Salvation Through Baptism ???

[Mr C]

In Romans 6:4, the phrase "buried with Him through baptism," seems to support the idea that baptism is the instrumental cause of justification. However, even here baptism could be understood as the sign of justification. It is not unusual in Scripture to call the reality by the name of its sign. Thus, for example, Paul says that all Christians are circumcised (even though one may not be physically circumcised) - meaning that they possess what circumcision signifies (Philippians 3:3). Using this kind of language, Paul can speak of the reality of the believers’ spiritual union with Christ, and the benefits which flow from that union, in terms of baptism, its sign.

We are forced to give this interpretation by the context. Before mentioning baptism in chapter 6, Paul had repeatedly emphasized that FAITH, not baptism is the instrumental cause of salvation/justification (Romans 1:16, 3:22-30; 4:4-6, 13; 5:1). That is when the old man was put to death and united in the likeness of His death, which water baptism symbolizes and pictures. Righteousness is "imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised up because of our justification" (Romans 4:24,25).

As Greek scholar AT Robertson explains, "A symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality."

Romans 6:3 Commentary - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament
Romans 6:4 Commentary - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

Since believers receive the benefits of Christ’s death and resurrection (justification), and that through faith, believers must be spiritually united to Him (delivered and raised up with Him). If baptism is taken as the instrumental cause, then Paul contradicts what he had established before, namely that justification is by FAITH, not baptism. *Hermeneutics. Paul clearly teaches that what is signified in baptism (buried and raised with Christ) actually occurs "through faith." Christians are "buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead" (Colossians 2:12). Justification on account of union in Christ's death, burial and resurrection is brought about "through faith" - and is properly symbolized by immersing the new believer in and out of the water.

Newness of life comes at the point of baptism (not before baptism). (Rom.6:3-6)

This helps to prove baptism is necessary for salvation.



Notice (Col. 2:11,12) mentions being raise up WITH HIM.

Raised up out of what?

Raised up out of water according to (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40) (Jn 3:3-5,23) (1Peter 3:20,21)


Notice the words WITH HIM comes after baptism (not before baptism).

That's an important fact.

 

[mailmandan]

(Heb.10:22) (Titus 3:5)

Hebrews 10:22 (NASB) - let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. *Notice the order. Reference to this verse as proving regeneration, or the new birth, by water baptism ignores the point of the contrasting of that sprinkling which affects the heart, removing from it an evil conscience, and that washing of the body with pure water. It is the sprinkling (with the Blood of Christ- Hebrews 9:14; I Peter 1:2) which touches the heart. The washing of pure water affects the body. Paul was careful to distinguish between an outward circumcision, which was of the flesh (Romans 2:28-29) and an inward circumcision, which was of the heart. The true Jew, the true child of Abraham (and therefore the true Christian) has the inward circumcision of the heart, not only the outward, and this is accomplished by the "sprinkling of the blood of Christ" (I Peter 1:2), not by a washing in water in the ordinance of water baptism. Even Peter said - "not the removal of the dirt from the flesh," but the answer of a good conscience toward God. Through the resurrection of Jesus Christ." (1 Peter 3:21).

The writer of Hebrews shows us that no outward ceremony affects the heart (Hebrews 9:13ff.). He would not, and does not contradict himself here by teaching that the washing of the body in water accomplishes an inward cleansing. The former is inward and spiritual, "of the heart" (Romans 2:28-29), and the latter is outward and physical, or "of the flesh" (Romans 2:28-29). The washing of the body in pure water does not present baptism as the means of the cleansing or purifying of the heart. The sprinkling with the Blood of Christ is, and washing our bodies with water is expressly distinguished from sprinkling with the Blood of Christ. Since water baptism is not the means of purifying the heart from sin, it is not the means of regeneration, and it is not absolutely necessary for salvation.

The Bible says in Titus 3:5 that it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, (literally, "of works which are done in righteousness") and this passage fully refutes the doctrine of meritorious works, including water baptism. See Matthew 3:15. When Jesus was water baptized, He said it was fitting to fulfill all righteousness. Water baptism is a work of righteousness and we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done. (Titus 3:5) The washing of regeneration is not accomplished by water baptism. The word "washing" in the Strong's Greek Concordance with Vine's Number 3067 - (Loutron) "a bath, a laver" is used *metaphorically of the Word of God, as the instrument of spiritual cleansing,* (Ephesians 5:26; and Titus 3:5), of the "washing of regeneration."

 

[mailmandan]

Newness of life comes at the point of baptism (not before baptism). (Rom.6:3-6)

This helps to prove baptism is necessary for salvation.

Notice (Col. 2:11,12) mentions being raise up WITH HIM.

Raised up out of what?

Raised up out of water according to (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40) (Jn 3:3-5,23) (1Peter 3:20,21)

Your argument doesn't prove that water baptism is necessary for salvation, but it shows that you confuse the picture (water baptism) with the reality (Spirit baptism). Again, as Greek scholar AT Robertson explains - "A symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality."

