What do you think this text says about the deity of Christ?

[justbyfaith]

The verse you are quoting 2 Timothy 3:16 was written by Paul and he was referring to the Old Testament since the New Testament did not exist at that time. However, I think that all scripture is useful even the NT scripture

Sorry, I believe that the word of the Lord is timeless and therefore 2 Timothy 3:16 applies to the Old and New Testaments.

Of course, you can reject that truth if you want.

But if you are in the habit of rejecting truth, beware that you don't reject the truth that can actually save you.

 

[Angelina]

I wasn't even really looking for an answer.

I want the answer to the other question more.

Okay bro... but let's get some things straight:

1. John 8 had nothing to do with the gentiles. It had to do with the religious leaders of the day.

2. Using 2 Timothy 3:16 is not a good argument when trying to connect it with John 8, because the New Testament had not been written at the time Paul had made this statement.

Let's move on...

 

[justbyfaith]

Is Philippians for us today?

A simple yes or no will do.

 

[Angelina]

Sorry, I believe that the word of the Lord is timeless and therefore 2 Timothy 3:16 applies to the Old and New Testaments.

Of course, you can reject that truth if you want.

But if you are in the habit of rejecting truth, beware that you don't reject the truth that can actually save you.

Bro... you really need to get some historical as well as biblical understanding of scripture before you make statements that are not feasible nor are they correct. It makes you look like you haven't done your homework...

 

[justbyfaith]

Bro... you really need to get some historical and well as biblical understanding of scripture before you make statements that are not feasible nor are they correct. It makes you look like you haven't done your homework...

I take the holy scripture at face value and I don't believe that the historical context is as important as how the inspired word can minister to the heart if it be taken literally, as 2 Corinthians 3:12 (kjv) says we ought to take it.

Also, we can obtain all of the historical context that we even need from the pages of the holy scripture itself.

I do my homework extensively in reading through the holy scriptures every day and gleaning spiritual edification from them. I do not need to know the historical information to be able to take the scriptures at face value and apply them to my life. The scriptures are sufficient to sanctify me apart from any historical context; in fact, I often find that historical context convolutes things and makes the scriptures less applicable.

 

[tigger 2]

JBF wrote:
"If Jesus is merely a god and not God then He is a false god: for there is only one true God (John 17:3).

btw, in that verse, the word and is kai in the Greek and it can be translated 'even.'"

John 17:1, 3 "Father, .... And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ." ASV.

So, I guess you are suggesting that this important verse should be rendered "Father,.... And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, EVEN [kai] him whom thou didst send, Jesus Christ."

So you are saying the Father sent himself; so the Father IS the son.

If trinitarian scholars and translators believed this silliness, nearly every Bible would be translated that way. But I doubt that you will find any major translation which reads that way. In fact, I would be surprised if you found 2 or 3 recognized translations which renders John 17:3 that way!

 

[justbyfaith]

Is Philippians for us today?

A simple yes or no will do.

 

[Angelina]

I take the holy scripture at face value and I don't believe that the historical context is as important as how the inspired word can minister to the heart if it be taken literally, as 2 Corinthians 3:12 (kjv) says we ought to take it.

If that's an apology. It's not a very good one. It just looks like your covering up a huge biblical Faux Pas

 

[justbyfaith]

JBF wrote:
"If Jesus is merely a god and not God then He is a false god: for there is only one true God (John 17:3).

btw, in that verse, the word and is kai in the Greek and it can be translated 'even.'"

John 17:1, 3 "Father, .... And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ." ASV.

So, I guess you are suggesting that this important verse should be rendered "Father,.... And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, EVEN [kai] him whom thou didst send, Jesus Christ."

So you are saying the Father sent himself; so the Father IS the son.

If trinitarian scholars and translators believed this silliness, nearly every Bible would be translated that way. But I doubt that you will find any major translation which reads that way. In fact, I would be surprised if you found 2 or 3 recognized translations which renders John 17:3 that way!

There is one Lord in holy scripture (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6). The Father is that Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). However, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Spirit of truth (1 Corinthians 12:3).

 

[Angelina]

Now I'm going to find that statement your trying to trick me in re: Philippians

 

[justbyfaith]

If that's an apology. It's not a very good one. It just looks like your covering up a huge biblical Faux Pas

Job 15:12, Why doth thine heart carry thee away? and what do thy eyes wink at,

Psa 35:19, Let not them that are mine enemies wrongfully rejoice over me: neither let them wink with the eye that hate me without a cause.

 

[justbyfaith]

Now I'm going to find that statement your trying to trick me in re: Philippians

Glad to hear it. Because it seems like you've been trying to avoid that one.

 

[justbyfaith]

Here's the link again:

What do you think this text says about the deity of Christ?

