Fear God or Presume acceptance

[Episkopos]

You know, @FollowHim , many men before you have observed and dissected human behavior and emotions. They haven't all known God. A psychologist, or even a good fiction writer, dissects human behavior and emotions. Its through focused observation and study. But the Kingdom of God doesnt come by observation of human behavior and emotions. Neither does it come by pretenses and frenzies.

You are pitting rationalism against pretenses and frenzies and saying rationalism is the Kingdom of God.

Rationalism(unbelief) denies the possibility of the supernatural. There is a scale of unbelief and this is probably too brief but it goes like this: on the one end, the possibility of God is denied = atheism. The scale then moves to God is not denied but Jesus is, like with the Jewish religion. Then it moves to: God is not denied and Jesus is not denied but the possibility of the supernatural is denied. This last one is where you appear to be. And it is rationalism/unbelief.

You say God speaking directly to men is like people who are insane and hear voices and you use religious pretences and frenzies to reject the possibility of the supernatural. And yet the entire bible is filled with supernatural encounters with God. And you say being taken into the Kingdom of God to see a different place or walk in a different place or being allowed to see into it is bonkers and meanwhile, the apostles saw into there and believed into and walked there. And it is because your rational mind has not seen any such things that you reject them. And your defense of rejecting the supernatural is this: men are often pretentious and nutty.

I have not seen into the Kingdom or received an apocalyptic revelation or seen into the heavens as Stephen did or had the faith to walk there in the Spirit and neither have you, but I do not reject the possibility. I have left room for God to move and manifest. I have not denied the supernatural.

And then I think, I am being too hard on Peter. In every place, God accepts men who fear Him and do what is right, so let Peter be a righteous man. But then you say you walk in the Spirit, you say you can see. So you say you can see while simultaneously rejecting that God can translate a man or open the heavens for Him to see that place or walk in that place in the Spirit where miracles manifest through the man. So you reject holiness and offend it and mock it and reject it as a possibility.

I think you are a rationalist pretending to be a believer because you are in rationalism/unbelief of the supernatural. And yet, He grows our faith. But does a man have faith or can he grow in faith if he denies the supernatural as a possibility?

You remind me of Tolstoy, who wrote The Gospel In Brief, in which he removed any verse he ever saw men go into error and nonsense with...

Word....and to the point. You really have a handle on the truth here. Building our castles in the sky only to have them thrown down when all is revealed.

 

[FollowHim]

You know, @FollowHim , many men before you have observed and dissected human behavior and emotions. They haven't all known God. A psychologist, or even a good fiction writer, dissects human behavior and emotions. Its through focused observation and study. But the Kingdom of God doesnt come by observation of human behavior and emotions. Neither does it come by pretenses and frenzies.

You are pitting rationalism against pretenses and frenzies and saying rationalism is the Kingdom of God.

Rationalism(unbelief) denies the possibility of the supernatural. There is a scale of unbelief and this is probably too brief but it goes like this: on the one end, the possibility of God is denied = atheism. The scale then moves to God is not denied but Jesus is, like with the Jewish religion. Then it moves to: God is not denied and Jesus is not denied but the possibility of the supernatural is denied. This last one is where you appear to be. And it is rationalism/unbelief.

You say God speaking directly to men is like people who are insane and hear voices and you use religious pretences and frenzies to reject the possibility of the supernatural. And yet the entire bible is filled with supernatural encounters with God. And you say being taken into the Kingdom of God to see a different place or walk in a different place or being allowed to see into it is bonkers and meanwhile, the apostles saw into there and believed into and walked there. And it is because your rational mind has not seen any such things that you reject them. And your defense of rejecting the supernatural is this: men are often pretentious and nutty.

I have not seen into the Kingdom or received an apocalyptic revelation or seen into the heavens as Stephen did or had the faith to walk there in the Spirit and neither have you, but I do not reject the possibility. I have left room for God to move and manifest. I have not denied the supernatural.

And then I think, I am being too hard on Peter. In every place, God accepts men who fear Him and do what is right, so let Peter be a righteous man. But then you say you walk in the Spirit, you say you can see. So you say you can see while simultaneously rejecting that God can translate a man or open the heavens for Him to see that place or walk in that place in the Spirit where miracles manifest through the man. So you reject holiness and offend it and mock it and reject it as a possibility.

I think you are a rationalist pretending to be a believer because you are in rationalism/unbelief of the supernatural. And yet, He grows our faith. But does a man have faith or can he grow in faith if he denies the supernatural as a possibility?

You remind me of Tolstoy, who wrote The Gospel In Brief, in which he removed any verse he ever saw men go into error and nonsense with...

