Grace is NOT unmerited favor!

[Nancy]

I did try to email him, but got no reply so doubt if he got it.

Probably some overworked secretary, lol.

 

[justbyfaith]

This is why we need to keep reading to see Paul speak about himself in the present tense.

In Romans 7:14, when Paul begins to speak in the present tense, that is where he begins to use the literary tactic of identification that is spoken of in 1 Corinthians 9:22. He becomes as the weak in order to gain the weak.

In 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 Paul shows forth the concept that there are two types of Christian....spiritual and carnal.

He identifies himself in Romans 7:14-25 as carnal; but if he were truly carnal he would be unworthy to be a penner of holy scripture (see 2 Peter 1:20-21 (kjv)).

2Pe 1:20, Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21, For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

I maintain that we can not remake ourselves.

Most certainly we cannot remake ourselves. For what the Lord has made crooked who can make straight (Ecclesiastes 7:13)?

The answer is, the Lord can (Luke 3:5).

Yes, Paul is saying that we were by nature children of wrath. We are no longer children of wrath, but not because we have undergone a metaphysical transformation, but because we have reconciliation with God through the blood of the cross. The crucifixion of Jesus is our propitiation.

The point to be made is that we are no longer children of wrath by nature.

Not true. If an *unbeliever* wishes to get saved, he must *choose* to get saved while still an unbeliever, or while still unregenerated.

An unbeliever does not make that decision out of the resources of the old man. The Lord does a partial quickening within him that enables him to wake up completely if he so chooses.

You see, this is where you're wrong. We can do the works that Christ might require of all men, including the need to act according to God's image. This doesn't save,

No kidding. Works don't save. I'm not wrong, because I've said this all along. You are the one who has seemed to disagree with this premise.

You're not representing my position properly. I said you must want both the good works of the new nature plus the new nature in order to be saved, or to receive that salvation. I did not say you just want good works to be saved. You must also want the new nature that produces those good works.

We must indeed repent of dead works so that we can serve the living God. But I would add, that we are not saved by works; and neither are we saved by a commitment to do good works. We are saved through receiving Christ; and when He comes in, He begins to live His life in us and through us. And this is where the works come from. A relationship with Christ; not the commitment to do good works.

We do make a commitment to turning our life over not just to doing good works, but more, to doing good works all the time by receiving an entirely new spiritual nature. This nature is not just good works concocted by sinful men, who refused to repent of their sins. More, it is a choice for Christ's new spiritual nature that he has designed for those who want to be saved.

And in this, you appear to be contending for the idea of salvation by works; which is unequivocally denied by holy scripture.

Already answered that. All men may respond to God's word after God has first reached out to them. And God has reached out to all men first, so that they may obey His command to live in His image.

The Lord draws people to Himself at specific times in their lives; not every moment of every day but at predetermined moments in which they hear the gospel and become able to respond because in those moments He is drawing them to Himself.

I also provided you 1 John 6.29.

And I provided you the interpretation (of John 6:28-29). Because it is clear from the majority of scriptures that you will look at, that salvation is not of works. The scripture doesn't contradict itself. So, John 6:28-29 would need to be consistent with other scripture; and therefore it is saying that if you are going to insist on being saved by works, the only "work" that will save you is simple faith in Jesus Christ and what He did for you on the Cross.

That faith and works are mutually exclusive when it comes to salvation is evident if you will merely take a closer look at Ephesians 2:8-9.

Jesus did require a "work," that we choose to believe in a new life through Christ. We opt for good works on a permanent basis, which is what a "new nature" entails.

We do in fact repent of dead works to serve the living God; and this entails turning away from the old sinful lifestyle. And, if you do this, you will become a slave of righteousness as you are set free from sin. And real righteousness involves doing righteousness.

However, it is taking it too far to say that we will be saved by the good works that we do, or even by a commitment to begin doing them.

The focus must be the Person of Christ and what He did on the Cross. If someone truly receives Christ and His sacrifice for them, they will, out of gratitude, begin to serve Him. But a person is not saved by "turning over a new leaf" so to speak. You will not save yourself by redoubling your efforts to live a good life.

You must receive Christ.

Therefore let Him be the focus in your evangelism; and everything else will fall into place.

 

[Randy Kluth]

An unbeliever does not make that decision out of the resources of the old man. The Lord does a partial quickening within him that enables him to wake up completely if he so chooses.

It would be helpful if you don't mix up your answers to two different people. Sometimes that works. On a long post, it's less helpful.

I will repeat my answer. The person considered an "unbeliever," or what you call "the old man," is the very man who is choosing to accept Christ. Therefore, you're suggesting that someone else is making the decision for him?

