The Supernatural, paranormal and the artificial

[Giuliano]

The answer can be found in this verse.

Amos 3:7
Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets.

God is still revealing secrets to the prophets today, the prophet's job is to pass what is revealed by God to the people. And it isn't always ear tickling news. ;)

I wouldn't go as far as you have. Prophets do not always pass on everything they are told. God gave dominion over the earth to man. It is up to men and women what happens. We can summon either demons or angels. If we summon demons, that gives them the right to enter the world and to operate. If we summon angels, we are inviting the Power of God to manifest. That may not involve a prophet telling others.

Much of the time, the Power of God manifests by one of His servants using his tongue. If God speaks a Word through one of His servants, there is Power behind that Word which goes out into the world -- and will not return void. In a way, you can compare it to a physical sound at the appropriate pitch can make a glass vibrate and shatter. What is worth preserving is preserved and what is not worth preserving is shaken apart.

One man by himself can alter the whole world if God's Will is behind him and if God speaks a Word through his mouth. His words are spirit as Jesus' were; and what he speaks is not his own words.

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Some prophets, I think, understood mysteries they did not try to explain. It was enough that they allowed God to move through them -- some without understanding everything, some with understanding more.

How the Word, once spoken, interacts with the physical world might be hard to explain; but it can interact. Thus we see Jesus "speaking" and the wind calms down. Speaking is mentioned here too:

Matthew 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

There are different "types" of Words. Call them "voices" or "trumps" if you want. They were present in Eden and we see them again in Revelation.

 

[historyb]

And then there is the shocking cases, there are a lot of Christians that do not understand mental health illnesses, some do not even have a basic understanding of mental health problems, I am talking about things like depression, some Christians will jump to conclusions and confuse mental health illnesses with someone being demonically possessed, some will try to deliver them from demons when the person is not actually demon possessed, but really they have just went through some rough circumstances and have suffered a mental illness as a result. As a result a person is not recovered and ends up walking away from the Church, with trust damaged. This is why it's so important that we have Christians that operate in the gifts of discernment and words of knowledge, these are 2 very important spiritual gifts, we need believers that can accurately diagnose someone's problems, we cannot just play the guessing game or make assumptions.

This is something huge I have seen a lot in my protestant evangelical days, that if someone came with any mental illness they had a demon and I seen the same thing on WOF TV shows. I till see it on some Christian forums too. When I become Catholic and now Traditional Protestant it is never assumed demon first, the person is asked, observed by professionals first to absolutely make sure there is no mental illness than we jumped to the demonic after that and do exorcism.

 

[historyb]

Well said Josho,
I was once one of those "pretenders", with "tongues". I just wanted to be such a part of Gods Church and nothing "just came out" it was me all along. And, when the pastor tried to "slay me in the Spirit" (still do not see that as biblical or edifying the body) he pushed, hard and I was not about to fall under his power...I think he got mad. I was told I did not have the faith!!! Wow. I agree with every single thing you say here and have known it for sometime now. I do not usually get on these kinds of threads as, i do not know and will not say one way or another on the gifts until or unless The Lord shows me, I don't follow men.
xo

When I was four years old by parents went to a revival and she went up for prayer. The pastor took me and I remember thinking he was a nice guy until he put his free hand on my mothers forehead and saw him push her to get "slain in the spirit" well I punched him in the nose my dad told me. My dad ran up and took me and my dad told me later that he had water in his eyes from my little punch. I can remember thinking no one pushes my mommy

 

[Joseph77]

Angels are spirits and yet they have the ability to appear as flesh and blood people. How to you know demons can't do the same thing.
?

From his own post, it appears, in his own words, unknowingly, A demon did , to him, but he thought it was a good guy and believed the lie.

