What are Your Feelings on Tithes

[Enoch111]

That is another thing, God never intended large churches.

Where do you come up with these doozies? The first church -- the Church at Jerusalem -- had at least 3,000 members, and if you include their families, perhaps 4,000 or more. At the same time, there must be a proportionate number of elders and deacons to minister to everyone (as also noted in Acts).

 

[marks]

We don't need a person to lord over us.

While true, nonetheless . . .

Ephesians 4
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors (lit. shepherds) and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

1 Peter 5
1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
2 Feed (Lit. shepherd) the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being examples to the flock.
4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

Jesus shepherds us directly, and through others.

Much love!

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Where do you come up with these doozies? The first church -- the Church at Jerusalem -- had at least 3,000 members, and if you include their families, perhaps 4,000 or more. At the same time, there must be a proportionate number of elders and deacons to minister to everyone (as also noted in Acts).

So what is the true church? Scripture defines "church" in three distinct ways. First, there is the universal church (often written with a capital C). The universal church consists of all believers in all locations who are truly saved through Jesus Christ. Acts 9:31 is an example of this usage: "So the church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria had peace and was being built up." Here the word church referred to all of the local churches in the region.

The second way church is defined in the Bible is in reference to local churches or congregations. Each home in which believers gathered for regular worship was called a church. For example, Paul wrote, "Greet also the church in their house" (Romans 16:5).

The third way church is defined is in reference to the local churches of a particular city or area. For example, when Paul wrote to the church at Rome, it consisted of multiple house churches or house locations in a particular city. These individual smaller congregations were collectively included as the church at Rome.

 

[amadeus]

there is a little-discussed concept i heard many years ago, "Right Pastor," that a Gsearch returns for a diff concept, for a "church," but i heard it as "the Right Pastor" for a seeker, that ive tried to adhere to since then; and i questioned the choice a couple of times, but was never sorry

The Right Pastor for a seeker is the one God gives as a gift to that seeker. People get in trouble in their searches for the right church and the right pastor, because they bypass God in their search. There are lot of position holders named pastors who have never checked in the Bible or with God as to why they should be in such a position. The blind searchers who have bypassed God should not be surprised to find themselves sitting under such a position holder. Of course without love of truth in their heart they will not know how very wrong they are.

So how does a fella go about finding that Right Pastor for him? Very simply by following God! People often speak of God being all knowing and all powerful, but then they treat Him as if He were blind and deaf and dumb.

Have you ever gone into a church meeting among strangers and discover that everything is locked into place by the human powers that be? Yet some of these blind searchers for Pastor and church will arrive there and checking things against their own list decide for themselves, "This is the place for me"!

 

[justbyfaith]

who is this "we?" Any Muslims in that we?

See 1 John 4:15, John 1:12. If any "muslim" believes that Jesus is the Son of God; and also has received Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, they can certainly be included in the body of Christ.

Christians should understand that temple worship in Jerusalem and Christian worship worldwide are completely different. There is no "trade" to be learned since all believers belong to a priesthood of believers. Which means there cannot be worship *leaders*, and all must participate as the Spirit leads. He is the Leader.

Yes, the Holy Spirit is the one leading worship. However, I would say that music ministers play an integral role in the worship experience; in that the playing of instruments is an integral part of worship. See Psalms 150.

So, while the music minister may be identified as a "worship leader", what he is actually doing is supplying the aspect of worship that has to do with musical instruments.

Now, since most often the whole course of the worship time is directed by the musical instruments, it is not inaccurate to call the music minister a "worship leader" for they are in fact directing the course of the worship service by what and how they are playing on their musical instrument. But of course it is important that the music minister be led of the Holy Spirit, so that the course of the worship service can also be led of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Candidus]

See 1 John 4:15, John 1:12. If any "muslim" believes that Jesus is the Son of God; and also has received Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, they can certainly be included in the body of Christ.

No, this can't be true! Unless they have "the" Gospel of Penal Substitution, and believe that Calvinism is the Gospel; they can't be saved! It's in the Bible!

 

[justbyfaith]

No, this can't be true! Unless they have "the" Gospel of Penal Substitution, and believe that Calvinism is the Gospel; they can't be saved! It's in the Bible!

While Penal Substitution is the reality, a man does not necessarily have to have the knowledge of the doctrine in order to be saved.

Now it ought to definitely be preached; because the knowledge of it is definitely able to bring salvation to the hearer. A person who understands the doctrine will fall in love with Jesus Christ and will be more likely to surrender to Him as Lord and Saviour.

If someone gets saved and does not yet have the knowledge of Penal Substitution in his repertoire of knowledge, you can be certain that if they are truly saved, they will receive the doctrine when they hear it.

It may even be that receiving the doctrine is essential to salvation, I don't know. I do know that the preaching of sound doctrine is essential to salvation for both the preacher and the hearer (1 Timothy 4:16).

So then, since PSA is sound doctrine, it would therefore be essential to salvation.