No kidding. Works don't save. I'm not wrong, because I've said this all along. You are the one who has seemed to disagree with this premise.

I have *never* said that "works save," or "works earn Salvation." Rather, I've said that there is a work that is required as part of the process of Salvation, and that is the work of believing in Christ. It also include embrace of the works of Christ in the sense that we ourselves are choosing to have a nature that produces like works.

We do a work to get more works, along with a new nature. This is my formula, and you keep distorting it.

We must indeed repent of dead works so that we can serve the living God. But I would add, that we are not saved by works; and neither are we saved by a commitment to do good works. We are saved through receiving Christ; and when He comes in, He begins to live His life in us and through us. And this is where the works come from. A relationship with Christ; not the commitment to do good works.

So you're saying we aren't saved by a commitment to do good works. But then you say we are saved by a commitment to receive Christ. I would argue that these are one and the same. When we choose to receive Christ, we are choosing to receive his good nature and the associated good works. These things cannot be divided. You are trying to bring a "justification" argument into this when it is not warranted.

My point here is not a "justification" argument. Rather, it is a "works" argument. And this is important lest we reduce the Gospel to antinomianism. I did quote 1 John on this, and you apparently ignore it? Why do you argue everything else when you ignore the central Scriptures I quote to prove my point?

And in this, you appear to be contending for the idea of salvation by works; which is unequivocally denied by holy scripture.

Nope.

The Lord draws people to Himself at specific times in their lives; not every moment of every day but at predetermined moments in which they hear the gospel and become able to respond because in those moments He is drawing them to Himself.

And I provided you the interpretation (of John 6:28-29). Because it is clear from the majority of scriptures that you will look at, that salvation is not of works. The scripture doesn't contradict itself. So, John 6:28-29 would need to be consistent with other scripture; and therefore it is saying that if you are going to insist on being saved by works, the only "work" that will save you is simple faith in Jesus Christ and what He did for you on the Cross.

That is scarcely a rebuttal. You are just confirming my point, that faith is a "work" in itself--not a work to *earn* Salvation, but rather, a work to *obtain* Salvation. I've said this all along, and you seem too stubborn to admit it.

Unless you can answer John 6, you're wasting your time.

 

[mjrhealth]

I'm not a sinner. I am a child of God.

All christians are children of God the perfect and the imperfect but He has very few sons. So many going to be disappointed.

 

[Fred Eans]

God said there is not one righteous man, not one. If your breathing you sin. If you do not repent, you will have a hard time entering heaven. Those who say they do not sin, do not have the Savior who was sacrificed for everyone’s sins. You should repent for saying you have no sins.

 

[justbyfaith]

I will repeat my answer. The person considered an "unbeliever," or what you call "the old man," is the very man who is choosing to accept Christ. Therefore, you're suggesting that someone else is making the decision for him?

The person does not make a decision to receive Christ out of the old man's resources. Rather, the Holy Spirit draws him to Christ and he is woken up spiritually to a certain extent. It then becomes his choice as to whether he will completely wake up or else go back to sleep. But this choice, he is able to make because of the quickening effect of the Holy Spirit and not out of the old man's resources.

I have *never* said that "works save," or "works earn Salvation." Rather, I've said that there is a work that is required as part of the process of Salvation,

Same thing.

and that is the work of believing in Christ. It also include embrace of the works of Christ in the sense that we ourselves are choosing to have a nature that produces like works.

Of course, if you want to insist that you are saved by a work, the only "work" that will save you is a simple faith in Christ.

We do a work to get more works, along with a new nature. This is my formula, and you keep distorting it.

Because you are trying to include in your language the concept that we are saved by works; or a work that we do in order to be saved.

So you're saying we aren't saved by a commitment to do good works. But then you say we are saved by a commitment to receive Christ. I would argue that these are one and the same.

Then don't distort the issue by emphasizing the works part. If you receive Christ you will do good works. This is true. But the catalyst for doing good works is a relationship with Christ. It is not that the catalyst for a relationship with Christ is doing good works; neither a commitment to do good works.

When we choose to receive Christ, we are choosing to receive his good nature and the associated good works. These things cannot be divided.

And again, the root of the good works that we do is a relationship with Christ; not the other way around.

You are trying to bring a "justification" argument into this when it is not warranted.

My point here is not a "justification" argument. Rather, it is a "works" argument. And this is important lest we reduce the Gospel to antinomianism. I did quote 1 John on this, and you apparently ignore it?

You quoted John on this (for there is no 1 John 6:29; only a John 6:29) and I did in fact respond to it.

