While we cannot become sinless (1 John 1:8) we can become perfect (Hebrews 10:14) in that the flesh can be crucified so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour, and we can walk in perfect holiness (see 2 Corinthians 7:1).
intentional sins?
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CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
That person has never confessed their sins, so of course, they are lying. And the context of that verse is the next verse. Try keeping verses in context, instead of out of context.
Good night, brother
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Your ideas here CL are definitely not gleaned from the scriptures known as the Bible. If you think you can substantiate them from the bible, I would be most curious.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
It is what the apostles taught, and were twisted in the centuries after their deaths when the Church became worldly and the Spirit was quenched.
Ask me a specific question if you really are interested that you need substantiation from scripture. When I noticed that sanctified was past tense in Hebrews 10:26-31 I started doing word studies on it, and finally saw that we are being glorified to be like God/Christ. We are already sanctified.
Knowing not to trust any theologies during the papacy or the Reformation, I simply take everything from the Bible and have tossed out orthodox corrupted theologies. You may be still holding on to unscriptural doctrines that are not from the apostles, but from later church fathers.
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quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Your post #40 is in error on every point you make. So much for your insistence on context where the scriptures you've sited in #40 are totally out of context.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
What do you believe Romans 8:9 and Revelation 22:11 mean? Do you believe sin can enter heaven?
Edit: Well, I hope you are giving me sound proof to ponder, otherwise, you are not proving you know what you are talking about.
I'm going to bed. Will see if you've had any truth to add to the discussion. So far, just blatant unfounded accusations - not of the Spirit.
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We must, in fact, give our sins to the Lord Jesus Christ so that they can be punished in Him as He died upon the Cross.
In this, we await the day when we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
He will eradicate all sin from our mortal bodies on that day.
And whosoever hath this hope in Him, purifieth himself, even as He is pure.
So then, if we be pure in heart, we shall see God.
Now of course these statements cannot contradict what we know the scripture teaches, that not one of us is without sin.
Therefore when we come across passages that tell us that sin is eradicated from our lives, we take them to mean that it is *as good as if* sin is eradicated from our lives...in the sense that sin is rendered dead so that we do not any longer have to commit sin.
Therefore if we also do not want to commit sin, how will we be even able to commit sin?
But of course in Galatians 5:17 we find that we cannot do the things that we would because the Spirit is against the flesh and the flesh against the Spirit; and that this refers even to those who have the Spirit of the Lord dwelling within them. Therefore if I cannot sin, it does not necessarily preclude that I would not sin if given the opportunity and if the Spirit was not the restrainer of my heart against sin.
1Pe 1:6, Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
1Pe 1:7, That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
Jas 1:2, My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3, Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
Jas 1:4, But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
Jas 1:14, But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15, Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16, Do not err, my beloved brethren.
In this, we await the day when we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
He will eradicate all sin from our mortal bodies on that day.
And whosoever hath this hope in Him, purifieth himself, even as He is pure.
So then, if we be pure in heart, we shall see God.
Now of course these statements cannot contradict what we know the scripture teaches, that not one of us is without sin.
Therefore when we come across passages that tell us that sin is eradicated from our lives, we take them to mean that it is *as good as if* sin is eradicated from our lives...in the sense that sin is rendered dead so that we do not any longer have to commit sin.
Therefore if we also do not want to commit sin, how will we be even able to commit sin?
But of course in Galatians 5:17 we find that we cannot do the things that we would because the Spirit is against the flesh and the flesh against the Spirit; and that this refers even to those who have the Spirit of the Lord dwelling within them. Therefore if I cannot sin, it does not necessarily preclude that I would not sin if given the opportunity and if the Spirit was not the restrainer of my heart against sin.
1Pe 1:6, Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
1Pe 1:7, That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
Jas 1:2, My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3, Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
Jas 1:4, But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
Jas 1:14, But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15, Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16, Do not err, my beloved brethren.
I'm only against denominations when they lose their truth and their love. And in this day and age, that is happening everywhere !
I don't agree with your terms, because they don't agree with how I see the Bible. Glorification entails the resurrection to immortality promised exclusively to believers. It is to receive a new body designed for eternal fellowship with God. Others may be resurrected, but they will not receive bodies designed to fellowship with God. I don't believe they will "burn in Hell," but I do believe they will be removed from the Kingdom of God on earth through being cast into the Lake of Fire. That is an entirely different subject!
Sanctification is, like Justification, an identification with Christ by our faith. By believing in Jesus as the Messiah, we are able to participate in his spiritual life, and as such, to receive a new nature, fit for participating in his righteousness. By virtue of having a new nature, our old nature is "overcome," which does not mean our sin nature is annihilated, but rather, that our righteousness supersedes, when we choose it, the carnal nature.
Some people speak of "progressive sanctification." Biblically, I see that more properly described as the process of "maturing." The life of Christ within us when we live by it gets stronger, and we develop depth, breadth, and strength.
I do recognize your concerns, and empathize with them. There is indeed a wrong way to look at Sanctification. For example, if a carnal, not born again person, embraces Christ as a belief system, and even experiences some of its spiritual values, this is not the kind of sanctification that saves. It is strictly a superficial experience of spirituality, enabling one to obey Christ on particular matters, but not with respect to obtaining a new nature and eternal salvation.
We do not, if we are spiritual, battle back against sin such that we sin one day and produce victory another day. True sanctification is supposed to, ideally, remain in victory. But never is our righteousness able to annihilate our sin nature. Corruption is always there underneath--we simply have an obligation to defeat it every day. It won't be completely eradicated until we are "glorified."
