WHY IS THE CHURCH GOING OUT BACKWARD?

[marksman]

I know that this is a very overarching heading/comment and many will say it is not because of this church and that church and that lot are doing a good job. But that as it may be, and I don't decry the fact, but if one is to be honest with themselves overall, the church is going out backward.

As I said elsewhere I was talking to a friend and he said that his church has no one under 55 years of age and only two teenagers who are children of members. The church of the same denomination in the next town has no one under 50 years of age.

Most of the churches in my area (45) do not have anyone under 40 years of age. In days gone by I cannot remember being part of any church that did not have teenagers in attendance.

To overcome this, I approached both ministers fraternals in both towns about uniting in evangelism projects. The first one said, "Go away, we are the ones paid to do things around here." The second one said, "We don't have time to do evangelism we are too busy running our churches."

The first one I think got upset because I asked them how many people had been saved in the last year amongst all their churches. The answer was three. My reply was "Doesn't that speak for itself."

"You naughty boy. How dare you suggest we are not perfect."

So, why are so many churches stuck in the mud and are controlled by the status quo especially as the NTC saw things like 3,000 getting saved at one meeting?

There must be reasons and answers so let's see what we can come up with. And can I ask that you think about this before adding your thoughts as I would rather not have off the cuff ideas that are shallow?

 

[mjrhealth]

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

 

[Rita]

Hi Marksmen,
We have a mixture of churches within my local area, the ones that are growing and have a good amount of ages and many young people seem to be those who go out and get involved within the community - they ‘ reach out ‘ those who seem to remain static and do not have many young people seem to believe that people will ‘ come to them ‘.
I am not part of an active church fellowship, but I have often wondered if the ‘ old ways ‘ with evangelism- expecting people to come to the church ‘ is no longer the right way. This worked when many went to church as a matter of duty ( so they came under the truth of the gospel ) Society has changed in most of our countries - we need to make the gospel relevant and real, and how you do that is to show it working in action.
Rita x

 

[marksman]

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Could you give us a bit of a commentary on those verses so that they make sense?

 

[marksman]

Hi Marksmen,
We have a mixture of churches within my local area, the ones that are growing and have a good amount of ages and many young people seem to be those who go out and get involved within the community - they ‘ reach out ‘ those who seem to remain static and do not have many young people seem to believe that people will ‘ come to them ‘.
I am not part of an active church fellowship, but I have often wondered if the ‘ old ways ‘ with evangelism- expecting people to come to the church ‘ is no longer the right way. This worked when many went to church as a matter of duty ( so they came under the truth of the gospel ) Society has changed in most of our countries - we need to make the gospel relevant and real, and how you do that is to show it working in action.
Rita x

One. I don't think you will find anywhere in the New Testament that unbelievers came to "church." The church went to them.

Two. Faith without works is dead. Explained away by a lot of people to avoid doing anything.

 

[Heart2Soul]

One. I don't think you will find anywhere in the New Testament that unbelievers came to "church." The church went to them.

Two. Faith without works is dead. Explained away by a lot of people to avoid doing anything.

I totally agree! It says in Acts that as many as were saved were added to the church....Peter was out evangelizing and saving people and THEN they joined the church...

 

[Heart2Soul]

I know that this is a very overarching heading/comment and many will say it is not because of this church and that church and that lot are doing a good job. But that as it may be, and I don't decry the fact, but if one is to be honest with themselves overall, the church is going out backward.

As I said elsewhere I was talking to a friend and he said that his church has no one under 55 years of age and only two teenagers who are children of members. The church of the same denomination in the next town has no one under 50 years of age.

Most of the churches in my area (45) do not have anyone under 40 years of age. In days gone by I cannot remember being part of any church that did not have teenagers in attendance.

To overcome this, I approached both ministers fraternals in both towns about uniting in evangelism projects. The first one said, "Go away, we are the ones paid to do things around here." The second one said, "We don't have time to do evangelism we are too busy running our churches."

The first one I think got upset because I asked them how many people had been saved in the last year amongst all their churches. The answer was three. My reply was "Doesn't that speak for itself."

