Oh boy yeah! And to compound matters, we are capable of holding 2 opposing views at once and not even seeing we are doing it.
Fear God or Presume acceptance
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Oh boy yeah! And to compound matters, we are capable of holding 2 opposing views at once and not even seeing we are doing it.
And there you have set your limit again - you are okay with praying, but because of the nonsense you have seen go on, that's all the further you will go or allow God to go.
Epi wasn't saying you are against prayer. There is being led by the Spirit and, yes, He works in your heart. But there is something further too, there is actually walking in the Spirit. You cant learn how to do it or force your way to it and epi isn't putting you down because God hasn't taken you into that yet. I am not there either. He is trying to help you to not reject the possibility of it. The apostles walked there and God wrought miracles through them, so we know it is possible. So leave room for it is what he is saying. Consider that there might be more than you have yet experienced that God wants for you. All he was saying is to leave room for God and do not limit Him just because men can be ridiculous.
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You assume I do not know what walking in the Spirit is. I walk in the Spirit most of my life, and live by faith. I have an old school friend who speaks words of knowledge all the time and claims to be sensitive to the Spirit. Unfortunately he neither knows me or what my heart is.
My conclusion is most of what people are talking about is their own imaginations. Now many might call this me having experience of false people etc. I would rather say this is people who have a very strong wish fulfilment and would rather believe it is God than their own enthusiasm.
As far as Epi goes, to summarise, his "experience" makes you perfect, this higher plain of spirituality in the heavenlies. And I know this because I have spoken with him.
What I have realised, it is like a bolt from the blue, Jesus's words are it, plain and simple, like any relationship, not that complicated, but certainly that blunt.
I passed messages with one blessed brother, who worked for a missionary society. His heart longed for the touch that came in the 1970's in the charismatic revival. He would support anyone who was remotely like this to get back to that place, no matter how heretical. If you want testimony of a drug addict that is it. His daily walk with God was not enough. But this is not of the Lord, it is not His goal or vision, why He came and shared with us.
The cross is enough, knowing love and Jesus is enough. And I mean this from the bottom of my heart, this is the deepest spiritual reality anyone can know. It is not quoting scripture, it is reality which Paul said like this
8 What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ
9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith.
10 I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
Phil 3:8-10
17 And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love,
18 may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ,
19 and to know this love that surpasses knowledge--that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.
Eph 3:17-19
This is where spiritual maturity and truth is grounded, literally and eternally. These are emotional and spiritual realities. But for the hard hearted they literally do not see the words, because it has no echo in their hearts, it is just nice sentiments. But this is Pauls life, this is his motivation and the reason he was prepared to die for Christ, to live and suffer and sing praises to God, Amen, thank you Jesus.
When any "spiritual" experience becomes greater than this, it is not of God.
Now I can sway like the best pentecostal charismatics and feel God blessing, but it is in Christ is the fulfilment of its reality. And some people can get so high, they cannot tell the difference between the Lord and their euphoria. So I know of what I speak and why, and how many are just missing reality in Christ and filling in with something else. God bless you
By the way I am a charismatic believer who holds to the gifts are active today.
But as I said 40 years ago, it is love and our hearts that are Jesus's desire and burden, not whether we are focused on the gifts and the supernatural.
To know Jesus is the Christ is through the Father and is supernatural, because that is what being born again is.
I also explained earlier, faith leads us to communion with Jesus in our hearts, in our prayer life, in our emotional and spiritual life. It is ecstatic and wonderful, a glory to behold as we fellowship with Him.
What is a wonder is why people devalue this experience but their own is the authentic reality which is far superior to anothers or being honest about frauds, miss-appropriation of works of God means you do not follow or have them oneself. One fellowship I was part of, has now become a large fellowship and the pastor a recognised representative of the church. Unfortunately this brother went into the prosperity gospel and Benny Hinn etc. I remember being blessed in his ministry, and words the Lord spoke to my heart, he preached on to the congregation. It was like we were plugged into the same Lord.
