rather religion, as HE put it,

Oh please. How long have you been critical of all church systems, and mine in particular as works based self righteous Babylonian counterfeit Christian? Like, forever? Yet not once do you offer any substantial reason for that criticism apart from general condemnation In fact, you have promoted your own Independence as proof somehow of your relationship with Christ. That text you wrote about 'Christians' banging on the door demanding entrance apply to you as well... You should be favored because you don't belong to a church unlike these others...
Yes, Christ came to show us a better way. So true. And I think I described that way fairly well in my last post... Which you didn't seem to give recognition to. But that's okay...I wasnt looking for affirmation... Just explaining my religion.

 

[mjrhealth]

and mine in particular as works based self righteous Babylonian counterfeit Christian

I guess you should stop picking on the Catholics than shouldnt you, like mother like daughter, yes it is yours because it is not His, Yes stay in your religion, that is your doing your choosing not His.

Independence as proof somehow of your relationship with Chris

oh you mean because I dont fit the "religious" norm I guess that is because Jesus said,

Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

so just as the song says, I will follow Him.

Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Rom_9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

 

[Brakelite]

oh you mean because I dont fit the "religious" norm I guess that is because Jesus said,

Like I said previously, no one is judging you for your Independence... And if your religion is of the good type as described in scripture, then great. But you still don't like anyone else's simply on the basis of the their membership to a church. Your automatic linking their church to being outside of Christ is unnecessary.
Good luck finding any post where I pick on a Catholic. I do reveal where scripture reveals a counterfeit system that replaces Christ as the Source of salvation. And I also systematically show how the criteria as revealed in scripture match the historical and doctrinal practice and teachings of Catholicism.
If you can do that with my church I would be only too happy to discuss such issues you have, but your scattergun pot shots aren't pinpointing anything that we could actually dissect and discuss. Got anything in particular you object to about the seventh day Adventist Church?

 

[mjrhealth]

And if your religion is of the good type as described in scripture, then great

Christ is not a religion, didnt you hear.

Good luck finding any post where I pick on a Catholic. I do reveal where scripture reveals a counterfeit system that replaces Christ as the Source of salvation. And I also systematically show how the criteria as revealed in scripture match the historical and doctrinal practice and teachings of Catholicism.
If you can do that with my church I would be only too happy to discuss such issues you have, but your scattergun pot shots aren't pinpointing anything that we could actually dissect and discuss. Got anything in particular you object to about the seventh day Adventist Church?

Like I said like mother like daughter

Rev_17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

\Act 7:47 But Solomon built him an house.
Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

But please do as thou wilt,

 

[Joseph77]

It seems daily you do a lot of guessing, and many other things resulting from guessing. (i.e. strange to God's Word) ("strange fire" too?)

I guess you should stop picking on the Catholics

 

[Jay Ross]

It seems daily you do a lot of guessing, and many other things resulting from guessing. (i.e. strange to God's Word) ("strange fire" too?)

I guess you should stop picking on the Catholics then shouldnt you,

Does the context of this post actually convey what it is that you want to say?

 

[amadeus]

@FollowHim

FollowHim said: ↑
Paul was so confident of his behaviour he held it up as the example for the churches who knew him to follow.

@bbyrd009

bbyrd009 said:
strange though, that he also has a passage about not being an example at all...wont come to me, but when it does might be interesting to contrast the two contexts

Did not Paul put a restriction on those who would follow him here?

"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." I Cor 11:1

When we look at the ways of Paul and he does not appear as Christ appeared, then according to his own words we should not follow him.

 

[Joseph77]

@FollowHim
Did not Paul put a restriction on those who would follow him here?
"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." I Cor 11:1
When we look at the ways of Paul and he does not appear as Christ appeared, then according to his own words we should not follow him.

"IF", if you find anything contrary to Scripture, as many things posted online are, and most on television are,
THEN do not follow."

As Jesus trained and taught Paul, He is authentic, and proven true, as also all the true apostles verified completely.

 

[amadeus]

"IF", if you find anything contrary to Scripture, as many things posted online are, and most on television are,
THEN do not follow."