"You naughty boy. How dare you suggest we are not perfect."

So, why are so many churches stuck in the mud and are controlled by the status quo especially as the NTC saw things like 3,000 getting saved at one meeting?

There must be reasons and answers so let's see what we can come up with. And can I ask that you think about this before adding your thoughts as I would rather not have off the cuff ideas that are shallow?

For one it is mostly due to young people being raised by parents who don't go to church....also I started a thread about the youth today being totally turned off by the hypocrisy of Christianity....not saying anyone here is guilty but we truly have failed in walking the walk and talking the talk in terms of love and living by example.

 

[Josho]

I know that this is a very overarching heading/comment and many will say it is not because of this church and that church and that lot are doing a good job. But that as it may be, and I don't decry the fact, but if one is to be honest with themselves overall, the church is going out backward.

As I said elsewhere I was talking to a friend and he said that his church has no one under 55 years of age and only two teenagers who are children of members. The church of the same denomination in the next town has no one under 50 years of age.

Most of the churches in my area (45) do not have anyone under 40 years of age. In days gone by I cannot remember being part of any church that did not have teenagers in attendance.

To overcome this, I approached both ministers fraternals in both towns about uniting in evangelism projects. The first one said, "Go away, we are the ones paid to do things around here." The second one said, "We don't have time to do evangelism we are too busy running our churches."

The first one I think got upset because I asked them how many people had been saved in the last year amongst all their churches. The answer was three. My reply was "Doesn't that speak for itself."

"You naughty boy. How dare you suggest we are not perfect."

So, why are so many churches stuck in the mud and are controlled by the status quo especially as the NTC saw things like 3,000 getting saved at one meeting?

There must be reasons and answers so let's see what we can come up with. And can I ask that you think about this before adding your thoughts as I would rather not have off the cuff ideas that are shallow?

Most of the young ones, either don't go to Church or they go to Planet Shakers, Hillsong, the big Pentecostal churches with flashing lights and the louder music, you know.

Also some of the young ones work on Sundays.

 

[Taken]

WHY IS THE CHURCH GOING OUT BACKWARD?
OP^

Because:
The WHOLE World is Corrupt.
The Saving Grace, IS Christ "IN" a man.
Jesus is not OF the World.
Nor is a man IN Christ OF the World.
Jesus Has Overcome the World...
BE of good cheer...
Crazy things must come to be Seen of men.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Agios]

I know that this is a very overarching heading/comment and many will say it is not because of this church and that church and that lot are doing a good job. But that as it may be, and I don't decry the fact, but if one is to be honest with themselves overall, the church is going out backward.

As I said elsewhere I was talking to a friend and he said that his church has no one under 55 years of age and only two teenagers who are children of members. The church of the same denomination in the next town has no one under 50 years of age.

Most of the churches in my area (45) do not have anyone under 40 years of age. In days gone by I cannot remember being part of any church that did not have teenagers in attendance.

To overcome this, I approached both ministers fraternals in both towns about uniting in evangelism projects. The first one said, "Go away, we are the ones paid to do things around here." The second one said, "We don't have time to do evangelism we are too busy running our churches."

The first one I think got upset because I asked them how many people had been saved in the last year amongst all their churches. The answer was three. My reply was "Doesn't that speak for itself."

"You naughty boy. How dare you suggest we are not perfect."

So, why are so many churches stuck in the mud and are controlled by the status quo especially as the NTC saw things like 3,000 getting saved at one meeting?

There must be reasons and answers so let's see what we can come up with. And can I ask that you think about this before adding your thoughts as I would rather not have off the cuff ideas that are shallow?

Disclaimer - I am generalizing (not every Millennial thinks this way).

There is a disconnect between 40+ and the Millennials, church has become irrelevant in their eyes, and many factors play a part. For some reason, the churches (and I am talking about large city churches), decided to attract large number of people by putting on what seems like a rock concert, they add humorous skits, and then the pastor talks for an hour. This might have attracted a whole bunch of people for a couple of decades but it's not working anymore, the Millennials are not interested.

