RAPTURE QUESTIONS

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JunChosen

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So far from what I've read in this thread, @Bobby Jo has the only correct path but alas, he too does not have the perception to put things together.

We cannot understand the end times without studying the last four verses of the 70 Weeks of Daniel Chapter 9. So study away and focus mainly on verses 24-27.

To God Be The Glory
 
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Bobby Jo

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... the 70th week does not immediately follow the 69th ...

You regurgitate the LIES of the commentators, and ignore the TRUTH of the Scholars.

Perhaps you should start by:
1. Obeying the angel's instructions in 12: 4 & 9, which discounts an ancient fulfillment.
2. Correctly interpreting the "weeks" as durations which are necessarily NOT WEEKS of years.
3. Discover WHERE GOD DIRECTLY and SPECIFICALLY provided the "going forth of the word" -- in modern history.
4. Identify who the FIRST "anointed one" was after the seven; and who the SECOND "anointed one" was after the sixty-two.
5. Find the "FLOOD" which ends the sixty-two durations.
6. Find the seventieth [LITERAL seven year duration] "week".​

... and if you need any help, please ask. But don't repeat their LIES.
Bobby Jo
 

BOWnQUIVER

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my next question

1 THES. 4 [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1COR.15 [51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] for this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Will Job be amoung the dead in Christ who will be “changed” at the 1Cor.15 event?

1 CORINTHIANS 10[1] Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all OUR FATHERS were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they DRANK OF THAT SPIRITUAL ROCK that followed them: and THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST.

Yes, according to scripture

JOB 14 [10] But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?[11] As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:[12] So MAN LIETH DOWN, AND RISETH NOT: TILL THE HEAVENS BE NO MORE, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.[13] O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! [14] IF A MAN DIE, SHALL HE LIVE AGAIN? all the days of my appointed time will I WAIT, TILL MY CHANGE COME.

Job says after the heavens be no more, then shall his "change" come

2PET.3 [10] But THE DAY OF THE LORD WILL COME as a thief in the night; in the which THE HEAVENS SHALL PASS AWAY with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up

Job says his "change" will come when the heavens be no more. Above scripture tells us the heavens be no more at the coming of the Day of the Lord. Which occurs {according to scripture} after the great tribulation

ISAIAH 34 [2] For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.[3] Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.[4] And all the host of HEAVEN SHALL BE DISSOLVED, and the heavens shall be rolled together AS A SCROLL: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. [8] For it is THE DAY OF THE LORD'S VENGEANCE, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

REVELATION 6 [12] And I beheld when he had opened THE SIXTH SEAL, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; ......[14] And the heaven departed AS A SCROLL when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places...... [16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: [17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

So scripture proves Job will be changed {in the twinkling of an eye} after the tribulation period on the Day of the Lord. So my next question is why wasnt Job invited to the to the pre-trib rapture
 
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Keraz

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Will Job be amoung the dead in Christ who will be “changed” at the 1Cor.15 event?
Yes Job and David and Lazarus, and every person that has ever lived will be there when the prophecy of 1 Corinthians 15:50-56 takes place.
That is because it will happen AFTER the Millennium, proved by how it is only then that Death will be no more. Revelation 21:4

The false teaching of a resurrection, of anyone other than the Trib martyrs, Rev 20:4, before the Great White Throne Judgment, is a lie and will never happen.
Even during the Millennium, as Isaiah 65:20 tell us; there will still be death. Immortality is only given to those whose names are found in the Book of Life, that is opened at the GWT, not before!
 

marksman

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PSALM 110 [1] The LORD said unto my Lord, SIT THOU AT MY RIGHT HAND, UNTIL I MAKE THINE ENEMIES THY FOOTSTOOL. [2] The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. [3] Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. [4] The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. [5] The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in THE DAY OF HIS WRATH.

Well, ya see what the scripture says. Jesus will be at the right hand of God UNTIL His enemies are His footstool. Jesus is still there {at the fathers right hand} UNTIL His day of wrath. The Day of the Lord.

ZEPHANIAH 1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. [15] THAT DAY IS A DAY OF WRATH, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, [16] A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. [17] And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung. [18] Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in THE DAY OF THE LORD'S WRATH; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

Yup. His day of wrath IS the Day of the Lord. Will Jesus sneak away from the Fathers right hand 7 years before the Day of the Lord and bring us to heaven as the Rapturist claim. Or will scripture come to pass only as written?

You have taken a couple of verses and put your own take on them. That is proof-texting where you can make any verse say what you want it to say. If you want to be taken seriously, you will need to delve into what the scripture says about a subject in its totality. That is called exegesis. Only then can you speak with authority on the subject.

I spent two years studying one subject before I wrote one word about it. Another one I read over 60 books on the subject before I wrote one word about it. Another one I wrote a dissertation for a Ph.D. before I wrote a word about it. Plus I have spent two years full-time study at Bible College to give me a greater understanding of the Word of God.

As the scripture says. Study to show yourselves approved unto God, a workman that is not ashamed....

Most Christians survive on a proof-text sermon on Sunday morning but little else. I spend several hours a day studying the Word of God.

.
 
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quietthinker

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The end of 1 Thess. 4 speaks of the Rapture of the church; the beginning of 1 Thess. 5 speaks of the Day of the Lord in judgment upon earth.
You might want to reconsider this farouk. Your reply here is unsound exegesis.
 
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Rocky Wiley

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PSALM 110 [1] The LORD said unto my Lord, SIT THOU AT MY RIGHT HAND, UNTIL I MAKE THINE ENEMIES THY FOOTSTOOL. [2] The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. [3] Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. [4] The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. [5] The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in THE DAY OF HIS WRATH.