As Jesus trained and taught Paul, He is authentic, and proven true, as also all the true apostles verified completely.

There are a lot of mixed messages being presented as truth in places. What a person needs when he hears such a mixed message is the means to separate the lies from the truth... that is... to hear only the truth. This would be where the Holy Spirit in the person should come into play. Any unbeliever or devil or deluded person can read the letter of a Bible, but for anyone to receive and understand God's message [the Truth] he needs the Spirit of God, that is the Holy Spirit. Pontius Pilate asked: What is truth? Right in front him stood Truth, but with his very carnal vision the man could not see it, so he asked the question.

"[God] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

Yes, the Holy Spirit in a person is able to "see", for there are people, I believe, who have believed, who are now teaching or believing a mixture because they regularly and habitually quench the Spirit in themselves. From this we see the mixtures found in people. Such people often constitute many or all of those in churches or denominations. This mixture is the double-mindedness about which James writes:

"A double minded man is unstable in all his ways." James 1:8

"Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded." James 4:8

Assuming that a person has received the Holy Spirit, how does he stop quenching the Spirit?

 

[Joseph77]

Simply, as Jesus Says: WHOEVER (even) wants

to be MY (Jesus') disciple,

must give up everything and come follow ME (Jesus),

come to ME (Jesus), and learn from ME (Jesus),

As seen today, for a century?, worldwide, few ever DO.

I did once for all time, and never looked back, and have no regrets (except the times I stumbled).

The more we can talk all about Jesus and listen to Jesus and DO what Jesus says, honoring the Father in Heaven,

the more and perfect and overflowing JOY, and PEACE, and RIGHTEOUSNESS as Jesus Says Clearly, in ANY circumstances......

The more religion, tradtions, rules of men accepted in place of Jesus Guidance,
the more the Spirit is quenched (daily for multitudes everywhere).

Assuming that a person has received the Holy Spirit, how does he stop quenching the Spirit?

 

[amadeus]

Simply, as Jesus Says: WHOEVER (even) wants

to be MY (Jesus') disciple,

must give up everything and come follow ME (Jesus),

come to ME (Jesus), and learn from ME (Jesus),

As seen today, for a century?, worldwide, few ever DO.

I did once for all time, and never looked back, and have no regrets (except the times I stumbled).

The more we can talk all about Jesus and listen to Jesus and DO what Jesus says, honoring the Father in Heaven,

the more and perfect and overflowing JOY, and PEACE, and RIGHTEOUSNESS as Jesus Says Clearly, in ANY circumstances......

The more religion, tradtions, rules of men accepted in place of Jesus Guidance,
the more the Spirit is quenched (daily for multitudes everywhere).

I may have had another answer to my question... but yours is good!

 

[Joseph77]

I may have had another answer to my question... but yours is good!

In Scripture, God Reveals many ways in which men disobey Him and prevent His blessing - even bring His curse upon themselves and their families (frequently today - more frequently than anyone realizes! Otherwise, would they do it !?) ....

 

[amadeus]

In Scripture, God Reveals many ways in which men disobey Him and prevent His blessing - even bring His curse upon themselves and their families (frequently today - more frequently than anyone realizes! Otherwise, would they do it !?) ....

Some of them, I believe, would!

 

[Joseph77]

Some of them, I believe, would!

.... with eternal grief , God's Judgement, and sorrow,

"two thirds of mankind refuse to repent of worshiping (serving/idolatry) demons..... " even after one third of mankind dies.... they don't even think of calling on God for help, nor of turning to God at all.

 

[amadeus]

.... with eternal grief , God's Judgement, and sorrow,

"two thirds of mankind refuse to repent of worshiping (serving/idolatry) demons..... " even after one third of mankind dies.... they don't even think of calling on God for help, nor of turning to God at all.

All we can do is what we can. If they will hear not from the One who did arise from the dead, why would they listen to us? But then again He may speak through us to some hungry heart!

 

[FollowHim]

@FollowHim


@bbyrd009


Did not Paul put a restriction on those who would follow him here?

"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." I Cor 11:1

When we look at the ways of Paul and he does not appear as Christ appeared, then according to his own words we should not follow him.

