The rich man and the beggar at his gate?

[Marymog]

Sorry I got cut off before; so you could append my post with “afterlife of the soul” Which is basically where you’re trying to get right

Sooooo your saying that your post should read; Rome introduced the concept of "afterlife of the soul" that the Jews dont have.....

 

[bbyrd009]

Sooooo your saying that your post should read; Rome introduced the concept of "afterlife of the soul" that the Jews dont have.....

i would prolly qualify it more, but yes

 

[Renniks]

ah well Scripture already says that in many places, right, so i suspect that a contemporary audience just would have heard the Lazarus story diff than us prolly. Rome introduced the concept of "afterlife" that the Jews dont have, so that kind of changes how we read i guess, we surely make assumptions that would never have occurred to them.
Plus i guess you would have been wondering if Jesus was talking about you not buying bread too, right? So iow ppl...can only hear according to their experience prolly, but you gotta admit that Jesus would also not be negating any other Scripture right

Scripture said what?
Who is this contemporary audience?
Jesus would not be negating other scripture by this story, no. But he certainly would if he taught soul sleep.

 

[bbyrd009]

certainly, huh? ok

Scripture said what?

you and your sons will be here with me, No one has ever gone up to heaven, There is only One Immortal, all go to the same place, He who seeks to save his soul will lose it, etc

Who is this contemporary audience?

the contemporary audience would have been first century Israelites, right? Greeks too, maybe? I dunno, inhabitants of the known world at the time? But i guess "Lazarus" would carry a special meaning for the Israelites, based upon their reverence for Eleazar
http://www.zianet.com/maxey/reflx270.htm
Bible Gateway passage: 4 Maccabees 7 - New Revised Standard Version
ELEAZAR I. (LAZAR) (Eleazar b. Shammua') - JewishEncyclopedia.com

 

[Waiting on him]

certainly, huh? ok
you and your sons will be here with me, No one has ever gone up to heaven, There is only One Immortal, all go to the same place, He who seeks to save his soul will lose it, etc

the contemporary audience would have been first century Israelites, right? Greeks too, maybe? I dunno, inhabitants of the known world at the time? But i guess "Lazarus" would carry a special meaning for the Israelites, based upon their reverence for Eleazar
http://www.zianet.com/maxey/reflx270.htm
Bible Gateway passage: 4 Maccabees 7 - New Revised Standard Version
ELEAZAR I. (LAZAR) (Eleazar b. Shammua') - JewishEncyclopedia.com

You have to understand, that to receive this is to accept that your enemies are not necessarily God's enemies?

 

[Waiting on him]

certainly, huh? ok
you and your sons will be here with me, No one has ever gone up to heaven, There is only One Immortal, all go to the same place, He who seeks to save his soul will lose it, etc

the contemporary audience would have been first century Israelites, right? Greeks too, maybe? I dunno, inhabitants of the known world at the time? But i guess "Lazarus" would carry a special meaning for the Israelites, based upon their reverence for Eleazar
http://www.zianet.com/maxey/reflx270.htm
Bible Gateway passage: 4 Maccabees 7 - New Revised Standard Version
ELEAZAR I. (LAZAR) (Eleazar b. Shammua') - JewishEncyclopedia.com

I mean to say that if there is no hell, then all who have been cursed there for millinia by Christians ?

 

[bbyrd009]

I mean to say that if there is no hell, then all who have been cursed there for millinia by Christians ?

ha well, "Christians" in whom there is supposed to be no condemnation right?
If you dig a pit for others to fall into, you end up in it yourself
(Imo see how easily they get offended, is my test anyway)
i mean bc anyone can say "i am a Christian," right; prolly even falls under
if i testify of myself, my testimony is invalid
Many will cry 'LordLord'

 

[Waiting on him]

ha well, "Christians" in whom there is supposed to be no condemnation right?
If you dig a pit for others to fall into, you end up in it yourself
(Imo see how easily they get offended, is my test anyway)
i mean bc anyone can say "i am a Christian," right; prolly even falls under
if i testify of myself, my testimony is invalid
Many will cry 'LordLord'

I would hope they won't be found naked!

