Everyone should take some time to read this thanks for sharing Willie.
The rich man and the beggar at his gate?
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Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
Matt 13:34 and Mark 4:3 are often cited as proof that when Jesus spoke to
crowds, he spoke only in parables and never in plain speech. However, the
gist of those two references merely indicates that Jesus always included at
least one parable in his sermons rather than that his sermons were spoken
only in parable form.
In point of fact, many of the Lord's sermons preached to crowds were plain
spoken without hidden meanings; for example Mark 12:35-37 which says;
"While Jesus was teaching in the temple courts, he asked: How is it that the
teachers of the law say that the Christ is the son of David? David himself,
speaking by the Holy Spirit, declared:
The Lord said to my Lord: Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies
under your feet.
David himself calls him "Lord." How then can he be his son?
The large crowd listened to him with delight."
Jesus was speaking that day in the Temple courtyard which, at the time, was
a convenient venue for anybody with the moxie and the wherewithal to set
up a soap box and preach to one and all who cared to listen. He went on to
say other plain-spoken things to the crowd that day sans hidden meanings.
For example Mark 12:38-40 which says:
"As he taught, Jesus said: Watch out for the teachers of the law. They like to
walk around in flowing robes and be greeted in the marketplaces, and have
the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at
banquets. They devour widows' houses and for a show make lengthy
prayers. Such men will be punished most severely."
_
Matt 13:34 and Mark 4:3 are often cited as proof that when Jesus spoke to
crowds, he spoke only in parables and never in plain speech. However, the
gist of those two references merely indicates that Jesus always included at
least one parable in his sermons rather than that his sermons were spoken
only in parable form.
In point of fact, many of the Lord's sermons preached to crowds were plain
spoken without hidden meanings; for example Mark 12:35-37 which says;
"While Jesus was teaching in the temple courts, he asked: How is it that the
teachers of the law say that the Christ is the son of David? David himself,
speaking by the Holy Spirit, declared:
The Lord said to my Lord: Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies
under your feet.
David himself calls him "Lord." How then can he be his son?
The large crowd listened to him with delight."
Jesus was speaking that day in the Temple courtyard which, at the time, was
a convenient venue for anybody with the moxie and the wherewithal to set
up a soap box and preach to one and all who cared to listen. He went on to
say other plain-spoken things to the crowd that day sans hidden meanings.
For example Mark 12:38-40 which says:
"As he taught, Jesus said: Watch out for the teachers of the law. They like to
walk around in flowing robes and be greeted in the marketplaces, and have
the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at
banquets. They devour widows' houses and for a show make lengthy
prayers. Such men will be punished most severely."
_
Paul said to the Ephesian elders in Acts 20: 'Feed the flock of God'.
101G
Well-Known Member
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
● Luke 16:25 . . Abraham said: Son, remember . . .
The older people get, the more memories they accumulate, and many of
those memories haunt us with terrible regret. However, people in Hades not
only have to cope with their bad memories, but also the good ones too, and
I should think it's remembering the good things they enjoyed in life that
makes their situation only worse in the heat.
● Luke 16:25 . . . during your lifetime you had everything you wanted
If everybody was born and raised in Hades; and never once ventured out;
that would be the only life they've ever known, so they wouldn't have a clue
what it's like to really live. For them the old maxim "Ignorance is bliss"
would certainly hold true.
FAQ: How do people retain memories without the brain they left behind in
their corpse?
Q: In the world of computer programming, there are a number of file
transfer protocols in common use.
It's not unreasonable to suggest that God has similar protocols for
transferring the data from minds in this life to minds in the next.
This is at least one of the reasons why I don't recommend suicide to escape
emotional travail because whatever it is that's bothering people in this life,
they pick up right where they left off on the other side.
» The rich man was suffering anxiety over the possibility of his kin following
him right down to where he was. (I use past tense grammar because by now
they've joined him.)
_
● Luke 16:25 . . Abraham said: Son, remember . . .