This is a valid point if one is being legalistic.
I was thinking a little time ago about heroes, living people who we would like to emulate.
When you read something on paper it is very different than when you meet someone in real life. The emotional tone and body language, emphasis joy and sadness can come across in ways you could not put into words.

So Paul is saying Jesus is one example, and how it is worked out in living believers is another example. So Paul is encouraging believers to see what is before them as a statement of what can be achieved and not despair that all the idealism at perfection is just a pipe dream. And this is an important emotional point. It takes courage, faith and endurance to walk in the ways of Jesus, not just give it a go, and if it is too difficult throw in the towel, it does not matter.

So as we as believers show the Holy Spirit to one another, so we should be encouraged and walk on.
Reading how people went off the rails, sleeping with relatives, suing each other in court, claiming different apostles as the best, following satan, claiming the resurrection has already happened, that circumcision is needed, that exploitation of the needy is fine, that poor believers should be avoided, that wealth proves who you are in Christ etc. It comes to a point where you need a good few believers to set the example, especially in leadership. This applies today as it does at any other time. God bless you

 

[amadeus]

This is a valid point if one is being legalistic.
I was thinking a little time ago about heroes, living people who we would like to emulate.
When you read something on paper it is very different than when you meet someone in real life. The emotional tone and body language, emphasis joy and sadness can come across in ways you could not put into words.

So Paul is saying Jesus is one example, and how it is worked out in living believers is another example. So Paul is encouraging believers to see what is before them as a statement of what can be achieved and not despair that all the idealism at perfection is just a pipe dream. And this is an important emotional point. It takes courage, faith and endurance to walk in the ways of Jesus, not just give it a go, and if it is too difficult throw in the towel, it does not matter.

So as we as believers show the Holy Spirit to one another, so we should be encouraged and walk on.
Reading how people went off the rails, sleeping with relatives, suing each other in court, claiming different apostles as the best, following satan, claiming the resurrection has already happened, that circumcision is needed, that exploitation of the needy is fine, that poor believers should be avoided, that wealth proves who you are in Christ etc. It comes to a point where you need a good few believers to set the example, especially in leadership. This applies today as it does at any other time. God bless you

And may God bless you my friend as you walk with Him. One I would add to the 'courage, faith and endurance' is subjection or surrender.

It is easy for men walking seemingly right to slip from confidence in Him to self-confidence and then take a bad fall. I have fallen at times in my walk. One answer for me, which I have shared previously on this forum is to never quit, no matter how matter how bad things have gone and no matter bad things now look. All we need to see at the moment is our very next step. Beyond that let us leave it in God's hand where it belongs.

We can look to someone like David or to some person we know today for a reality check when we have stumbled and think we are finished, but our pattern, our goal, our ideal in a man can only be seen in Jesus. So long as we can see Jesus in a person, such as Apostle Paul, that's OK, but every man has made mistakes. Jesus, as a man, made no mistakes. We may come short in pursuing the place he has shown us, but it still always needs to be our goal.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@FollowHim


@bbyrd009


Did not Paul put a restriction on those who would follow him here?

"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." I Cor 11:1

When we look at the ways of Paul and he does not appear as Christ appeared, then according to his own words we should not follow him.

How did what Paul said and did differ from Christ?

 

[amadeus]

How did what Paul said and did differ from Christ?

I am not against Apostle Paul my friend, but he does include himself in the following verse as part of the "we":

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

That means that his vision, [the vision of Paul] was also not yet to that "face to face". Paul was "in" the world of the temptations of men. Jesus got out of the world of the temptations of men before he was crucified:

"And now I am no more in the world,..." John 17:11

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I am not against Apostle Paul my friend, but he does include himself in the following verse as part of the "we":

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

That means that his vision, [the vision of Paul] was also not yet to that "face to face". Paul was "in" the world of the temptations of men. Jesus got out of the world of the temptations of men before he was crucified:

"And now I am no more in the world,..." John 17:11

true

But I do not see how this relates to what you said.

You seemed to infer Paul was different than Jesus, Even though he commanded us to be like him.

The example you showed here does not show any difference in the way these men lived and their focus, the things we were told to emulate