 

[bbyrd009]

ha, exactly

Sooooo your saying that your post should read; Rome introduced the concept of "afterlife of the soul" that the Jews dont have.....

'sup mary, i dont recall ever getting a Last Word in around you
i hear you searching back there
finding the Awful Truth about the Cult of Sol now, are you?

 

[Renniks]

I mean to say that if there is no hell, then all who have been cursed there for millinia by Christians ?

That makes no sense. If there's no hell, Christians didn't curse anyone to hell. Not that they did anyway. People curse themselves to hell.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Ecclesiastes 9:5 KJV
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

 

[Waiting on him]

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

It's confusing to me, but the mindset seems to be if he'll doesn't exist " how will we be vindicated"?

 

[GISMYS_7]

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Yes!!! God allowed Soloman to give his opinion. Ecclesiastes 1:1 The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.

 

[Marymog]

i would prolly qualify it more, but yes

then my answer is the same

 

[Marymog]

ha, exactly

'sup mary, i dont recall ever getting a Last Word in around you
i hear you searching back there
finding the Awful Truth about the Cult of Sol now, are you?

Lol....not searching....spending time with fam and eating dinner.

keep up your bizarre lies and twisting of scripture....and yes, you can keep trolling me.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 . . . For the living know that they shall die: but the dead
know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory
of them is forgotten.

Christ's teachings trump Solomon's

● Matt 12:42 . .The queen of the south will be raised up in the judgment
with this generation and will condemn it; because she came from the ends of
the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, but, look! something more than
Solomon is here.

Solomon wrote the book of Ecclesiastes from the perspective of a
philosophical man who's understanding of life and the hereafter is
moderated by empirical evidence and the normal round of human
experience. Ecclesiastes is handy for showing that not all spiritual people are
kooks with their heads in the clouds and unable to see things as they are
through the eyes of normal people.

To my knowledge, Solomon had never seen the afterlife for himself, viz: he
wasn't an expert witness; whereas Christ had seen the afterlife for himself
and knew what he was talking about.

● John 3:31-32 . . He who comes from above is above all, he who is of the
earth is from the earth and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven
is above all. What He has seen and heard, of that he bears witness.

Christ is also highly recommended, whereas to my knowledge, Solomon
isn't.

● Matt 17:5 . . This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved; listen to
him.

So then, when encountering remarks in the book of Ecclesiastes that are out
of step with the Christ's teachings in the New Testament; my unsolicited
spiritual counseling is to ignore Solomon and go with the wisdom of "my
Son".

● John 8:12 . . I am the light of the world. He that follows me will by no
means walk in darkness, but will possess the light of life.

FAQ: Doesn't the apostle Paul say that all Scripture is God breathed?

A: Every now and then I encounter people on internet forums who've yet to
be taught the difference between inspiration and dictation.

Solomon was no doubt inspired to record his personal world view in the book
of Ecclesiastes, but we shouldn't assume his world view quotes God word
for-word the way Christ does.

● John 3:34 . . For he is sent by God. He speaks God's words, for God's
Spirit is upon him without measure or limit

● John 8:26 . .He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things
which I have heard of Him.

● John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things as
the Father taught me.

● John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

● John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who
sent me.

Jesus is superior to the prophets that came before him.

● John 1:1-14 . . In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with
God, and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt
among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the
Father,) full of grace and truth.
_

 

[Waiting on him]

.

Christ's teachings trump Solomon's

● Matt 12:42 . .The queen of the south will be raised up in the judgment
with this generation and will condemn it; because she came from the ends of
the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, but, look! something more than
Solomon is here.

Solomon wrote the book of Ecclesiastes from the perspective of a
philosophical man who's understanding of life and the hereafter is
moderated by empirical evidence and the normal round of human
experience. Ecclesiastes is handy for showing that not all spiritual people are
kooks with their heads in the clouds and unable to see things as they are
through the eyes of normal people.