The older people get, the more memories they accumulate, and many of
those memories haunt us with terrible regret. However, people in Hades not
only have to cope with their bad memories, but also the good ones too, and
I should think it's remembering the good things they enjoyed in life that
makes their situation only worse in the heat.
● Luke 16:25 . . . during your lifetime you had everything you wanted
If everybody was born and raised in Hades; and never once ventured out;
that would be the only life they've ever known, so they wouldn't have a clue
what it's like to really live. For them the old maxim "Ignorance is bliss"
would certainly hold true.
FAQ: How do people retain memories without the brain they left behind in
their corpse?
Q: In the world of computer programming, there are a number of file
transfer protocols in common use.
It's not unreasonable to suggest that God has similar protocols for
transferring the data from minds in this life to minds in the next.
This is at least one of the reasons why I don't recommend suicide to escape
emotional travail because whatever it is that's bothering people in this life,
they pick up right where they left off on the other side.
» The rich man was suffering anxiety over the possibility of his kin following
him right down to where he was. (I use past tense grammar because by now
they've joined him.)
_
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
● Luke 16:25 . . Abraham said: Son
Abraham produced progeny by a number of women: Hagar, Sarah, and
Keturah, along with a number of nondescript concubines. But seeing as how
Abraham directed this son to listen to Moses and the prophets; then I'm of
the opinion that his son in this narrative is a Jew traceable back down the
line to Sarah via Isaac and Jacob.
I don't expect the event depicted at Rev 20:11-15 to be pleasant. Parents
will have to watch as their children become literally pale with terror, lips
trembling, mouths too dry to speak, shrieking, sobbing, screaming, weeping,
yelping, and bellowing like wounded dogs as their eyes dart about in sheer
white-knuckled panic, desperately looking for someone, anyone, to help
them as powerful celestial beings drag them off to death akin to a foundry
worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.
Paul said the greatest of all gifts is love. But let me tell you something: love
is inconvenient. A sensitive parent cannot sit through a scene like the one
described above and not be moved by it.
I was asked once by a skeptic how I could possibly be happy in heaven
knowing that members of my family circle are forever lost; suffering in hell.
I grant it will be difficult to bear at first, the grief will be so overwhelming
that nothing less than the power of God will suffice to get parents over it.
● Rev 21:3-4 . . Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with
them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be
their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more
death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed
away.
_
● Luke 16:25 . . Abraham said: Son
Abraham produced progeny by a number of women: Hagar, Sarah, and
Keturah, along with a number of nondescript concubines. But seeing as how
Abraham directed this son to listen to Moses and the prophets; then I'm of
the opinion that his son in this narrative is a Jew traceable back down the
line to Sarah via Isaac and Jacob.
I don't expect the event depicted at Rev 20:11-15 to be pleasant. Parents
will have to watch as their children become literally pale with terror, lips
trembling, mouths too dry to speak, shrieking, sobbing, screaming, weeping,
yelping, and bellowing like wounded dogs as their eyes dart about in sheer
white-knuckled panic, desperately looking for someone, anyone, to help
them as powerful celestial beings drag them off to death akin to a foundry
worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.
Paul said the greatest of all gifts is love. But let me tell you something: love
is inconvenient. A sensitive parent cannot sit through a scene like the one
described above and not be moved by it.
I was asked once by a skeptic how I could possibly be happy in heaven
knowing that members of my family circle are forever lost; suffering in hell.
I grant it will be difficult to bear at first, the grief will be so overwhelming
that nothing less than the power of God will suffice to get parents over it.
● Rev 21:3-4 . . Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with
them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be
their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more
death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed
away.
_
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
● Luke 16:31 . . If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will
not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.
In John's gospel; Jesus restored one of his friends to life. It caused a
number of the Jews to believe in him; but there was an element that even
though the resurrection was successful, they not only refused to believe in
Jesus, but they wanted to murder his friend; apparently the man had
become a sort of eighth wonder of the world in those parts and the area's
residents just had to see it for themselves. Many of those folk no doubt
knew the family and had attended the man's funeral.