My dilemma is where is he really. He is before the Lord, but such a mixed up bag he is offering.
I suspect the Lord lets us exercise our love for Him as we desire, and at the end of all things we will be called to answer. I am very dull in heart, because of course the Lord does this, it is His heart that we freely shine or do not as love works its way through.
So my love expresses as I do, and in the Lord I am truly blessed and rejoicing and need nothing more, Amen. God bless you
But as I said 40 years ago, it is love and our hearts that are Jesus's desire and burden, not whether we are focused on the gifts and the supernatural.
To know Jesus is the Christ is through the Father and is supernatural, because that is what being born again is.
I also explained earlier, faith leads us to communion with Jesus in our hearts, in our prayer life, in our emotional and spiritual life. It is ecstatic and wonderful, a glory to behold as we fellowship with Him.
What is a wonder is why people devalue this experience but their own is the authentic reality which is far superior to anothers or being honest about frauds, miss-appropriation of works of God means you do not follow or have them oneself. One fellowship I was part of, has now become a large fellowship and the pastor a recognised representative of the church. Unfortunately this brother went into the prosperity gospel and Benny Hinn etc. I remember being blessed in his ministry, and words the Lord spoke to my heart, he preached on to the congregation. It was like we were plugged into the same Lord.
My dilemma is where is he really. He is before the Lord, but such a mixed up bag he is offering.
I suspect the Lord lets us exercise our love for Him as we desire, and at the end of all things we will be called to answer. I am very dull in heart, because of course the Lord does this, it is His heart that we freely shine or do not as love works its way through.
So my love expresses as I do, and in the Lord I am truly blessed and rejoicing and need nothing more, Amen. God bless you
The sad thing with forums is we are all strangers, completely to each other, and have a very mixed bag of experiences and even theology. It is easy to assume people express things from a common perspective but the reality is unless this common ground is established, it is not actually common.
There are though some clear shared foundational principles that can be agreed upon, which is how the denominations have come about. What I have a tension over is the emotional conclusions some come with, as if they have some spiritual gift or deep insight. Being on the receiving end of much of this, it makes you realise wherever they got it from it has nothing to do with one individually.
It maybe our emotional conclusions are valid, but the emotional conclusion to encourage, to uplift, to share ones own experiences, and then let others benefit and be encouraged is amen. Once it becomes I have this which trumps yours, things fall apart.
Some call this boasting, talking about what one has, but I see this as testimony of Gods work in our lives not of ourselves, and the very thing His body is to do and is our lifeblood, Christ working in us. I remember when I was praying about Jesus coming and dying for us and being raised again, it felt like such a blessing, such a wonder, such a revelation. This is not unusual for believers, but when I shared it, some felt put down, oh you had this, what have I had? But this is not what this is, it is seeing the reality in our hearts and them being stirred. The stirring is not the point, the reality is.
I have a friend, or on his terms, acquaintance, who wants God to move in his life. He is so insecure everyone is a poles length away from him. A person let alone God can ever get close. When we lift the lid on what we care about, we often discover how deep or shallow it goes. But often we will talk like it is some dramatic reality, or none at all, and the opposite is actually true.
So it is not surprising forums and discussions are not what they often appear to be.
I find that inappropriate emotions derive from faulty beliefs. In finding the faulty belief, and correcting it to a Biblical view, the emotions then rectify to what is appropriate to the moment.
Much love!
Amen!
We're to let the peace of Christ rule in our hearts, and yes, exactly, that first flash of some emotion not compatible with the Spirit, whether anger, hurt, fear, and not just when someone speaks sharply. People can feel threatened by other's posts I think. Challenged against something you hold dear, but not understanding fully how to respond to someone else's arguments.
And for some, it seems like just a normal response to someone has a different idea.
I agree. That feeling of hurt I think comes from the belief that I have a "right" to be accepted, or approved, or even to be thought of a certain way. So when that doesn't happen we can feel violated.