That is scarcely a rebuttal. You are just confirming my point, that faith is a "work" in itself--not a work to *earn* Salvation, but rather, a work to *obtain* Salvation. I've said this all along, and you seem too stubborn to admit it.

Unless you can answer John 6, you're wasting your time.

Here is my answer to John 6:28-29:

You need to look at Ephesians 2:8-9.

Eph 2:8, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Now here we find that we are saved by grace through faith...and so faith is a catalyst for salvation.

In the next verse we find that we are not saved by works...so works is not a catalyst for salvation.

How then is faith a work?

Because if we are saved by faith and faith is a work, then we are saved by a work, contrary to what this scripture is saying.

Or, if we are not saved by works we are not saved by faith lest this scripture be invalid; if indeed faith is a work.

Therefore in John 6:28-29, Jesus is making a unilateral statement that salvation is through faith; and He is saying that if you are going to be stubborn about it and insist that salvation is by works, the only "work" that will save you is simple faith in Him.

And we have seen in Ephesians 2:8-9 that such a faith is not in fact a work.

But the Lord is being facetious in order to deal with your stubbornness.

God said there is not one righteous man, not one.

The scripture does in fact say that in Romans 3:10. Now consider the context.

Rom 3:9, What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Jews and Gentiles are all alike under sin. However, there are three people groups spoken of in scripture:

1Co 10:32, Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

The church of God is therefore, according to Romans 3:9, not under sin.

Rom 3:19, Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Here we find that Romans 3:10-18 is what the law says to those who are under it.

So then, the passage doesn't apply to those who are not under the law:

Rom 6:14, For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

 

[Fred Eans]

When in doubt, look the word up in the Concordance. The meanings: Divine influence on the heart. Feeling good. And it’s reflection in one’s life. Benefit, favor, gift. And other adjectives. When you use that word in connection with one’s sins; every time you repent, God forgives. He doesn’t have to, but His Love is on such a different level than ours, you just cannot think of a better word than gracious - grace. If God had a middle name, it would be GRACE.

 

[justbyfaith]

You should repent for saying you have no sins.

If we repent for saying that the Lord has cleansed us from all sin (1 John 1:7), we should then be accepting sin as a part of our lives; when, as you so aptly said, the Lord wants us to repent of sin.

So then, if I am accepting of sin in my life, I am not repenting of sin but rather accepting it as a natural part of my life.

Therefore to believe what the apostle says in 1 John 1:7 is not in fact a sin.

For whatsoever is not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23); and therefore whatsoever is of faith is not sin.

Consider also what it says in Psalms 103:12...

Psa 103:12, As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

Or, Psalms 51:7...

Psa 51:7, Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

Or, 1 Corinthians 5:7...

1Co 5:7, Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

As leaven is a type of sin in holy scripture.

 

[mjrhealth]

So then, if I am accepting of sin in my life, I am not repenting of sin but rather accepting it as a natural part of my life.

How can one repent of something that one has not committed, and If Christ has already paid for it all, and all is forgiven than why are you repenting???

He did it once never again for anyone.

Enjoyed the rest

 

[Randy Kluth]

The person does not make a decision to receive Christ out of the old man's resources. Rather, the Holy Spirit draws him to Christ and he is woken up spiritually to a certain extent. It then becomes his choice as to whether he will completely wake up or else go back to sleep. But this choice, he is able to make because of the quickening effect of the Holy Spirit and not out of the old man's resources.

Are you even listening to yourself? Does this even make sense to you? Where is this in the Scriptures? Nowhere at all!

So the man who accepts Christ doesn't really accept Christ, unless it comes from outside of him, when he is awakened by the thing outside of him, should he choose to be awakened. How weird! And you expect me to accept that? I think not!

Of course, if you want to insist that you are saved by a work, the only "work" that will save you is a simple faith in Christ.

I've insisted on it because that's what John 6 says! And it also makes sense that there is something *we must do* to answer the call to Salvation! But, of course, you think it's an "awakening process," instigated outside of ourselves so that it really isn't us accepting Christ at all, but only something outside of us that wakes us up, should we choose to be awakened. ;)

I can't believe you really want me to swallow this stuff! I can't believe you swallow it yourself!

Because you are trying to include in your language the concept that we are saved by works; or a work that we do in order to be saved.

As I told you before this is a language issue, and you're just not willing to see anything outside of the scope of your predetermined understanding of the language. This has nothing to do with *earning Salvation* by our works. I've said that repeatedly.

Then don't distort the issue by emphasizing the works part. If you receive Christ you will do good works. This is true. But the catalyst for doing good works is a relationship with Christ. It is not that the catalyst for a relationship with Christ is doing good works; neither a commitment to do good works.