There are cons about the generations coming up under 40 year olds and younger, just like any other generations. Yet, they like to push the status quo, this group makes up the vast majority of engineers, software engineers, CEO's, at company's like Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Facebook - they aren't thinking like a 50 year old. They have been taught an agenda through the public schools, they think differently, the public schools don't like God and Church, this is conveyed (I just recently graduated). I would say the vast majority of them don't want anything to do with church. The church doesn't understand the Millennials, this was the first generation to spend almost all free time on a screen, communication is different, the outlook on jobs is different, the long term goals are different.

Imo, we need to stop trying to attract these generations to a church building, whatever you add to the hour service will not attract them, maybe living life outside of the building, invested in the community, showing what the Church is, walking alongside them, might be an answer. They are busy though, both parents work 40+ hours a week, raising kids, mortgage or high rent, paying for daycare. These parents don't even go to the store, they order everything from Amazon, including clothes, groceries, everything. You would need to go to them, but don't invite them to a church building, they're not going. This would stop all communication between the two.

Yet, on the other hand, Europe is post-Christianity and some say so is the USA.

Just my 2 cents, whatever it's worth.

 

[Philip James]

we need to make the gospel relevant and real, and how you do that is to show it working in action

Preach the gospel always. If necessary, use words..

- St Francis of Assisi


Peace!

 

[Philip James]

Thank you Lord, for using JohnPaul the great, to stir up the fire of Your love in our children.

world youth day - Google Search

Peace!

 

[Taken]

Agios-
Well put.

Not unusual for my own kids to have their "friends" over to my house weekend after weekend. They pooled their money, bought a volleyball net...and madeup teams, had tournaments, (80-100 kids every weekend!)
Kids played, watched others, grilled, cleaned up....They had No issue with the group Prayers...and NONE of them were interested in going to Church...for reasons you identified and others.
Many times we talked, many confessed their Belief, without pomp or water (even though at times we had a super long slip-n-slide going on too).
The winters would slow down the outdoor activities...but not unusual for 8 or 10 kids to still show up, wanting to sit and talk about God, full of questions, they said they never found answers, when they had gone to a Church.
The kids- a mix...black, white, mulatto, Hispanic, Jewish, short, tall, fat, skinny, a few profoundly deaf, a kid who studdered, some with divorced/ or dead parent, one crippled, a few struggling with gender identity....
Point being...NO ONE cared about an others' uniqueness/ difference. The kids all imitated one another, laughed with each other, at each other , helped each other, listened to each other, encouraged and applauded each other.
Rules were Not Missing...(they made the Rules...very good rules) .
Their biggest complaint was always about Being TALK "AT"...(when convenient for an adult)...but rarely did they feel an adult could be bothered to be inconvenienced to "Hear" them...without the interrupting criticisms. So they clam up.

Kids are awesome, and funny, and can't say for others, but a great joy and pretty consistent at making good memories for me.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Chris1964]

I know that this is a very overarching heading/comment and many will say it is not because of this church and that church and that lot are doing a good job. But that as it may be, and I don't decry the fact, but if one is to be honest with themselves overall, the church is going out backward.

As I said elsewhere I was talking to a friend and he said that his church has no one under 55 years of age and only two teenagers who are children of members. The church of the same denomination in the next town has no one under 50 years of age.

Most of the churches in my area (45) do not have anyone under 40 years of age. In days gone by I cannot remember being part of any church that did not have teenagers in attendance.

To overcome this, I approached both ministers fraternals in both towns about uniting in evangelism projects. The first one said, "Go away, we are the ones paid to do things around here." The second one said, "We don't have time to do evangelism we are too busy running our churches."

If that was someones actual response (and i'm not saying its not) then its a dead church, they just don't know it yet. No time for evangelism? Isn't that like, the great commission? "Go, teach, make disciples and baptize.." Everything else is secondary. I've had this conversation recently with some others. You might be a sunday school teacher. You might be involved in music or the technical side of a service; audio, video, social media. Or you might change the diapers in the nursery. Fact is, the proclamation of the gospel always comes first. This last comment reminds me of a sermon which i highly recommend anyone here reading watch. Its Dawson Trotman who founded the Navigators. Its called Born to Reproduce. He talks about this exact kind of busy. And its useless if youre not doing the big job. Do we want to be busy or do we want to be producers?