Dying to rights . . . that's the same as dying to self.
I see this in correcting our beliefs. "Then go to a world that is dying, His perfect salvation to tell . . ." We have a mission from God, to build His church, both by adding to it, and increasing the faith of those in it.
As this is God's will, to trust in Jesus and love others, ANYTHING contrary to that is of the flesh, including having our feelings hurt. The only thing that should hurt us are those things that hurt God, we should think of Him that way.
So then, you may ask, is the point of bringing it up when someone writes something a little snarky? Only that it diverts a discussion into a pointless direction, and, if the faulty reasoning stands, may be used to dismiss without cause an entirely valid thought.
I think discussions without those little interruptions are far more fruitful, and sometimes a garden can use a little weeding to make if flourish.
Much love!
Which spiritual part is lacking, that part when you know you can actually have Christ now, that part when you know you can have a conversation with God, that part when you know that Christ died so you could have access to the father, that part when you know that the truth is in Christ and with out Him teaching you, you know nothing. When one loves someone all the desire to do is know them, how can you know someone you dont believe can talk to you, reality, is knowing God is, He is not a figment of my imagination, He is there for anyone who will give Him a go, You speak of a higher calling, that is walking with Christ as we should all be, but if you cant hear Him than who is it you are listening too.
Luk_1:51 He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
our hearts deceive us without Christ we have nothing
Luk_1:51 He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
our hearts deceive us without Christ we have nothing
Let us suppose you are right. I do not know Jesus and you have Jesus teaching you. You are claiming Jesus is audibly speaking to you, and you are plugged into Him unlike 99% of all believers in the world.
So with your great inspiration, what can you share? It appears nothing more than scripture already declares.
Now if this higher calling is superior to mine, in what ways?
Jesus was quite specific, obey His commands, listen to Him and His words. You seem to have missed the obvious point. Whether you go up to heaven for a face to face encounter with Jesus, His commands and ways remain the same. In fact I would say if everyone had your experience it would detract from the reality of a humble, contrite walk with Jesus here on earth.
Jesus's parable of Abraham's discussion with the rich man in hades says something very profound which I think you need to hear.
He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'
Luke 16:31
The principles of repentance and the straight path have never changed, it does not matter who preaches it, sinful man will still not listen.
I feel sad, because not only are you claiming some superior experience you are also denying the straight path.
It suggests whatever you revelation and experience it is, it is not from the Lord.
A good illustration of this reality is the rich young man, who acknowledged Jesus was a teacher. Sell all you have and give it to the poor and come and follow me. He went away sad, because this thing he could not do.
As a simple observation many psychotic individuals see people who are real and they talk to them, for some every single day.
This effect is real and continues for some throughout their lives.
All spiritual experiences going to other places, not normal things, need verifying and checking the authority by which they speak has any relevance or value above any other form of communication. When people are grieving to imagine a lost partner or friend says, "I am alright, do not worry, its all ok" sounds fantastic, except the medium could just be making it all up.
If you can speak to a spirit, in whatever form, why should this spirit have any more knowledge or authority than anyone you randomly meet in the street. Just because it seems awe inspiring means nothing. If we lived on the knowledge given to us from dreams we would seriously be in a mess.
The power of Jesus and the gospel is to ground people in love and service, seeing things as they are and working with them. It is why believers tend to shy away from "Thus says the Lord" to how does Christs love in my heart lead me to act in this situation which is 100% more helpful.
God bless you
This effect is real and continues for some throughout their lives.
All spiritual experiences going to other places, not normal things, need verifying and checking the authority by which they speak has any relevance or value above any other form of communication. When people are grieving to imagine a lost partner or friend says, "I am alright, do not worry, its all ok" sounds fantastic, except the medium could just be making it all up.
If you can speak to a spirit, in whatever form, why should this spirit have any more knowledge or authority than anyone you randomly meet in the street. Just because it seems awe inspiring means nothing. If we lived on the knowledge given to us from dreams we would seriously be in a mess.