● John 12:9-11 . . Meanwhile a large crowd of Jews found out that Jesus was
there and came, not only because of him but also to see Lazarus, whom he
had raised from the dead. So the chief priests made plans to kill Lazarus as
well, for on account of him many of the Jews were going over to Jesus and
putting their faith in him.
Now the thing to note is that Jesus' friend was really and truly deceased
rather than in a near-death coma; yet his recovery did not have the desired
effect upon some of the religious elite; which was a real-life validation of the
truth of Abraham's prediction. It's unfortunate that there are a number of
obtuse souls out there for whom no amount of evidence is sufficient to
change their minds.
_
● Luke 16:31 . . If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will
not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.
In John's gospel; Jesus restored one of his friends to life. It caused a
number of the Jews to believe in him; but there was an element that even
though the resurrection was successful, they not only refused to believe in
Jesus, but they wanted to murder his friend; apparently the man had
become a sort of eighth wonder of the world in those parts and the area's
residents just had to see it for themselves. Many of those folk no doubt
knew the family and had attended the man's funeral.
● John 12:9-11 . . Meanwhile a large crowd of Jews found out that Jesus was
there and came, not only because of him but also to see Lazarus, whom he
had raised from the dead. So the chief priests made plans to kill Lazarus as
well, for on account of him many of the Jews were going over to Jesus and
putting their faith in him.
Now the thing to note is that Jesus' friend was really and truly deceased
rather than in a near-death coma; yet his recovery did not have the desired
effect upon some of the religious elite; which was a real-life validation of the
truth of Abraham's prediction. It's unfortunate that there are a number of
obtuse souls out there for whom no amount of evidence is sufficient to
change their minds.
_
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
FAQ: Doesn't the Psalmist say that when a man dies his thoughts perish that
very day?
A: The Hebrew word for "thoughts" in Ps 146:3-4 is 'eshtonah (esh-to naw')
which has nothing to do with either existence or awareness. The word is
very ambiguous and refers to quite a variety of meanings to choose from;
including, but not limited to: concerns, anticipations, conceptions, opinions,
imaginations, visualizations, ideas, epiphanies, plans, schemes, fantasies,
arguments, aspirations, deliberations, and the like.
For the man and his barns in Jesus' parable at Luke 12:16-20; I would
choose ideas, plans, and schemes.
For example: consider all those people who perished in the World Trade
Center, and in the Japan and Indonesia tsunamis, and the Haiti earthquake.
None of them woke that day planning on it being their last on earth. No, on
the contrary; they had people to see, places to go, and things to do: but
before the day ended; whatever was on their itinerary lost its importance--
their priorities went right out the window and became no more significant
than green cheese on the moon.
All their plans, their dreams, their schedules, their appointments, their
schemes, their problems, their ambitions, their loves, and their aspirations
went right down the tubes as they were suddenly confronted with a whole
new reality to cope with.
The fact is: Ps 146:3-4 doesn't mean that people cease to exist when they
die, nor do they lose awareness; no, it only means that whatever was on
their minds before they passed away is now null and void.
Take for example Michael Jackson. While working on a new world tour,
Jackson died in his sleep. As a result; his tour wrapped on the spot.
When my eldest nephew was paroled from prison, he quit drinking, and
began going to college with the goal towards becoming a counselor. For 2½
years all went well. His parole officer was happy, and he was on track and
getting good grades. My nephew's future looked assured. And then on the
morning of Sept 25, 2015, he dropped dead to the floor of natural causes.
My nephew's passing was a terrible disappointment to everybody; but
actually we all kind of expected it. He was grossly overweight, had high
blood pressure and high cholesterol, rarely exercised, and smoked. But the
point is; my nephew's dream ended just as abruptly as flipping a light
switch. And all of our hopes for his success ended the same way, viz: our
thoughts perished right along with his.
Death is the mortal enemy of human ambitions. It often casts its long
shadow when they set about planning their lives. The Scottish poet Robert
Burns noticed that life sometimes throws a curve ball that makes all your
careful preparations strike out instead of getting you on base.