Well, ya see what the scripture says. Jesus will be at the right hand of God UNTIL His enemies are His footstool. Jesus is still there {at the fathers right hand} UNTIL His day of wrath. The Day of the Lord.
There is not going to be a rapture. At the end of this age the wicked are taken and burned. We will be here on earth and be forever with our LORD.
 
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JunChosen

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There is not going to be a rapture. At the end of this age the wicked are taken and burned. We will be here on earth and be forever with our LORD.

What happened to Revelation 21:1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea"?

What a sad case to be all alone on a sinful cursed earth!

To God Be the Glory
 

Timtofly

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my next question

1 THES. 4 [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1COR.15 [51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] for this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Will Job be amoung the dead in Christ who will be “changed” at the 1Cor.15 event?

1 CORINTHIANS 10[1] Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all OUR FATHERS were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they DRANK OF THAT SPIRITUAL ROCK that followed them: and THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST.

Yes, according to scripture

JOB 14 [10] But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?[11] As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:[12] So MAN LIETH DOWN, AND RISETH NOT: TILL THE HEAVENS BE NO MORE, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.[13] O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! [14] IF A MAN DIE, SHALL HE LIVE AGAIN? all the days of my appointed time will I WAIT, TILL MY CHANGE COME.

Job says after the heavens be no more, then shall his "change" come

2PET.3 [10] But THE DAY OF THE LORD WILL COME as a thief in the night; in the which THE HEAVENS SHALL PASS AWAY with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up

Job says his "change" will come when the heavens be no more. Above scripture tells us the heavens be no more at the coming of the Day of the Lord. Which occurs {according to scripture} after the great tribulation

ISAIAH 34 [2] For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.[3] Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.[4] And all the host of HEAVEN SHALL BE DISSOLVED, and the heavens shall be rolled together AS A SCROLL: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. [8] For it is THE DAY OF THE LORD'S VENGEANCE, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

REVELATION 6 [12] And I beheld when he had opened THE SIXTH SEAL, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; ......[14] And the heaven departed AS A SCROLL when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places...... [16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: [17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

So scripture proves Job will be changed {in the twinkling of an eye} after the tribulation period on the Day of the Lord. So my next question is why wasnt Job invited to the to the pre-trib rapture
Job talked to God directly. Job did not even have a single Scripture to quote. What Job proclaimed was the wisdom of fallen humanity. At the end God straitened out Job's foolish thinking. Job may have been the only righteous person in the whole world. Making Job a test case even before Abraham, does not make any sense.
 

Rocky Wiley

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What happened to Revelation 21:1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea"?

What a sad case to be all alone on a sinful cursed earth!
To God Be the Glory
Heaven and earth was the Temple in Jerusalem where man and God did meet. This first heaven and earth passed away in 70 AD.
The new heaven and earth are Christians, where God lives in the new temple of Christians. We call it as 'having the Holy Ghost'.
 

JunChosen

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Heaven and earth was the Temple in Jerusalem where man and God did meet. This first heaven and earth passed away in 70 AD.
The new heaven and earth are Christians, where God lives in the new temple of Christians. We call it as 'having the Holy Ghost'.

Where did you get the notion that the temple in Jerusalem is the first heaven and the first earth?

AND, how do you understand the meaning of the word "sea" in Revelation 1:1?

To God Be The Glory
 
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Rocky Wiley

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Where did you get the notion that the temple in Jerusalem is the first heaven and the first earth?

AND, how do you understand the meaning of the word "sea" in Revelation 1:1?

To God Be The Glory

A few years back I found a few writings by a Jewish teacher that wrote about Heaven and Earth. It made sense so I accepted it. She also pointed out that it was where Adam and Eve were formed. If God and man were together it has generally been where the temple would be or was built.

The sea came about by reading also.
 
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JunChosen

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A few years back I found a few writings by a Jewish teacher that wrote about Heaven and Earth. It made sense so I accepted it. She also pointed out that it was where Adam and Eve were formed. If God and man were together it has generally been where the temple would be or was built.

The sea came about by reading also.

So you are one of those that believe in the writings of others. Myself, I believe only the Bible for truths concerning the things of God. Therefore, you and I cannot have dialogue because I believe that the Gospel I follow is determined and circumscribed by the Bible alone and in its entirety is the word of God.

Nothing against you or your beliefs.

To God Be The Glory
 

BOWnQUIVER

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You have taken a couple of verses and put your own take on them. That is proof-texting where you can make any verse say what you want it to say. If you want to be taken seriously, you will need to delve into what the scripture says about a subject in its totality. That is called exegesis. Only then can you speak with authority on the subject.

I spent two years studying one subject before I wrote one word about it. Another one I read over 60 books on the subject before I wrote one word about it. Another one I wrote a dissertation for a Ph.D. before I wrote a word about it. Plus I have spent two years full-time study at Bible College to give me a greater understanding of the Word of God.

As the scripture says. Study to show yourselves approved unto God, a workman that is not ashamed....

Most Christians survive on a proof-text sermon on Sunday morning but little else. I spend several hours a day studying the Word of God.

.

You read over 60 books on 1 subject. WOW! You are somethin alright. Ive only read 2 books my whole life. The Babe Ruth story and the Bible. And today is 7/14. WOW! What A coincidence.

1 JOHN 2 [26] These things have I written unto you CONCERNING THEM THAT SEDUCE YOU. [27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, AND YE NEED NOT THAT ANY MAN TEACH YOU: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.