I'm convinced you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Nor have you spent 10 seconds trying to understand the things I'm explaining.

And again, the root of the good works that we do is a relationship with Christ; not the other way around.

You quoted John on this (for there is no 1 John 6:29; only a John 6:29) and I did in fact respond to it.

That's the best you can do--correct me on a writing error?

Here is my answer to John 6:28-29:

You need to look at Ephesians 2:8-9.

Eph 2:8, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

You are not answering John 6--you are diverting to Eph 2.

Now here we find that we are saved by grace through faith...and so faith is a catalyst for salvation.

In the next verse we find that we are not saved by works...so works is not a catalyst for salvation.

How then is faith a work?

Because if we are saved by faith and faith is a work, then we are saved by a work, contrary to what this scripture is saying.

Or, if we are not saved by works we are not saved by faith lest this scripture be invalid; if indeed faith is a work.

Therefore in John 6:28-29, Jesus is making a unilateral statement that salvation is through faith; and He is saying that if you are going to be stubborn about it and insist that salvation is by works, the only "work" that will save you is simple faith in Him.

That is *Scripture* saying this--not my "stubbornness!" It is rather *your* stubbornness! You refuse to accept that this is the Scripture--not me!

And we have seen in Ephesians 2:8-9 that such a faith is not in fact a work.

But the Lord is being facetious in order to deal with your stubbornness.

You are ridiculous. Read it again:
John 6.28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

Until you acknowledge that this Scripture describes a "work" we're done. Either that, or you're going to have to stop calling me "stubborn," when it is *your own stubbornness* that refuses to acknowledge that Scripture here is calling this a "work."

 

[CharismaticLady]

If we repent for saying that the Lord has cleansed us from all sin (1 John 1:7), we should then be accepting sin as a part of our lives; when, as you so aptly said, the Lord wants us to repent of sin.

So then, if I am accepting of sin in my life, I am not repenting of sin but rather accepting it as a natural part of my life.

Therefore to believe what the apostle says in 1 John 1:7 is not in fact a sin.

For whatsoever is not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23); and therefore whatsoever is of faith is not sin.

Consider also what it says in Psalms 103:12...

Psa 103:12, As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

Or, Psalms 51:7...

Psa 51:7, Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

Or, 1 Corinthians 5:7...

1Co 5:7, Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

As leaven is a type of sin in holy scripture.

If I read you right, and I hope I did, I think you will agree.

The truth shall set us free. But we must know what that truth is. Jesus said of that truth that he who sins is a slave of sin and slaves do not live in the house forever (with God). But a son abides forever. Therefore if the Son makes you free from sin (and from being a slave of sin and makes you a child of God), you shall be free indeed and will live with God forever. John 8:32-36

Why can't people understand that there is a before Christ and an after Christ. Since Adam sinned all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. If we say we haven't sinned, then we call God a liar and the truth is not in us. But if we confess our sin God is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness.

So, are we still a sinner??? With no sin after being cleansed, is it really a lie to say we have no sin? That is only for those who have never repented, as those before Christ who had only the Law. Is it really a lie to say that Jesus freed us from sin indeed??? Those who have been freed from this bondage/slave-hood of sin, God calls His children who will live in the house forever. They have been made truly righteous. Paul says we are dead to sin. Therefore mankind is either a sinner or a child of God - you can't be both and live in the house forever.

1 John 1:9 is not a verse that means you use it every time you sin, as if Jesus didn't cleanse you from all unrighteousness in your nature, making you born again and a partaker of the divine nature. If you will still be sinning in the present and future as some teach, how is that free indeed? When you understand all scripture from all of the apostles, it saves a lot of misinterpretation of a few scriptures in 1 John 1 that have been misunderstood for generations.

CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT.

Good night, brother :)

cc: @Nancy, @Fred Eans

 

[Prayer Warrior]

This is NOT saying that God's power is given to us as if we earned it. No, it is a gift from Jesus to those who are truly repentant and cry out to Him for Salvation from our sins. He gives us power. The New Covenant is not Law, but the powerful Spirit of Christ.

Paul's teaching on sin and the Law of Moses was 8 chapters long. Taking any of the chapters from the middle and making doctrines out of them and separating them from the conclusion - chapter 8 - will definitely lead to incomprehensible false doctrines. For anyone to think God shuts His eyes to sin and darkness doesn't know anything about the nature of God. I've seen it done with chapters 3, 4, 5 and 7. Oy vey! Chapter 8 is Jesus took away our sin; therefore no need for the law. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has freed us from the law of sin and death. Grace is NOT unmerited favor and all the covered up practice of sin that goes with that erroneous definition. Grace is the power of God to partake of the divine nature! 2 Peter 1:2-4

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Acts 1:
8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you.