The power of Jesus and the gospel is to ground people in love and service, seeing things as they are and working with them. It is why believers tend to shy away from "Thus says the Lord" to how does Christs love in my heart lead me to act in this situation which is 100% more helpful.
God bless you
This is why we need so much patience with each other!
My thought has come to be that we may have any number of experiences and revelations, that are in truth from God, but that these don't necessarily confer any benefit to anyone else.
Things I've experienced have, I think, served to build my faith, but don't build yours. But in that it points me to Scripture with greater belief, then I can more surely offer Scripture, with the greater certainty, and a greater understanding.
I think sometimes supernatural experiences can even work against us, if we take away the wrong idea, that somehow this makes us special, or that "unless you've had my experience you cannot attain to my level", which we see sometimes.
I believe that all these things are intended to build up the plodding terrestrial sort of life that some of these folk seem to disdain. But God has given us the Rule of Thumb.
Our walk is by faith and not by sight. If God has us walking by sight surely that is remedial, and is getting us ready to walk by faith.
Much love!
I agree with you that experiences by their nature can be very personal.
One individual who was an extreme legalist had a revelation of God's love of him, that changed his life. He came away concluding God loved him despite anything he did, and those with a strong moral framework were the enemy who had led him astray since his youth, and should be thrown out of the church.
It was odd that love should create such a hatred in his spirit. It has made me realise what God can reveal to people with free will is limited, because it easily goes wrong and the wrong emphasis results, that in someways can be worse than the previous state.
A friend of mine was heart broken. He had been in a prayer meeting, where the group had been anointed like it was heaven and Jesus was walking by. They were filled with such joy and happiness. The word came a time of testing would follow. He was heart broken because he felt he had failed the test. What he was not able to see, in being heart broken, he showed how deeply he loved Jesus and could walk on. Peter had this experience at Jesus's trial.
So I agree some experiences are of the Lord, but how they work out in our lives can be varied. I have serious problems though with heavenly visits and talks with the prophets or Jesus face to face. This often leads to heresy and non-biblical teaching and the exchange here. I know Jesus, you know nothing and do not have Jesus. The reason this is so obviously nuts, the only solution is every believer has to have a heavenly experience themselves to validate the words and intent. But this is clearly neither biblical or what is talked about in scripture. Worse still of all the people who have gone into the heavenlies, they seem to be all different, with different outcomes etc. And once you admit you have got a superspiritual hot line, who needs scripture if you can get it straight from the Lord. That is why 100% we need to be grounded in Gods word and know His will, because love does not rely on voices in the ear, but love from the heart, which is Christ in us, taking us from glory unto glory
God bless you
CAn God help it that 99.9% of believers are not listening,
My sheep hear my voice. and
2Pe_1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
Heb_12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
and than again
Mat 11:16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
Mat 11:17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
Mat 11:18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
Mat 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
Yet still He stands at the doors of men knocking and still they refuse Him entry.
Mat 22:8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
Mat 22:9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage
God has much to sat, peopel just refuse to listen. It is not His doing.
You are right, people hear Jesus and walk away. How many on forums if I share the love of Christ and the straight path say Amen?
Clearly you give no Amen. So why is it your heavenly experience adds nothing, and where is your new content if you talk face to face with Jesus.
Your emotional conclusion is you are ok in sin. That to us is a serious problem, a denial of cleansing and holiness. So what you offer is a sinners Jesus, a peace, peace easy believism.
Reminds me of the laughter anointing, not seeing that the but of the joke is the believer. Delusions are obvious to others. Wealth, greed, self indulgence creates the delusion of safety, except when death comes knocking.
I remember this statement. "I do not even repent anymore." from Kenneth Hagin. A seared conscience, walking in sin and pain, blind to their own harm. No better a definition of a blind slave to sin is needed.
Holiness and purity matter because love flows where cleansed hearts live.