The first one I think got upset because I asked them how many people had been saved in the last year amongst all their churches. The answer was three. My reply was "Doesn't that speak for itself."

"You naughty boy. How dare you suggest we are not perfect."

So, why are so many churches stuck in the mud and are controlled by the status quo especially as the NTC saw things like 3,000 getting saved at one meeting?

There must be reasons and answers so let's see what we can come up with. And can I ask that you think about this before adding your thoughts as I would rather not have off the cuff ideas that are shallow?

Nothing has changed in 2000 years, not the gospel or Jesus or how one is saved. Many churches have taken their eyes off of Jesus. Some think they have a better plan than He does. And some have mangled the gospel. We need to understand that in these last days, we need to focus on Him evermore. Theres one gospel. Proclaim it.

 

[Bobby Jo]

...
... Many churches have taken their eyes off of Jesus. ...

"Many", (I would argue MOST), church members are too lazy to participate so they leave the "thinking" to the HIRELING.

It's little different from the individual who signs up for a gym membership to watch the "trainer" demonstrate the equipment, -- and neither the "trainer" nor the "member" know how to actually use the equipment. And so the "member" leaves after the "demonstration", weaker than when he came in.


Welcome to "modern Christianity", and thus the "Great Falling Away".
Bobby Jo

 

[Enoch111]

So, why are so many churches stuck in the mud and are controlled by the status quo especially as the NTC saw things like 3,000 getting saved at one meeting?

If you have not heard about "the Great Apostasy" then you will not be able to understand what has happened. The apostasy did not happen overnight among the Protestant, evangelical, and fundamentalist churches, but has been gathering steam since the 19th century.

Essentially the Great Apostasy is a falling away or departure from (1) the true Gospel, (2) Gospel Truth, and (3) Bible Truth. Most churches are not structured according to the New Testament pattern, and active evangelism has taken a back seat to attracting the unsaved to entertainment instead of solid Gospel preaching.

Theological liberalism, the Social Gospel, the Prosperity Gospel, and false teachings have grown rampantly in seminaries and denominations. A good example of what has happened is Christianity Today (CT). It has become a blatantly Leftist publication, and reflects what is happening in Christianity today.

There was absolutely no official policy in America to put blacks into black ghettos, similar to the Europeans putting Jews into Jewish ghettos. So CT lied blatantly in a recent article titled "Justice Too Long Delayed" to promote this myth: "As a matter of policy as well as prejudice, blacks were forced into neighborhoods of ever-deepening poverty, and very few could climb their way out...Perhaps the country is not ready to make reparations. But the history of racial injustice demands personal and corporate response..."

This is another aspect of the "Social Gospel" which eroded the true Gospel many years ago. So CT is recommending reparations for black Americans, when reparations have already been made in many different ways, particularly Affirmative Action, and a multitude of social benefits which do not accrue to poor people of other races.

What CT failed to mention is that too many blacks have failed to take responsibility for their own destructive actions -- against themselves and against other blacks. Individuals CHOOSE drug abuse and criminal activity, and no one forces them into these things.

Black Lives Matter is deliberately using White guilt to promote a Radical Leftist agenda. Not one BLM advocate has publicly condemned Antifa and other Fascist groups for all the rioting, looting, and anarchy which used George Floyd's murder as an excuse. And Christianity Today totally ignore the fact that the Golden Rule works both ways.

 

[farouk]

If that was someones actual response (and i'm not saying its not) then its a dead church, they just don't know it yet. No time for evangelism? Isn't that like, the great commission? "Go, teach, make disciples and baptize.." Everything else is secondary. I've had this conversation recently with some others. You might be a sunday school teacher. You might be involved in music or the technical side of a service; audio, video, social media. Or you might change the diapers in the nursery. Fact is, the proclamation of the gospel always comes first. This last comment reminds me of a sermon which i highly recommend anyone here reading watch. Its Dawson Trotman who founded the Navigators. Its called Born to Reproduce. He talks about this exact kind of busy. And its useless if youre not doing the big job. Do we want to be busy or do we want to be producers?


