What do you think this text says about the deity of Christ?

[APAK]

My point in the passage was that when it says the lame man fell down at his feet, that personal pronoun refers back to the noun God in the previous verse. But it was Jesus' feet at whom the man fell.

ok...just note that about half of the translations insert "Jesus'", instead of 'him' It does not change my conclusion however...

The pronoun 'his' feet is of course the feet of Jesus, and it does not and cannot refer to his Father, YHWH in the previous verse and event of glorification. The restored leper shouted in thanks and joy to YHWH first, then came to Jesus to his feet, to the one of YHWH, the master, or teacher of God, as he knew him being a Samaritan.

As a side note, the reason why the once leper shouted in his glorification of YHWH is because one of the conditions of leprosy is a voice box that can barely speak let alone shout. Very fitting indeed. This restored man shouted to YHWH, not Jesus as he laid to his feet down to his Son who was given the power to heal if one exhibited true faith in the Son, from YHWH...Amen

Blessings,

APAK

 

[DNB]

True Trinity.

You couldn't find the word 'trinity' from anywhere within the Bible?
In Toronto, where I live, we even have a park called 'Trinity Bellwoods Park'.
And you couldn't even find the word 'trinity' or 'three-in-one' in the Bible? What's up with that?

 

[APAK]

But why would Jesus be remiss about this? Allowing Thomas to worship Him as God?

So 'we' are now moving the goal posts on to another verse because nothing was gained on the previous one....deja vu again....I guess I can answer you as I have. to many in the past.....there are three explanations that are valid, plausible and sound, and there is one that is valid although very unsound. Can you guess which one I think you believe in? Can you guess what are the 3 sound explanations I have on-tap? If you can, I will answer you marks...deal?

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Angelina]

When it is to my disadvantage if I do not boast about who I am and what I do as a believer, it is expedient for me to do so; and I may even be compelled to do so.

You're right...you can't make me do anything...but you can create a situation where I would be foolish not to do something; even if the thing in question is foolish in itself.

I'm sorry. I cannot do anything about your foolishness. The onus is on you. When you stand before the throne of God, are you going to say, "Oh sorry God, It was her fault, she made me angry?"

 

[amadeus]

No mature Christian would deny that Jesus is God. We pray in his name. I pray to him directly, as God, not as some high angel. There's a reason this has been considered heresy since 325 AD.

Well I do not deny that Jesus is God nor do I affirm what many others say. If I must follow the lead of the majority bearing the label of Christian, then call me immature. What difference could it make to you or anyone else that my belief is somewhat different than yours? Is not God's judgment final in the matter rather than that of any man? Who has seen what is in my heart?

The Bible teaches that Jesus is equal in nature to God the Father. Jesus is the Creator of everything - not everything but Himself.

Do you have an answer to the question I presented with regard to John 17? Never has anyone given me a clear response one way or the other.

The Bible says.

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made (John 1:3)

OK! My reads the same way.

Paul wrote the to the Colossians.

For by him [Jesus] all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him (Colossians 1:16).

OK!

There is no hint in Scripture that Jesus was a created being. He not only existed before all things He is also preeminent over all things.

No hint? Hmmm?

 

[Angelina]

I have not in any way said that you, personally, are going to hell. Read my words more carefully.

I say to you truly that the Lord will be the judge of that.

But I have said that I do not want to be you on that day if people are going to hell because of you.

If you don't go to hell yourself, you will at the very least be out of a good reward. Wood, hay, stubble.

I know what you said bro... I can read between the lines. May your judgment be measured in equal portions, in Jesus name.

 

[Angelina]

And there you go, adding two to three more insults on your part.

But I suppose that you are justified in doing so because I have also insulted you in response to your insults against me.

I should have never returned in kind, I apologize.

We ought not to stoop to the level of those who are less than Christian in their conduct.

I wouldn't have bothered at all. If you hadn't of started in the first place bro....