God bless you
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Why so angry, you carry on with lots of lovely writing, you speak of walking in the spirit, yet deny all the spiritual things, you speak of love, yet you refuse the hone who is love, He knocks at your do, but you never seem to let Him in, how can one love someone that deny there company, how ca none walk in the spirit than deny the things of the spirit, your walk seems to be based on the emotions of the heart, you read the bible you think you are right, just look at this forum, you have no idea of the things of God. There is a whole topic on the bible idol, the greatest gift given to men, you should read it.
Jesus knocks on your door if you deny Him now dont expect entry
Luk_13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
your choice.
Theives and robbers come not by the gate to the pen but over the wall and with force to steal and harm.
I used to wonder what Jesus meant by this. But these movements which at their core say stay sinner you are ok, relax, take it easy, pamper yourself, Jesus has done everything, take the top deck of God's cruise liner.
And no joke they say exactly this.
How many are now running out of food because of covid-19 and the close down? Where is the miraculous solution? Or is it just blessing, binding and failure? Empty magicians of old crowd around power promising you are the best, a prophet to a lost corrupt sinner who changes there words and lies literally all the time "fake news"
When the tide is out truth starts to show. God bless you
And what will win? Science. Solving biological problems with biological solutions. And who will look the fools? Pompous claimers of binding things through God's power which clearly they do not have. Thousands of deaths which they claim they can stop. Sure thing. A cold, a painful back, one leg shorter than another, a plague of wrong length limbs. God help the poor deluded folk.
In olden times such charletans did not last long because so many were always dying. Today science gives us security, literally, truthful answers. Christ is the truth and says amen to truth. God bless you
I used to wonder what Jesus meant by this. But these movements which at their core say stay sinner you are ok, relax, take it easy, pamper yourself, Jesus has done everything, take the top deck of God's cruise liner.
And no joke they say exactly this.
How many are now running out of food because of covid-19 and the close down? Where is the miraculous solution? Or is it just blessing, binding and failure? Empty magicians of old crowd around power promising you are the best, a prophet to a lost corrupt sinner who changes there words and lies literally all the time "fake news"
When the tide is out truth starts to show. God bless you
And what will win? Science. Solving biological problems with biological solutions. And who will look the fools? Pompous claimers of binding things through God's power which clearly they do not have. Thousands of deaths which they claim they can stop. Sure thing. A cold, a painful back, one leg shorter than another, a plague of wrong length limbs. God help the poor deluded folk.
In olden times such charletans did not last long because so many were always dying. Today science gives us security, literally, truthful answers. Christ is the truth and says amen to truth. God bless you
Please show me one place where I said it was ok to sin, is there a problem with you being Human. Is grace not enough for you..
Lol. You have no proposition other than a emotional conviction.
Repent and walk the straight path.
That is what Jesus calls us to do.
If you oppose this it is your place to stand before the Father and explain why you want to be the foolish man who builds his house on the sand.
God bless you.
I do admire your conviction about your revelation, but it opposes all I know in Jesus. I weep when you say I have no love. Not because you know me but because love does not speak into empty air, it knows care, support, gentleness, grace. I know love dwells in your life yet something hides it, sin has hardened your heart.
The more people stay like this the more they will meet their maker like this and be rejected. While there is still light there is hope. God bless you
Being Human? Interesting language. We are human, sinner or saint till we die.
If you do not repent of sin and walk the ways of Jesus, cleansed and purified to walk in life with Him, it is ok to be a sinner and sin. Only in Jesus is cleansing possible and Holiness fulfilled.
And your claim is scripture is wrong because you have met Jesus. So have the apostles and spent 3 years learning from Him.
You have Jesus.
Most folk who take your road end in some personal break down which ends sadly in a heap somewhere.
Content is key. When the storm comes the house falls. It never recovers, which is Jesus's warning and mine.
I ask simply put Jesus's words into action.
I seriously wish you well and pray for you. God bless you
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