But if, in first hearing of Christ, a man is unaware of the doctrine as it stands, and the same man also receives the Person of Jesus Christ as his Saviour and as his Lord; of course it is true that the same man is saved through the means by which Christ shall save a man; which is through Penal Substitutionary Atonement. For "Justice and Mercy meet at the Cross."

 

[bbyrd009]

The Right Pastor for a seeker is the one God gives as a gift to that seeker. People get in trouble in their searches for the right church and the right pastor, because they bypass God in their search. There are lot of position holders named pastors who have never checked in the Bible or with God as to why they should be in such a position. The blind searchers who have bypassed God should not be surprised to find themselves sitting under such a position holder. Of course without love of truth in their heart they will not know how very wrong they are.

So how does a fella go about finding that Right Pastor for him? Very simply by following God! People often speak of God being all knowing and all powerful, but then they treat Him as if He were blind and deaf and dumb.

Have you ever gone into a church meeting among strangers and discover that everything is locked into place by the human powers that be? Yet some of these blind searchers for Pastor and church will arrive there and checking things against their own list decide for themselves, "This is the place for me"!

yeh, little congregations are for me, lots more informal interactive

 

[bbyrd009]

:12. If any "muslim" believes that Jesus is the Son of God; and also has received Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, they can certainly be included in the body of Christ

you dont even realize youre doing it, huh
dont you see that leads to brown uniforms man
what youre doing there
its like this and like that

 

[bbyrd009]

Where do you come up with these doozies? The first church -- the Church at Jerusalem -- had at least 3,000 members, and if you include their families, perhaps 4,000 or more. At the same time, there must be a proportionate number of elders and deacons to minister to everyone (as also noted in Acts).

who surely arose then, but maybe are more often elected now yeh
and im aware of the vv; and how they are interpreted tho

 

[bbyrd009]

the 501c3 really says it all i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

heil

 

[amadeus]

the 501c3 really says it all i guess

LOL... How many churches do not have that 501c3 agreement with Uncle Sam?

 

[Waiting on him]

Here's an oldy with some content

 

[LC627]

I suppose that you think the old ways are better.

As for me, I am blessed by the anointed worship that I hear coming from those who are even paid to play on an instrument.

There are also many new songs that have been brought into the family of God since the old days when many of those hymnals were created. So I suppose that we can create new hymnals to accommodate those songs. Thing is, many of those songs were intended to be sung with guitar accompaniment.

So then, what you are proposing is that we get rid of those songs and go back to singing what the church used to sing 100 years ago.

I suppose that that would be fine and dandy (for some of those songs are wonderful); but I don't believe that it is the will of our Lord. It is His will that we put new wine into new wineskins: a fresh anointing for a new generation.

I suggest that we don't have the church look like the world. We are set apart as believers and our congregations should reflect that. Rock bands have no place in church service.

As for the fresh anointing for a new generation...if we stick with sound doctrine and pursue righteousness there is no need for a "fresh" anointing. Preach the Word, let the Spirit work, and worship God with reverence.

 

[justbyfaith]

I suggest that we don't have the church look like the world. We are set apart as believers and our congregations should reflect that. Rock bands have no place in church service.

As for the fresh anointing for a new generation...if we stick with sound doctrine and pursue righteousness there is no need for a "fresh" anointing. Preach the Word, let the Spirit work, and worship God with reverence.

I simply disagree with you. A fresh anointing is definitely needed. Of course sound doctrine is important too; I am all about sound doctrine.

There is nothing wrong with a guitar and drums as instruments in a worship service.

You would get rid of more than half of all of the worship songs that we sing today.

 

[justbyfaith]

you dont even realize youre doing it, huh
dont you see that leads to brown uniforms man
what youre doing there
its like this and like that

Muslims as a general rule don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

If any "muslim" started to believe that Jesus is the Son of God, he would be defined more accurately as a Christian at that point.

I think it is even a tenet of sharia law that those who confess that Jesus is the Son of God are worthy of beheading.

Nevertheless, if anyone does confess, the scripture is clear....that God abides in him add he in Him (1 John 4:15).

 

[justbyfaith]

dont you see that leads to brown uniforms man

Not everyone wearing a brown uniform is necessarily a muslim.

 

[mailmandan]

This wasn't speaking of tithing, it was for the poor Christians in Jerusalem at that time. Tithing is not mentioned anywhere in the letters to the churches.

Jesus only mentioned thithing to the scribes and Pharisees and He was calling them 'hypocrites'.
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Give to the church what you feel good in giving, but don't look down on members that are not inclined to do so.

Which is my point. Give to the church, but tithing is not mentioned anywhere in the letters to the churches.

 

[justbyfaith]

Which is my point. Give to the church, but tithing is not mentioned anywhere in the letters to the churches.

Consider 2 Peter 1:3-4, Hebrews 11:33, 2 Corinthians 1:20, and Romans 4:20-22.

There are promises in the Old Testament that apply to New Testament saints.

Among them is what is found in Malachi 3.

Of course, 2 Corinthians 8 and 2 Corinthians 9 is given as the teaching for New Testament Christians concerning giving to the church.

Malachi 3 would teach us of a bare minimum that we ought to give as we sow and reap, either sparingly or bountifully, of financial seed.