 

[DNB]

The word "Bible" is not even in the Bible. Do you conclude that therefore there is no such thing, or that such a thing does not pertain to real Christianity?

The word Bible is everywhere in Scripture. It simply means 'book' for one. But two, the expressions The Law, Scripture, Parchemins , God's Word, precepts, etc... all refer to either the tangible written Word of God, or the principles and ordination behind it. David refer to it countless times as God's Word, as did Paul, Jesus, Peter, Josiah, Jeremiah, Moses, etc....
Either the word 'bible' or sacred book, or the comprehensible principle of such a canon, is everywhere in Scripture, understandable to all.

 

[marks]

So 'we' are now moving the goal posts on to another verse because noting was gained on the previous one....

I'm sorry, what?

 

[marks]

So 'we' are now moving the goal posts on to another verse because noting was gained on the previous one....deja vu again....

I'm saying an angel directed John to not worship him, Why wouldn't Jesus do the same? Not too cool if Jesus received the worship only rightfully directed to God, unless He is God.

Or are you thinking of something else.

I guess it's those guessing games again!

 

[Renniks]

Do you have an answer to the question I presented with regard to John 17? Never has anyone given me a clear response one way or the other.

Can you tell me what the question was?

 

[APAK]

I'm sorry, what?

You did say Thomas, doubting Thomas right? Begs another verse right?

 

[marks]

You did say Thomas, doubting Thomas right? Begs another verse right?

I'm saying if an angel directed John to not worship the angel, but to worship God Alone, then certainly Jesus would be no less diligent to direct Thomas to not worship Him, rather to worship God alone. Doesn't that seem inconsistent to you, that Jesus would not do that, unless, that is, Jesus were God?

Much love!

 

[DNB]

@APAK, @DNB, and cohorts;

have you considered what it says in Luke 17:11-19?

Luk 17:11, And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee.
Luk 17:12, And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:
Luk 17:13, And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.
Luk 17:14, And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
Luk 17:15, And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
Luk 17:16, And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.
Luk 17:17, And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?
Luk 17:18, There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.
Luk 17:19, And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.

Of course we have JBF, the question is rather, have you with soundness and prudence?
Jesus is clearly deferring all credit and praise from himself, to God. Are you unfamiliar with the principle that all power comes from the Father? Or, the other passages that show how the crowd recognized that only the Father endows men with power? Do you see the dichotomy in the verses below?

Luke 7:16-16
7:16. Fear gripped them all, and they began glorifying God, saying, "A great prophet has arisen among us!" and, "God has visited His people!"

Matthew 9:6-8
9:6. "But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins"--then He said to the paralytic, "Get up, pick up your bed and go home." 7. And he got up and went home. 8. But when the crowds saw this, they were awestruck, and glorified God, who had given such authority to men.

 

[marks]

and there is one that is valid although very unsound. Can you guess which one I think you believe in?

Well. Gee. Let me think a moment.

Hm.

I think . . . that you would say, um . . . that my idea is unsound. Did I guess rightly?

What do you suppose God would say about it if I were to worship - you - and you were OK with that?

Any thoughts on that?

 

[Angelina]

From my studies "ego eimi", I am, the "he" is included in the meaning, so the translation "unless you believe I am he" is perfectly valid, so far as I can tell. In other places ego eimi, I am, is used not for God, just to say, I am a centurian, I am an old man, like that.

23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

I know that many people relate this place to later in the passage where Jesus tells them "before Abraham was, I AM", prefering then the reading, "Unless you believe I AM, you shall die in your sins", making this a requirement of belief in the deity of Christ.

Personally I think it more relates to Jesus telling them He is the One come down from heaven, that's what they have to believe, but also that He's leading up to that stronger declaration, before Abraham was I AM, which to me is unmistakable in itself.

I'm not dogmatic either way, it just makes more sense to me like that.

