Fear God or Presume acceptance

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FollowHim

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Christ in you is the hope of glory.
In your book I am not in Christ, so how does this apply......

Some use the word like dead. You are dead. Oh I did not mean to kill you, it's just a manner of speaking.

So whole communities are dead. It sounds harmless, except if you killed them all, one might get the idea this is not just words. Eternal realities are not man orientated judgements or those who claim the authority to remove salvation from a soul.

Is this worse than murder, spiritual discouragement, push them under a bus, oh they deserve it because they did not agree on this point here, or was it that one, oh who cares, it's just their eternity with Jesus at stake......

Who talks like this with a heart for others?
 

stunnedbygrace

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Is this worse than murder, spiritual discouragement, push them under a bus, oh they deserve it because they did not agree on this point here, or was it that one, oh who cares, it's just their eternity with Jesus at stake......

Who talks like this with a heart for others?

You think I am trying to discourage you...??
 

FollowHim

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Are you saying I have been full of bile?
I have said some I met were and showed it. It surprised me and those who turned a blind eye to it.

I do not get specific, and I do not know you or why you take the position you do. It is odd to me how you progressed from my opposition to false teachers claiming talking to God and by implication maturity, but displaying judgmentalism of the worst kind, to me being against holiness and therefore God.

I am wary of the use of the word fool, but I have met fools who say they know the straight path argument but reject it, taking free grace with sin and abuse, knowing either I am right or they are and refuse to shift or listen.

So disowning believers of any sort is dangerous stuff, and I take it very seriously. But hard hearts do not listen and do not know love. So that's this debate, high stakes and serious consequences, as you can see.
 

FollowHim

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You think I am trying to discourage you...??
I do not think it, you are.

I wonder how detached you are from this subject matter. Clearly saying I am a fake believer is everyday greeting you give to Christians you meet. Oh they got upset, who would have thought, their whole life trashed in a phrase, did not notice, it's only words after all.....

Some described me as the worst and most evil person on a forum. But hey, this was their ammunition for the enemy, going to the pit and taking others with them. My heart is you are more open, able to hear and respond, so it matters to me, unless that door also closes. But it does not have to.
 
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FollowHim

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I have a simple example of the insanity of some folk in faith.
A believer comes along, claims to be the authority of Jesus, abuses, is rude to, provokes in the worst ways possible without swearing or being physically bad, but implying as much as possible.

Turns out this guy abuses people for real on line, had a profile that sensitive believers regarded as so bad they were shocked just looking at it.
Now I linked to this guys profile, as the example of who he really was without any pretend christian veneer. Oddly I got banned from the forum.
Some believers said, so what if he is actually like this, he has faith and so is saved. The guys profile on twitter was also banned, and whenever he returns he gets banned. But that is actually being a good witness of peace and love in the community I hear.

This is how free grace theology works out. You can defend the faith with any example of life you like, there are no morals or sin or reason to rebuke or reprove individuals.

Others say they are the true light, while the whole church is dead, lost, empty. So billions of people of faith, only they hold the key. God is not able to lead and enliven and teach any others on the face of the earth. Some claim that they, after 2,000 years have discovered the real key to revelation and the walk, which they will show you, the selected few.

The problem is Jesus called the elect, from each generation, His people who listen and walk in His ways. It is His work and He has not stopped since man came to earth working. So life exists wherever you look, and where there is no life, judgement falls. We are called to listen, love and follow. We only know those we meet, and that is enough. You would think loving people should come easily to people, they have known people all their lives, yet, sin has bound and constrained them, taught them to lie, cheat, deceive, hide and hurt, so it takes a long time to slowly change and sow new views and approaches in their hearts.

But to some this will never happen, because they have no real foundation or interest in Jesus its just something they do. God bless you
 

stunnedbygrace

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You are obviously projecting some others onto me. I have not been with you as you see me having been.

As for your feeling that I am discouraging you, I cannot conceive of how someone saying there is a walk actually in the Spirit that is what God desires for us to have having the effect of discouraging them...why would that discourage you that there is something even more that God wants to take you into?
 

FollowHim

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Did I say you are dead?
You said I am a fake believer........ what do you think that means? That I know Jesus and walk with Him?

Words have meanings, implications, judgements. These are not neutral friendly summaries, they are caustic statements intending to judge and box someone off as if they have no value. How dare you be rational, that is not what is being a believer.

There are people who say we have no limits in God, so we should be open to anything.
On this scale why not commit all the 7 deadly sins and live like the worst person ever alive, God is there as well, isn't He?

There was a time when on the streets you met folk who were seriously deranged and lives messed up so they died.
Today we have drugs, social workers, wealth, hospitals, support groups so it gets hidden, and personally no one actually talks about it.
So words do not lead anywhere, and everyone is not that bad, and nothing terrible really goes on, its just all nice.......

The problem is put simply to go this far shows where you are. And thats were I stop.
God bless you.
 