To my knowledge, Solomon had never seen the afterlife for himself, viz: he
wasn't an expert witness; whereas Christ had seen the afterlife for himself
and knew what he was talking about.

● John 3:31-32 . . He who comes from above is above all, he who is of the
earth is from the earth and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven
is above all. What He has seen and heard, of that he bears witness.

Christ is also highly recommended, whereas to my knowledge, Solomon
isn't.

● Matt 17:5 . . This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved; listen to
him.

So then, when encountering remarks in the book of Ecclesiastes that are out
of step with the Christ's teachings in the New Testament; my unsolicited
spiritual counseling is to ignore Solomon and go with the wisdom of "my
Son".

Too many people regard Christ as just another prophet with no more
authority than prophets before him. That is a very, very big mistake.

● John 8:12 . . I am the light of the world. He that follows me will by no
means walk in darkness, but will possess the light of life.

FAQ: Doesn't the apostle Paul say that all Scripture is God breathed?

A: Every now and then I encounter people on internet forums who've yet to
be taught the difference between inspiration and dictation.

Solomon was no doubt inspired to record his personal world view in the book
of Ecclesiastes, but it's a mistake to assume his world view quotes the
Father word-for-word the way Christ does.

● John 1:1-14 . . In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with
God, and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt
among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the
Father,) full of grace and truth.

● John 3:34 . . For he is sent by God. He speaks God's words, for God's
Spirit is upon him without measure or limit

● John 8:26 . .He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things
which I have heard of Him.

● John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things as
the Father taught me.

● John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

● John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who
sent me.
_

Pump the brakes there Webster, im not saying there's no hell. Jesus told the religious elite of his time they'd cross seas to make one a prostolyte, and turn them into twice the son of Hell that they were. This is what I'm trying to tell all the elite now hell is within those not born of God, it's just simple as that it's alienation from Him. He even says the tongue is full of it.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Solomon's man under the sun feels there is no conscious existence for
people beyond the death of their body; whereas Christ taught that one's soul
doesn't necessarily perish with the body.

● Matt 10:28 . . Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the
soul.

According to Gen 2:7, the soul is what makes people sentient beings. Christ
assures us that part of human existence is able to survive the death of the
body; but it's still vulnerable to termination.

● Matt 10:28 . . Be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in
hell.

FAQ: If the soul and the body are destroyed in hell; what's left?

A: The spirit.

Christ's spirit survived the death of his body.

● Luke 23:46 . . Jesus called out with a loud voice: Father, into your hands I
entrust my spirit.

People's spirit is just as much a component of their human existence as the
soul and the body; for example:

● Heb 12:23 . . the spirits of righteous men made perfect
_

 

[Waiting on him]

.
Solomon's man under the sun feels there is no conscious existence for
people beyond the death of their body; whereas Christ taught that one's soul
doesn't necessarily perish with the body.

● Matt 10:28 . . Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the
soul.

According to Gen 2:7, the soul is what makes people sentient beings. Christ
assures us that part of human existence is able to survive the death of the
body; but it's still vulnerable to termination.

● Matt 10:28 . . Be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in
hell.

FAQ: If the soul and the body are destroyed in hell; what's left?

A: The spirit.

Christ's spirit survived the death of his body.

● Luke 23:46 . . Jesus called out with a loud voice: Father, into your hands I
entrust my spirit.

People's spirit is just as much a component of their human existence as the
soul and the body; for example:

● Heb 12:23 . . the spirits of righteous men made perfect
_

Although respectfully He doesn't say where hell is. There are not a lot of descriptions of hell in the scripture in my opinion. The ones that I'm aware of say there are worms there and scripture also says there is a solar cycle there.

 

[bbyrd009]

Lol....not searching....spending time with fam and eating dinner.

keep up your bizarre lies and twisting of scripture....and yes, you can keep trolling me.

sounds kinda desperate, mary