 

[Nancy]

When I was four years old by parents went to a revival and she went up for prayer. The pastor took me and I remember thinking he was a nice guy until he put his free hand on my mothers forehead and saw him push her to get "slain in the spirit" well I punched him in the nose my dad told me. My dad ran up and took me and my dad told me later that he had water in his eyes from my little punch. I can remember thinking no one pushes my mommy

Ahaha! Priceless ❤

 

[brian100]

The devils get up into your head... the Saints come visit you in person.

I know both.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

The devils get up into your head... the Saints come visit you in person.

I know both.

No they do not;lk16
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

 

[brian100]

You have never heard devils talk in your head? (this is not a test)

 

[historyb]

Voices in your head can be a sign of a mental illness not demons

 

[brian100]

Voices in your head can be a sign of a mental illness not demons

And saying mental illness is the cause of devils disproves your faith.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

You have never heard devils talk in your head? (this is not a test)

No.
Greater is He that is in you than he who is in the world.

 

[historyb]

Most people don't hear the devil in their head but people with problems do. You @brian100 need to seek medical help at this point

 

[quietthinker]

Well said Josho,
I was once one of those "pretenders", with "tongues". I just wanted to be such a part of Gods Church and nothing "just came out" it was me all along. And, when the pastor tried to "slay me in the Spirit" (still do not see that as biblical or edifying the body) he pushed, hard and I was not about to fall under his power...I think he got mad. I was told I did not have the faith!!! Wow. I agree with every single thing you say here and have known it for sometime now. I do not usually get on these kinds of threads as, i do not know and will not say one way or another on the gifts until or unless The Lord shows me, I don't follow men.
xo

The many counterfeits that exist will only snow those who are not familiar with the genuine, hence it is critical to be familiar with Gods words ie, ingest them, mull them over with prayerful attitude. I say God's words because they are creative power, 'they make wise the simple',
they call into existence that which does not exist. God's words are no match for the enemy....Jesus relied on them in his severely weakened state after forty days of fasting living in the elements.....and angels came and ministered to him afterwards. We can be assured of the same support.

 

[quietthinker]

The devils get up into your head... the Saints come visit you in person.

I know both.

The scripture says the dead are dead.....so what you deem as 'saints' are demons in disguise.

 

[brian100]

Queitthink,

The scripture says the dead are dead.....so what you deem as 'saints' are demons in disguise.

You just contradicted yourself.. You said 'the Saints are dead' but Devils are not. Why do you even believe in Jesus? his Kingdom is Life.

 

[Josho]

I wouldn't go as far as you have. Prophets do not always pass on everything they are told. God gave dominion over the earth to man. It is up to men and women what happens. We can summon either demons or angels. If we summon demons, that gives them the right to enter the world and to operate. If we summon angels, we are inviting the Power of God to manifest. That may not involve a prophet telling others.

Much of the time, the Power of God manifests by one of His servants using his tongue. If God speaks a Word through one of His servants, there is Power behind that Word which goes out into the world -- and will not return void. In a way, you can compare it to a physical sound at the appropriate pitch can make a glass vibrate and shatter. What is worth preserving is preserved and what is not worth preserving is shaken apart.

One man by himself can alter the whole world if God's Will is behind him and if God speaks a Word through his mouth. His words are spirit as Jesus' were; and what he speaks is not his own words.

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Some prophets, I think, understood mysteries they did not try to explain. It was enough that they allowed God to move through them -- some without understanding everything, some with understanding more.

How the Word, once spoken, interacts with the physical world might be hard to explain; but it can interact. Thus we see Jesus "speaking" and the wind calms down. Speaking is mentioned here too:

Matthew 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

There are different "types" of Words. Call them "voices" or "trumps" if you want. They were present in Eden and we see them again in Revelation.

True, just like John didn't write down what the 7 thunders said in Revelation chapter 10.

4 And when the seven thunders had sounded, I was about to write, but I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Seal up what the seven thunders have said, and do not write it down.”