I don't believe you are using "unwitting sin" properly. We always have a sin nature, that is, until we are glorified in the resurrection. All sin can be forgiven. However, "witting sin" has nothing to do with sin that cannot be forgiven unless it is done explicitly in rejecting God's sacrifice for sin.
"Unwitting sin" had to do, I think, with ignorant Hebrews who did not fully know the ritual requirements of the Law. In choosing to do certain things, they chose to act in ignorance of the Law, but could be forgiven as not necessarily rebelling against God's laws that they were aware of.
The Apostle John is arguing that whether we know God's laws or not, we are not necessarily denying Christ. Simply by confessing our sins we can show we weren't choosing to oppose God, but rather, acting under duress or in ignorance.
Those who intentionally sin to reject Christ will suffer death in regard to Christ's future Kingdom. Those who sin, but do not intentionally reject Christ, can be forgiven, when they confess their sins.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Romans 8:
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
When I read the Bible, I saw that so many times 'sanctified' was past tense. That always bothered me, for like you I always believed that meant overcoming and cleansing of sin. But that is more in line with justification. The old theory of continuing sin in which we are still overcoming puts it in our hand, when all the credit goes to the Spirit. Justification has to do with sin. Sanctification has to do with good works we are set apart for. To name a few:
Romans 15:16
that I might be a minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering of the Gentiles might be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 1:2
To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Hebrews 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Yes, I agree there is a maturing process. But instead of overcoming willful sin, it has to do with putting on Christ, becoming more and more like Him - glorification. 2 Peter 1:5-10.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
I see that, again, as a man-made theology based on wishful thinking for itching ears.
That implies you "will always sin." Thus the defeatist theology of repetition of sin, repent, sin, repent, sin, repent, sin, repent, sin, repent, sin, repent, sin, repent, sin, repent, sin, repent, sin, repent, sin, repent, ad infinitum. Don't you know that Jesus didn't leave us powerless? We are dead to sin, and given Christ Spirit to walk in. That is becoming born again to no longer SIN!
Too many defeatists believe all good things comes after death. That is why the Jews reject our Christ. They know He will put an end to transgressions. Daniel 9:24. That is who they are waiting for, and certainly do not see in modern Christian theology.
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Its almost a blanket blindness within the body of Christ, that you are defining.
Very few believers are left who actually understand that when Paul said this..
"if you walk in the Spirit, you shall not sin".. "you shall not commit works of the flesh".
"Sin shall not have dominion over you"..
Yet, most believers in the world, have no idea that Christ has their sin, that God have given them His righteousness, and repenting and confessing is only proof that a person has no understanding that "Victory in Jesus", over sin, over a carnal lifestyle, is what you are supposed to be BELIEVING and practicing.
Amazing that i can write a Thread : You are supposed to be living a holy life.
And i'l have half the forum come running to tell me....."no no no, we will always sin, didnt you read over there in ...."
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Read the beginning of Revelation 3 on the church age of Sardis. It is the Reformation and Jesus calls it the dead church. When someone does not have the Spirit and power over sins, they make up doctrine to match their experience, and reason away the experience they should have. Some even thought of repentance as a work, and "we are not saved by our works." In Acts 2:38 there is one REPENT, not a continuous repentance. Same with 1 John 1:9. When you are cleansed from all unrighteousness, what more is their to confess. From then on praise Him. When we are free from sin, we are free indeed.
Behold
Well-Known Member
How can we ever be less righteous then the Blood of Jesus made us, when we first believed and were born again?
There is no "out sinning" the Blood Atonement.
"where sin abounds, Grace more abounds".
Of ourselves, we are human...but through God's blood and amazing Grace, we are the REDEEMED who remain as sinless as the Blood of Jesus.
For God to have us, He Himself had to make us as Righteous as He is.....and had this been temporary, then all of us would be hell bound the day after we were saved..
The Righteousness of God, that is our "gift of Righteousness" will keep us as "the righteousness of God in Christ" for as long as God LIVES.
I would say to this that it is only those who are overcomers in the church of Smyrna who will not be hurt of the second death.
I believe that all of the blessing promised to each church are shared equally by believers in all 7 churches. Specifying blessings for each church brings a special focus to each church without denying those blessings for all of the churches.
Is the temple of God located in the lake of fire?
It seems to me that the promise to Philadelphian overcomers (found in Revelation 3:12) is different than the promise to Smyrnian overcomers (found in Revelation 2:11).
Of course, when God says to Smyrna, "you shall not be hurt of the second death;" it may be that he is merely saying to them that they won't be cast into the lake of fire.
While I have found comfort in the idea that although I may not inherit the kingdom of God because of pharmakeia that has been forced upon me (Galatians 5:19-21), that I will nevertheless not feel any pain or suffering or hurt from being cast into the lake of fire; since I find that I have been cast into prison (a mental institution) for a period of ten days more than once in my lifetime (see Revelation 2:8-11).
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Now that can be misunderstood. I'll have to ask you to clarify to see if we actually are on the same page as I thought.
You are either saying:
We still sin, but the atoning blood of Jesus covers our sin so the Father can't see it.
or:
We have been given the power of God to not have any desire to sin, and therefore become partakers of the divine nature.
I believe the latter. I hope you do too.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Yes, all martyrs, but even those today and not just during the church age of Smyrna. They will reign with Christ during the Millennium.
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