"you are a rationalist pretending to be a believer"

19 Do not put out the Spirit's fire;
20 do not treat prophecies with contempt.
21 Test everything. Hold on to the good.
22 Avoid every kind of evil.
1 Thess 5:19-22

So to be a believer you must be irrational, without logic, order, control, an anarchist, believing in chaos and its rule in our lives.
A believer is defined by John

2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
1 John 4:2-3

Walking in the Spirit is sowing to the Spirit as Paul describes.

8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.
Gal 6:8-9

So I sow to please the Spirit. Now this is our spiritual worship in Christ.
That is all there is. God bless you

I obviously rocked your boat, but maybe it needs rocking.

 

[FollowHim]

Do people really hate good works and loving others this much?

I think the answer is yes, because I mean, our needs far out weigh everyone elses. lol.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

So to be a believer you must be irrational, without logic, order, control, an anarchist, believing in chaos and its rule in our lives

The apostles were irrational...? The apostles were anarchists?

Truly, Peter, you would have stood with the men saying the apostles were drunk at Pentecost.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Do people really hate good works and loving others this much?

I think the answer is yes, because I mean, our needs far out weigh everyone elses. lol.

You are asking this: does Jennie really hate righteousness this much? I do not hate righteousness. But when you reject holiness, you hate and take offense at holiness. When you do this, you are no longer a righteous man. Righteous men do not mock and reject holiness, because they fear God.

 

[FollowHim]

The apostles were irrational...? The apostles were anarchists?

Truly, Peter, you would have stood with the men saying the apostles were drunk at Pentecost.

You are the one calling me a rationalist and not a believer. If you reject rationalism, what are you, irrational?
The apostles were not irrational, they were filled with the Holy Spirit. Being filled with the Holy Spirit is not an irrational idea.

I think you have confused atheism and unbelief with rationality. God is very rational, loving, just and kind, and not irrational.
But maybe that is your fixed framework of reference you have bought into without questioning it.

God heals people for specific reasons, whether we know them or not. Paul argues the homosexuality has its source in the rejection of the Father, the focus and purpose of life within the creators will and context. If anything Christianity is one of the most rational faiths there is, which is why it has stood the test of time and so many different perspectives.

If we cannot test things on a moral spiritual basis, we have no defence against any claims, insane or otherwise.
But maybe that meets your deepest desires, the treasure at the end of the super spiritual rainbow.

 

[FollowHim]

You are asking this: does Jennie really hate righteousness this much? I do not hate righteousness. But when you reject holiness, you hate and take offense at holiness. When you do this, you are no longer a righteous man. Righteous men do not mock and reject holiness, because they fear God.

When did I reject holiness?
By the way, hello Jennie. And I am not asking you personally this question, it just makes me wonder at condemnation for some minor miss-understanding. I wonder if the building I am close to has any real foundations at all. God bless you

I am not taking offence at holiness, I am saying I do not accept condemnation of the body of Christ based on a personal heavenly experience.
We can talk about our own sin and failure and Gods revelation of that, or as the prophets did, appealing to God for correction of sin, and then having a massive shock to hear what God is going to do about it. But hey, I am sure I am guilty of lots of things I have not noticed.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You are the one calling me a rationalist and not a believer. If you reject rationalism, what are you, irrational?
The apostles were not irrational, they were filled with the Holy Spirit. Being filled with the Holy Spirit is not an irrational idea.

The apostles had many experiences of God, walking in the Spirit. But if a man today said God took him to the 3rd heaven, you would rail against him.

 

[FollowHim]

The apostles had many experiences of God, walking in the Spirit. But if a man today said God took him to the 3rd heaven, you would rail against him.

I think this is your miss-understanding. I have heard many testimonies of being touched by Christ, and all the legitimate ones talk about the Lords holiness and our failure to respond or understand His love and grace. Some are so profound, they change their faith, their direction, their whole lives. They do not expect others to have a similar experience, just testify to the love of Jesus in their lives.

And going to meet Jesus, amen. That is what we all desire. But what is the message given as a result defines the validity of the experience. Muhammed founded Islam on such an experience. Many heretical groups have come from such things.

I judge by the message and its intent. So you do not read what I write or see my clear positions. But then maybe it does not actually matter, I am outside your circle of trust, being a rationalist not a believer.

I wonder how these words come so quickly to your heart. I do not mind if you are a believer or not, I would hope you love Jesus and walk with Him, and if I share something that helps in this, amen. I am not here to judge anyone, just share and respond as the Lord leads me. God bless you

 

[stunnedbygrace]

When did I reject holiness?

You reject the possibility of holiness/walking in the Spirit when you reject the possibility of supernatural miracles, because it is when a man is holy that miracles are wrought/manifested through him.

Please note the word "possibility" and understand that a righteous man leaves room for the possibility that another man may (possibly) be given this grace.

And please forget Benny Hinn or smoke being pumped through vents by a machine or whatever nonsense men do, because that's not a valid reason for saying that no man has ever or will ever walk in the Spirit.