 

[Giuliano]

This is something huge I have seen a lot in my protestant evangelical days, that if someone came with any mental illness they had a demon and I seen the same thing on WOF TV shows. I till see it on some Christian forums too. When I become Catholic and now Traditional Protestant it is never assumed demon first, the person is asked, observed by professionals first to absolutely make sure there is no mental illness than we jumped to the demonic after that and do exorcism.

Do you see the problem with this? If a Catholic Bishop cannot tell if someone is possessed or mentally ill, it means the Bishop can't detect demons when they are present. Then I have to ask if that Bishop can tell if someone has the Holy Spirit or not.

 

[Giuliano]

True, just like John didn't write down what the 7 thunders said in Revelation chapter 10.

4 And when the seven thunders had sounded, I was about to write, but I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Seal up what the seven thunders have said, and do not write it down.”

Good catch!

 

[Nancy]

The many counterfeits that exist will only snow those who are not familiar with the genuine, hence it is critical to be familiar with Gods words ie, ingest them, mull them over with prayerful attitude. I say God's words because they are creative power, 'they make wise the simple',
they call into existence that which does not exist. God's words are no match for the enemy....Jesus relied on them in his severely weakened state after forty days of fasting living in the elements.....and angels came and ministered to him afterwards. We can be assured of the same support.

A big Amen to that Quietthinker,
Yes, we are to eat on His Word daily and yes, with a prayerful attitude. "It is written..." is one of my favorite sayings of Jesus against the evil one. And yes, we too can do the same no matter what it is that comes at us. It's the settling the mind that can be a big deterrent to me personally when approaching His word...and prayer. But...He will answer my prayer for a sound and quiet mind, I have no doubt there. :)

 

[Waiting on him]

For me fruits also can include results in the practical world. I think the demonic wishes to see death and destruction while the angelic wants to see life and harmony. If someone called himself a shepherd but led the sheep into danger and their lives were lost because of his incompetence, I can't see his a a competent shepherd. He could be lacking in love as you say. He could be lacking wisdom or power. He may like sheep but was too lazy to study the terrain to see where perils existed or to be able to plan ahead so they would have proper food and water. He could also be too lazy to train himself how to defend them against attack -- or too cowardly to defend them.

I believe if we love, truly love, we must seek wisdom and power also. Paul calls those faith, hope and charity -- the three go together. We are as strong as our weakest point -- and if someone is strong in one but weaker in the other two, his strength in the first will decrease unless he grows in the other two. I think Paul places importance on charity first because it's easier to start with that and increase the other two.

Someone who leads others into disaster is not hearing from God. That cannot be. While I believe in forgiving such leaders if they repent, I also think they should realize they are not fit ministers. Some of them fooled themselves. They should recognize they were guided by something other than God. People who trusted them should also see that and not allow themselves to be fooled a second time by continuing to accept failures as ministers.

Congregations are responsible for this. It is a sin to tempt to others to sin. If I knew someone had been addicted to pain pills and gotten into illegal drugs when the supply of legal pills ran out, I should not tempt him to fall again by letting pain pills in my medicine cabinet if he comes to visit. If he winds up in jail because I tempted him that way, I'm partly to blame. If a man was caught in adultery and says he's sorry, that's fine, but women should not be tempting him to repeat his offense by being alone with him, by wearing overly daring clothes, or by making gestures that could be construed as enticing. If we know the weaknesses of others and love them, we may have to adjust our own lives to avoid tempting them to sin.

What is wrong about removing failed ministers or prophets? It will hurt their feelings? If we say that, we are saying such men are motivated by pride. What is wrong about demoting someone and giving him a lesser job or perhaps no job involving trust or responsibility? In the past ten or twenty years, we have seen how poorly things turned out for the Catholic Church when they were "too easy" on offending priests. Bishops were often motivated by wanting to protect the priests rather than the congregations. It didn't work for them; and to a large extent, they have stopped trying to protect the bad apples. Protestants might learn from the mistakes of the Catholics in how to deal with failed ministers and the like.

Jonestown would be a good example.