Nothing has changed in 2000 years, not the gospel or Jesus or how one is saved. Many churches have taken their eyes off of Jesus. Some think they have a better plan than He does. And some have mangled the gospel. We need to understand that in these last days, we need to focus on Him evermore. Theres one gospel. Proclaim it.

Acts 2.42 is a great pattern for local church activities, together with the Great Commission at the end of Matthew 28.

 

[marksman]

Disclaimer - I am generalizing (not every Millennial thinks this way).

There is a disconnect between 40+ and the Millennials, church has become irrelevant in their eyes, and many factors play a part. For some reason, the churches (and I am talking about large city churches), decided to attract large number of people by putting on what seems like a rock concert, they add humorous skits, and then the pastor talks for an hour. This might have attracted a whole bunch of people for a couple of decades but it's not working anymore, the Millennials are not interested.

There are cons about the generations coming up under 40 year olds and younger, just like any other generations. Yet, they like to push the status quo, this group makes up the vast majority of engineers, software engineers, CEO's, at company's like Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Facebook - they aren't thinking like a 50 year old. They have been taught an agenda through the public schools, they think differently, the public schools don't like God and Church, this is conveyed (I just recently graduated). I would say the vast majority of them don't want anything to do with church. The church doesn't understand the Millennials, this was the first generation to spend almost all free time on a screen, communication is different, the outlook on jobs is different, the long term goals are different.

Imo, we need to stop trying to attract these generations to a church building, whatever you add to the hour service will not attract them, maybe living life outside of the building, invested in the community, showing what the Church is, walking alongside them, might be an answer. They are busy though, both parents work 40+ hours a week, raising kids, mortgage or high rent, paying for daycare. These parents don't even go to the store, they order everything from Amazon, including clothes, groceries, everything. You would need to go to them, but don't invite them to a church building, they're not going. This would stop all communication between the two.

Yet, on the other hand, Europe is post-Christianity and some say so is the USA.

Just my 2 cents, whatever it's worth.

Agios a very good post. One that is telling us to wake up to reality. I have to admit that the church, in general, is not good at waking up to reality.
It is still living in the past and has a mentality of it you want what we have got you will have to come and get it which as you said does not work.

I want to share an example of going out to where the people are that was amazingly successful. A young man I know from a church I used to attend decided that God was telling him to go to Melbourne every weekend and minister to the homeless. He did this week in and week out, spending all night on the streets. As a result of his ministry, a church began for the homeless. He passed it on to others to run and went to Sydney. The same thing happened there so there are two churches now meeting the needs of the homeless. Nuf zed.

 

[marksman]

Most of the young ones, either don't go to Church or they go to Planet Shakers, Hillsong, the big Pentecostal churches with flashing lights and the louder music, you know.

Also some of the young ones work on Sundays.

A valid point Josho. Has any church addressed this issue? Do they have meetings at a time suited to those who work on Sunday and call it Sunday workers get together so that they know the church is thinking of them particularly?

I went to Planer Shakers for a year because they had a homegroup in our vicinity. I admit it was during their national conference I experienced God inhabiting the praises of his people. On the Thursday evening during the praise time, I literally felt the Holy Spirit descend like a blanket onto the meeting.

But alas I had to give it away as I have a pacemaker that keeps me alive and during the praise the music was so loud it interfered with the working of my pacemaker. I had to go and stand behind some screens at the back of the room to protect myself.

 

[marksman]

For one it is mostly due to young people being raised by parents who don't go to church....also I started a thread about the youth today being totally turned off by the hypocrisy of Christianity....not saying anyone here is guilty but we truly have failed in walking the walk and talking the talk in terms of love and living by example.

Your post reminded me of a saying that we serve a system, not a Saviour.