 

[Episkopos]

You reject the possibility of holiness/walking in the Spirit when you reject the possibility of supernatural miracles, because it is when a man is holy that miracles are wrought/manifested through him.

Please note the word "possibility" and understand that a righteous man leaves room for the possibility that another man may (possibly) be given this grace.

And please forget Benny Hinn or smoke being pumped through vents by a machine or whatever nonsense men do, because that's not a valid reason for saying that no man has ever or will ever walk in the Spirit.

Yet our friend would say that indeed he does walk in the Spirit...at least on a rational level!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yet our friend would say that indeed he does walk in the Spirit...at least on a rational level!

Men often confuse being led by the Spirit with walking in the Spirit in holiness, as you have said before. They dont understand the difference.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

They do not expect others to have a similar experience, just testify to the love of Jesus in their lives.

Did Paul expect those he taught to not ever have that experience of moving from being led by the Spirit into actually walking in the Spirit? He called it the high calling and it was also his own desire to be found IN Christ. There are many ways it has been said - walking in the Spirit, being in Christ, abiding/remaining in Him.

Who would not desire to abide in Him, especially when we know that if we abide in Him we do not sin?? What are we racing to apprehend/grab ahold of? Arent we in the race of trusting more and more to win the prize of the high calling in Christ?

 

[FollowHim]

You reject the possibility of holiness/walking in the Spirit when you reject the possibility of supernatural miracles, because it is when a man is holy that miracles are wrought/manifested through him.

Please note the word "possibility" and understand that a righteous man leaves room for the possibility that another man may (possibly) be given this grace.

And please forget Benny Hinn or smoke being pumped through vents by a machine or whatever nonsense men do, because that's not a valid reason for saying that no man has ever or will ever walk in the Spirit.

I have never rejected supernatural miracles nor will I ever. Jesus did them, the apostles did, believers through the ages have, I dislike the wrong emphasis like a circus show. In London we had a healing mission with no healing.

In our church many claim healing and die. Something is wrong in the approach, God is not moving. God does heal, quietly, among His people.

It is a wonder I must be an unbeliever if I do not accept everything claimed. That is just naive, which liars and exploiters use all the time.

To oppose me on this shows where your heart is, in hope rather than truth, deceivers rather than God. So many get what they desire, but not what they need. God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

Weird. I said no where people cannot walk in the Spirit, just a false teacher has no authority no matter their experiences. It is a wonder with so many claiming so much and so little maturity I must be the unbeliever.

I weep for such as these, ripe for the picking, for dream weavers and the right hype, music and euphoria. Bow to the revelation, you know the guy is true, it's all in his smile........

 

[FollowHim]

Emotional conclusions projected on individuals. Such defence hides such need and such hurt. No wonder people wander away when the real issues are not resolved

 

[FollowHim]

I must learn, talk the heavenly experience, seeing hell, talking to the apostles, even Jesus, they love it. I mean the Bible is old hat, you need the truth from heaven, special delivery. Sow to my ministry and I will get you your personal reading of your future. Want it now, special charted Spirit blessing dial 554445554.

People do this because they want certainty......

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I have never rejected supernatural miracles nor will I ever. Jesus did them, the apostles did, believers through the ages have, I dislike the wrong emphasis like a circus show. In London we had a healing mission with no healing.

In our church many claim healing and die. Something is wrong in the approach, God is not moving. God does heal, quietly, among His people.

It is a wonder I must be an unbeliever if I do not accept everything claimed. That is just naive, which liars and exploiters use all the time.

To oppose me on this shows where your heart is, in hope rather than truth, deceivers rather than God. So many get what they desire, but not what they need. God bless you

There are ditches on either side of the road. You have missed the one on the left, which is believing anything and everything. You have fallen in the one on the right. You are like a man driving a car who swerves to not go in the ditch but in saving himself from that ditch, he overcorrects to the point where he winds up in the opposite ditch.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

To oppose me on this shows where your heart is, in hope rather than truth, deceivers rather than God.

Christ in you is the hope of glory.

 

[FollowHim]

There are ditches on either side of the road. You have missed the one on the left, which is believing anything and everything. You have fallen in the one on the right. You are like a man driving a car who swerves to not go in the ditch but in saving himself from that ditch, he overcorrects to the point where he winds up in the opposite ditch.

You have a strange way of encouragement. Your analysis has been wrong and you have given no insight into anything further.

I remember other encounters and defences of hyper grace heretics. A number had heavenly experiences and where full of bile if one did not submit to there revelation.

I read about Cromwell and the beginning of the Quakers. Again weird people and times. There is no end to such folk. Even Paul said some claimed the resurrection had already taken place.

The problem with self revelation is it's easy for it to go nuts because there are no limits, which means the mind of some does go too far.

Discernment. So many have zero discernment or care, because it does not matter to them, its just pretend. The pastor says his bit, you play along and smile. It is just show bizzz after all, get in the money and away you go.....