In Joel, quoted by Peter on Pentecost, God tells us, all who call upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved. I think God makes it simple.

Much love!

@marks, he's talking to the religious Jews leaders, the Pharisees, the teachers of the law and Jews. He is not talking to the gentiles. These folks are already religious. They follow the Law of Moses. They know what the scriptures say from the scrolls they carry. They have knowledge of the coming one. The Messiah. Please note the difference between the Religious Jews and the gentile believers like us. We were not given the law. We did not know anything about Abraham, Isaac or Jacob. That is their history and he is talking to them personally about being the great I AM. He is not talking to the gentiles who were getting saved. That was a simple thing for us, believe, confess, receive, baptism. Acts 2:21, 38. Romans 10:9-10, 13, 1 John 1:9,

 

[APAK]

Well. Gee. Let me think a moment.

Hm.

I think . . . that you would say, um . . . that my idea is unsound. Did I guess rightly?

What do you suppose God would say about it if I were to worship - you - and you were OK with that?

Any thoughts on that?

Remember I answered your #339 post with my #343. Can you answer that post again knowing that you said Thomas, as referring to another verse you want me to pay attention to....after that, the discussion went sideways for some reason

 

[marks]

Remember I answered your #339 post with my #343. Can you answer that post again knowing that you said Thomas, as referring to another verse you want me to pay attention to....after that, the discussion went sideways for some reason

Try to guess your three possible answers? No thank you. If you care to share, terrific. Otherwise, OK.

I've got two items on the table still.

One is that while an angel in Revelation demurred to receive worship from John, Jesus did not demur from receiving worship from Thomas. I think that if Jesus were not God Himself, that was unacceptably remiss of Him.

The other is that if God created Jesus, and that this was His first creation, then God Who loves the Son didn't love the Son before that, because the Son didn't exist. So the God who is love, well, frankly, wasn't. There was no one to love. This would be a God Who changed.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

You couldn't find the word 'trinity' from anywhere within the Bible?

I'm certain that you can't find the word "Bible" anywhere in the Bible. So the Bible must not even pertain to real Christianity.

I'm sorry. I cannot do anything about your foolishness. The onus is on you. When you stand before the throne of God, are you going to say, "Oh sorry God, It was her fault, she made me angry?"

It's alright...I forgive you (for all of your insults).

No, you didn't make me angry...you basically forced the issue so that it would be less foolish to defend myself by boasting than it would be to not boast.

And the foolishness of boasting is not necessarily a sin...Paul did it in 2 Corinthians 11.

@marks, he's talking to the religious Jews leaders, the Pharisees, the teachers of the law and Jews. He is not talking to the gentiles. These folks are already religious. They follow the Law of Moses. They know what the scriptures say from the scrolls they carry. They have knowledge of the coming one. The Messiah. Please note the difference between the Religious Jews and the gentile believers like us. We were not given the law. We did not know anything about Abraham, Isaac or Jacob. That is their history and he is talking to them personally about being the great I AM. He is not talking to the gentiles who were getting saved. That was a simple thing for us, believe, confess, receive, baptism. Acts 2:21, 38. Romans 10:9-10, 13, 1 John 1:9,

That is a good point.

I would still say that if anyone is truly born again, they will not ever reject the doctrine of Christ's Deity.

If, by the time they die, they have not yet come across John 1:1-3,14 as a believer, I would be very surprised.

But if they have come across it and reject its message, they can only do so if they reject the plenary inspiration of scripture. And if they do that, they cannot be true Christians (of the born again type). And only those who are born again will inherit the kingdom of God (see John 3:3).

 

[justbyfaith]

To @APAK and @DNB and cohorts,

Luke 17:11-19 stands as evidence, if not proof, that Jesus is God.

I knew from the getgo that you would have some kind of alternate interpretation that denies this truth.

But I just wanted to present it as one more piece of evidence that might be the final straw against your resistance to the truth.