He was working one day plowing in the field and uprooted a mouse's
underground nest who was all set for the oncoming winter. The mouse had
picked a fallow field as the site for its winter retreat thinking it would be safe
and snug; unmolested during the cold. But it didn't (or maybe we should say
it couldn't) know the workings of powers higher than itself-- in this case,
farmers and their machinery.
Mousie, you are not alone in proving foresight may be vain.
The best laid schemes of mice and men go often askew,
And leave us naught but grief and pain for promised joy.
_
FAQ: Doesn't the Psalmist say that when a man dies his thoughts perish that
very day?
A: The Hebrew word for "thoughts" in Ps 146:3-4 is 'eshtonah (esh-to naw')
which has nothing to do with either existence or awareness. The word is
very ambiguous and refers to quite a variety of meanings to choose from;
including, but not limited to: concerns, anticipations, conceptions, opinions,
imaginations, visualizations, ideas, epiphanies, plans, schemes, fantasies,
arguments, aspirations, deliberations, and the like.
For the man and his barns in Jesus' parable at Luke 12:16-20; I would
choose ideas, plans, and schemes.
For example: consider all those people who perished in the World Trade
Center, and in the Japan and Indonesia tsunamis, and the Haiti earthquake.
None of them woke that day planning on it being their last on earth. No, on
the contrary; they had people to see, places to go, and things to do: but
before the day ended; whatever was on their itinerary lost its importance--
their priorities went right out the window and became no more significant
than green cheese on the moon.
All their plans, their dreams, their schedules, their appointments, their
schemes, their problems, their ambitions, their loves, and their aspirations
went right down the tubes as they were suddenly confronted with a whole
new reality to cope with.
The fact is: Ps 146:3-4 doesn't mean that people cease to exist when they
die, nor do they lose awareness; no, it only means that whatever was on
their minds before they passed away is now null and void.
Take for example Michael Jackson. While working on a new world tour,
Jackson died in his sleep. As a result; his tour wrapped on the spot.
When my eldest nephew was paroled from prison, he quit drinking, and
began going to college with the goal towards becoming a counselor. For 2½
years all went well. His parole officer was happy, and he was on track and
getting good grades. My nephew's future looked assured. And then on the
morning of Sept 25, 2015, he dropped dead to the floor of natural causes.
My nephew's passing was a terrible disappointment to everybody; but
actually we all kind of expected it. He was grossly overweight, had high
blood pressure and high cholesterol, rarely exercised, and smoked. But the
point is; my nephew's dream ended just as abruptly as flipping a light
switch. And all of our hopes for his success ended the same way, viz: our
thoughts perished right along with his.
Death is the mortal enemy of human ambitions. It often casts its long
shadow when they set about planning their lives. The Scottish poet Robert
Burns noticed that life sometimes throws a curve ball that makes all your
careful preparations strike out instead of getting you on base.
He was working one day plowing in the field and uprooted a mouse's
underground nest who was all set for the oncoming winter. The mouse had
picked a fallow field as the site for its winter retreat thinking it would be safe
and snug; unmolested during the cold. But it didn't (or maybe we should say
it couldn't) know the workings of powers higher than itself-- in this case,
farmers and their machinery.
Mousie, you are not alone in proving foresight may be vain.
The best laid schemes of mice and men go often askew,
And leave us naught but grief and pain for promised joy.
_
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
If you want to believe that because some people consider this story to be a parable/illustration and that parables/illustrations in scripture are wrong to be in Scripture because they're showing God to be dishonest, that's on you. I certainly don't believe it's wrong on Jesus part to speak in parables/illustrations. So just because others believe the rich man and the beggar story to be a parable doesn't mean that they think God or his Only Begotten Son to be liars just because you and others think so. In fact you seem to be the one who's judging God, not anyone else. Jesus used parables in the scriptures and if Jesus wants to use a person such as Abraham in one of his parables/illustrations he's not wrong in any way for doing so, just because you say it's wrong.
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