 

[amadeus]

That is some slippery slope you have there. If I can believe Jesus is anything I want to believe, he can be Mohammed or the buddha or Micky mouse, but as long as I call him "Jesus" I'm good to go staight to heaven, no passing go or collecting $200?

That is not how it works my friend! We need to conform to what God requires of us, not what we want it to be or what some other man or church requires. If our heart is wrong as God sees it, our theology or belief system or ideas will make no difference to Him in any case...

 

[justbyfaith]

Here's the link again:

What do you think this text says about the deity of Christ?

I don't think that I even need to speak the conclusion of what your answer might be.

I'll let you save a little bit of face and drop the argument.

 

[APAK]

It is very clearly in the word of the Lord...if you don't see that then I suppose we have to believe that the following applies:

2Co 4:3, But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

I say this not in any type of anger or spite; but rather in an attempt to open your eyes.

I'm still praying for you, btw.

Look JBF, are you a religious upstanding person in Trinitarian circles or of a Trinitarian church, if I can use these words to describe you, as a calculated guess? You seem this type of person, although I may be wrong.

I have been in scripture for over 45 years now and what you are writing to me I have literally discussed with many, many many Trinitarians, Oneness, Modalists etc to no end, and none in sight. If I say you are blind you will say I am blind. Can any Trinitarian just try for a moment to forget their mysterious indescribable, unexplained, although 'real' to them, theory of YHWH as they see it, and just stick with scripture for scripture's sake? I have yet to know of one that can manage to it, and you are my 1000th or so person that is in the same camp.

I have been through all the parroted scripture of Trinitarians, Modalists etc, used only as a 'hammer' to try to overwhelm someone with its misapplication. It never works on me.

I have yet to know of a staunch Trinitarian that can explain scripture with context and meaning without forcing scripture together like forcing many puzzle pieces together that clearly do not fit to the casual observer. They produce a completed puzzle as a child that is geared to an adult.

I have debated to no end 'all' the Trinitarian verses that are thrown my way and I have successfully deflected them all, as dud arguments. I would say I have debated at least 100 verses of different kinds and usually I'm left alone when there are no more dud arguments to throw back at me.

And the common process and presentation for a debate by the typical Trinitarian is to just throw out loads of scripture as a long list and then conclude with their own thoughts of what all of it means. And when they are trapped or have no immediate answer, they move to other scripture.

There is no actual Bible study, useful debate or mutual edification. There is no harmony or integration of various scripture to show a point. And the reason for this is because that their belief in their ingrained theory of God does not really fit into scripture. And it does not help me when most of the English translations are by Trinitarians. The deck is being stacked as it were..

Now this is my truth to you, if you believe it. I have nothing to gain in fibbing..APAK

 

[justbyfaith]

That is not how it works my friend! We need to conform to what God requires of us, not what we want it to be or what some other man or church requires. If our heart is wrong as God sees it, our theology or belief system or ideas will make no difference to Him in any case...

If our theology or belief system is wrong, our heart cannot be right.

It is faith in the real Jesus that gives access to the Holy Spirit.

 

[Angelina]

Job 15:12, Why doth thine heart carry thee away? and what do thy eyes wink at,

Psa 35:19, Let not them that are mine enemies wrongfully rejoice over me: neither let them wink with the eye that hate me without a cause.

Hebrews 4:13 And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Proverbs 16:18 Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.

 

[justbyfaith]

I have debated to no end 'all' the Trinitarian verses that are thrown my way and I have successfully deflected them all,

Proud of yourself about that? I'm certain that you will be beaming in pride just before the angel of the LORD casts you into hell.

The problem that I see with you is that you don't accept the kjv as authoritative; as inspired and inerrant. In this, I believe that you feel comfortable going to other translations and holding them above the kjv saying that they are better and that therefore the kjv is not valid in what it says.

However, I would say that in this, the prophecy is fulfilled in you:

2Ti 4:3, For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4, And they shall turn away their ears from the truth,...

The scriptures as they are laid out by alternate translations are the result in many cases of false teachers' teaching; and in turning away from the kjv and toward those other translations, you are in effect heaping to yourself these teachers wanting them to tell you what your itching ears want to hear.

Take it or leave it.

I will continue to pray for your soul either way.

Mat 7:13, Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14, Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[justbyfaith]

Hebrews 4:13 And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Proverbs 16:18 Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.

Amen, I hope that you will take those words to heart.

Matthew 7:1-5.

 

[Renniks]

That is not how it works my friend! We need to conform to what God requires of us, not what we want it to be or what some other man or church requires. If our heart is wrong as God sees it, our theology or belief system or ideas will make no difference to Him in any case...

Which was my point. You can not have your heart right with him if you are wrong about who he is. No relationship can work that way.