Ephesians 3:
7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.

Reading some of the posts on this site makes me shudder!

Listen to Jesus, NOT the the Reformationists!

13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

I don't have a problem with grace being defined as God's unmerited favor, but here is the definition the Holy Spirit gave me years ago.

Grace is God's saving and sustaining power. We are saved by grace (God's saving power) through faith by the power of the Holy Spirit, and we are sustained by grace (God's sustaining power) as we walk out this Christian life.
.

 

[mjrhealth]

All this is about " fear" I am afraid that if I am not perfect I wont get to heaven. Well not one of us will get to heaven because we are perfect but because Christ was and still is perfect.

You know that bit

Rev 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

Guess what, none of us will be opening that book.

As Jesus put it

Mar_11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.

 

[Candidus]

You sin every day

Prove it!

 

[Candidus]

justbyfaith,

[If grace is not in place of wrath, where is wrath? it is nonexistent.

But the scripture is clear that there is indeed wrath against sin.

Maybe you should clarify what you mean; and how your statement does not negate the wrath of God towards those who are not under grace!]

You most likely will not get a straight answer on this, just elusive double talk.
If a person denies spiritual death took place at the fall, and denies penal substitutionary atonement,chances are no solid answer is coming soon...just philosophical double talk.

So I can assume that if you believe in Penal Substitution that I can just dismiss all you say as philosophical double-talk and never being "Biblical"?

Strange how you elevate a theory above Scripture.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I don't have a problem with grace being defined as God's unmerited favor, but here is the definition the Holy Spirit gave me years ago.

Grace is God's saving and sustaining power. We are saved by grace (God's saving power) through faith by the power of the Holy Spirit, and we are sustained by grace (God's sustaining power) as we walk out this Christian life.
.

Yes it is God's power. We know this by one of the Semitic writing style of the apostles call a parallelism.

Acts 4:33
33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.

The meaning of this parallelism is that grace is power.

 

[Candidus]

If I read you right, and I hope I did, I think you will agree.

The truth shall set us free. But we must know what that truth is. Jesus said of that truth that he who sins is a slave of sin and slaves do not live in the house forever (with God). But a son abides forever. Therefore if the Son makes you free from sin (and from being a slave of sin and makes you a child of God), you shall be free indeed and will live with God forever. John 8:32-36

Why can't people understand that there is a before Christ and an after Christ. Since Adam sinned all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. If we say we haven't sinned, then we call God a liar and the truth is not in us. But if we confess our sin God is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness.

So, are we still a sinner??? With no sin after being cleansed, is it really a lie to say we have no sin? That is only for those who have never repented, as those before Christ who had only the Law. Is it really a lie to say that Jesus freed us from sin indeed??? Those who have been freed from this bondage/slave-hood of sin, God calls His children who will live in the house forever. They have been made truly righteous. Paul says we are dead to sin. Therefore mankind is either a sinner or a child of God - you can't be both and live in the house forever.

1 John 1:9 is not a verse that means you use it every time you sin, as if Jesus didn't cleanse you from all unrighteousness in your nature, making you born again and a partaker of the divine nature. If you will still be sinning in the present and future as some teach, how is that free indeed? When you understand all scripture from all of the apostles, it saves a lot of misinterpretation of a few scriptures in 1 John 1 that have been misunderstood for generations.

CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT.

Good night, brother :)

cc: @Nancy, @Fred Eans

Paul, writing to Christians saying, "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

"Yet" "were" ... past tense is inferred.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

So I can assume that if you believe in Penal Substitution that I can just dismiss all you say as philosophical double-talk and never being "Biblical"?

Strange how you elevate a theory above Scripture.

Those who turn from bible truth and try and relegate it to theory or philosophy are departing from the word of the living God.

 

[Candidus]

Those who turn from bible truth and try and relegate it to theory or philosophy are departing from the word of the living God.

Exactly! That's why I oppose using philosophical inventions like Penal Substitution as a hinge-pin in which to interpret Scripture.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Exactly! That's why I oppose using philosophical inventions like Penal Substitution as a hinge-pin in which to interpret Scripture.

You oppose yourself by opposing scriptural teaching ;
2tim2:24-26
Calling bible truth philosophy is a lazy way of avoiding truth. I have no interest in interacting with such nonsense. You are free to oppose truth, perhaps you will find someone interested in such fruitless activity but it will not be me.