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FollowHim

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You are obviously projecting some others onto me. I have not been with you as you see me having been.

As for your feeling that I am discouraging you, I cannot conceive of how someone saying there is a walk actually in the Spirit that is what God desires for us to have having the effect of discouraging them...why would that discourage you that there is something even more that God wants to take you into?

We live in different ways. Its fine, I know this style, but I had hoped for something else.

But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgement for every empty word they have spoken.
Matt 12:36

Sensitivity is an important aspect of our hearts, but clearly this is missing.
God bless you
 

mjrhealth

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Here is your problem. Sola scriptura is our creed.
It is yours it is not Gods,

The bible is not my God, and it certainly is not Jesus, and it definitely has no life in it, just look at this forum, should i repeat again the hone bit denied by all the bible bashers as one would put it,

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Joh 5:41 I receive not honour from men.

See that topic on the greatest gift given to man, they glorified the bible, they gave honor to a book, they put it in a place above Christ Himself, That makes it an idol.

Exo_20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

I serve teh living God , this one

Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Act 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

And a father has a relationship with His sons.
 

stunnedbygrace

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You're quite slippery.

You began by going on and on about how hearing God or actually being visited by Him is like insane people who hear voices and then when someone points out that your belief is just the unbelief of rationalism with a veneer of the the respectability of religion, you begin averring that you do believe in God moving outside of what reason tells you, yet you still go on and on about every counterfeit.

And while you have improved a little on the passive-aggressive thrusts since I last spoke with you a few years ago, you still engage in them.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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A friend asked me fairly recently, do you believe God could actually visit you tonight? I thought for a bit and my most honest answer was: I do believe He could but I also believe He probably wont. To which my friend replied, why not?

The next morning, I saw that I had answered my friend in doubt and unbelief. I corrected my heart and made sure it was prepared for Him.

Not knowing when He might visit you is a very different thing than believing He wont.
 
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FollowHim

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You're quite slippery.

You began by going on and on about how hearing God or actually being visited by Him is like insane people who hear voices and then when someone points out that your belief is just the unbelief of rationalism with a veneer of the the respectability of religion, you begin averring that you do believe in God moving outside of what reason tells you, yet you still go on and on about every counterfeit.

And while you have improved a little on the passive-aggressive thrusts since I last spoke with you a few years ago, you still engage in them.

This is the problem. You see things from a very different perspective than I do.
Unless we have a common basis of understanding there is nothing there.

I know from other situations people see what they want to see.
So we understand each other, the divide that exists. God bless you

I am quite slippery? You are quite complementary and kind, lol....... Not sure this personality assessment is what is helpful or constructive.
Am I an ant you want to inspect? Do I have to qualify in some way? Is there an exam for acceptable approaches I need to pass?

I love Pauls approach to believers, "I do not judge them or their motives. I do not even judge myself" 1 cor 4:3

I do feel roasted, but the other side needs doing some more. God bless you again.
 
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FollowHim

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A friend asked me fairly recently, do you believe God could actually visit you tonight? I thought for a bit and my most honest answer was: I do believe He could but I also believe He probably wont. To which my friend replied, why not?

The next morning, I saw that I had answered my friend in doubt and unbelief. I corrected my heart and made sure it was prepared for Him.

Not knowing when He might visit you is a very different thing than believing He wont.

It is an interesting point. God is with us all the time, as temples of the Holy Spirit.
In the quiet room, alone we worship, praise and commune with Him.

The difference between Him being in our hearts and seeing Him face to face is just the veil. God bless you
 

FollowHim

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It is yours it is not Gods,

The bible is not my God, and it certainly is not Jesus, and it definitely has no life in it, just look at this forum, should i repeat again the hone bit denied by all the bible bashers as one would put it,

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Joh 5:41 I receive not honour from men.

See that topic on the greatest gift given to man, they glorified the bible, they gave honor to a book, they put it in a place above Christ Himself, That makes it an idol.

Exo_20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

I serve teh living God , this one

Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Act 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

And a father has a relationship with His sons.

I think we understand each other. :)

Bible bashers sounds like your pet description of your enemy.
I remember going to the Philipines and there was every religious group there you could imagine.
After each group say their bit, thats it really. Nothing more left to say.

Our faith foundations are robust enough to share and stand, so at least we can enjoy the exchange, and maybe at a future time a conclusion, who knows. I do love your "I spoke to Jesus face to face" and then you just quote scripture. Is this all you got for your superior experience? Is it like a special tour for the elite believers to show them where they will be spending eternity? Can us plebs apply, and where do I buy the tickets? Is it the angel Gabriel with a ticket dispenser and a diary.

I do wonder if every believer went to speak to Jesus, would not the queue be unbelievably long and simply the time to wait to get the few words and hand shake, I mean, is it worth it? As you have gone so quiet about it, I suspect not. God bless you