Romans 6:4 Commentary - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

 

[mailmandan]

(Acts 2:38,47 ; 22:16 ; 8:5,12,13,26-40)

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

Acts 2:47 - ..And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. How are we saved? By grace through faith, not works.

Acts 4:4 - However, many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.

Acts 5:14 - And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women.

*Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - WHAT IS TRUTH: Acts 22:16--Baptism Essential for Salvation?

In regards to Acts 8, Simon the sorcerer in Samaria is said to have "believed and was baptized" at the preaching of Philip (Acts 8:13) but later, when Simon offers the apostles money to have their ability to impart the Holy Spirit (verses 18–19), he is rebuked by Peter. Peter answered: "May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God." (verses 20-21) Even though we read that Simon "believed," the remainder of the verse hints at the true object of his belief: "the miracles and signs which were done." No proof of salvation by water baptism here, but only of a false conversion.

In regards to the conversion of the eunuch in Acts 8:26-39, notice in verse 36 that the eunuch said, "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” 37 Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." So the eunuch believed BEFORE he received water baptism and in John 20:31, we read - but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. During the conversion of these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47, we see that they believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (spiritual gift which is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) all BEFORE water baptism.

 

[kcnalp]

No contradiction. Christ and the Apostles said to believe and be baptized. If that does not happen it is between you and Christ. Where is Paradise? You are saying that Christ went to heaven and back to the tomb, resurrected and then ascended to heaven. There is nothing in the storyline that suggest this. We can speculate what paradise is, but it is all speculation.

So all who can't be baptized are going to Hell?

 

[kcnalp]

Newness of life comes at the point of baptism (not before baptism). (Rom.6:3-6)

This helps to prove baptism is necessary for salvation.



Notice (Col. 2:11,12) mentions being raise up WITH HIM.

Raised up out of what?

Raised up out of water according to (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40) (Jn 3:3-5,23) (1Peter 3:20,21)


Notice the words WITH HIM comes after baptism (not before baptism).

That's an important fact.

I believed and confessed Jesus with all my heart weeks before I was baptized. I was saved before water baptism! ONLY the Blood of Jesus washes away sins, not water baptism!

 

[kcnalp]

Newness of life comes at the point of baptism (not before baptism). (Rom.6:3-6)

This helps to prove baptism is necessary for salvation.

So all who can't be baptized will burn in Hell? Nah!

 

[mailmandan]

I believed and confessed Jesus with all my heart weeks before I was baptized. I was saved before water baptism! ONLY the Blood of Jesus washes away sins, not water baptism!

I believed and confessed Jesus with all my heart several years ago on a Saturday night, but was unable to receive water baptism until Sunday morning, yet was still saved on Saturday night prior to receiving water baptism on Sunday morning. Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. (Romans 10:9,10)

Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching.

1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing that Jesus is Lord.

 

[kcnalp]

I believed and confessed Jesus with all my heart several years ago on a Saturday night, but was unable to receive water baptism until Sunday morning, yet was still saved on Saturday night prior to receiving water baptism on Sunday morning. Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. (Romans 10:9,10)

Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching.

1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing that Jesus is Lord.

I have no doubt that many will be in God's eternal Kingdom who weren't baptized and many will be rejected who were baptized. Salvation is a matter of the heart, not water baptism.

 

[mailmandan]

So all who can't be baptized will burn in Hell? Nah!

Amen! It logically follows that we get water baptized after we believe the gospel and obtain salvation, but if someone is on their death bed and cannot get baptized before death, they will still be saved because they BELIEVED (John 3:18; Acts 10:43; Romans 1:16) which is in harmony with Mark 16:16(b) ..but he who does not believe will be condemned and with John 3:18 ..but he who does not believe is condemned already. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "water baptized or condemned."

Certainly, water baptism is an important act of obedience. Any one professing to believe/trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation and yet refusing to be water baptized is of questionable sincerity. It's unthinkable that anyone who truly believes the gospel would refuse to be water baptized. I could not wait to get water baptized after my conversion and I cannot think of one Christian that I know who has refused to be water baptized after their conversion. Baptism would have no meaning without Christ’s death, burial and resurrection, but Christ’s death, burial and resurrection would still have meaning, even if there were no baptism. In other words, Christ’s death, burial and resurrection is the substance and baptism is the sign/symbol/picture. Without the substance there would be no sign/symbol/picture.

Baptism put it in it's proper place, subsequent to salvation through faith in Christ as all works must be. (Ephesians 2:8-10) Baptism is for believers, and believers are saved the moment that they place their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. The Bible says we are saved by grace through faith and not by works in general. (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9) This does not remove good works/acts of obedience (including water baptism) from the Christian life, it just puts them in their proper place, subsequent to regeneration and salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

I have no doubt that many will be in God's eternal Kingdom who weren't baptized and many will be rejected who were baptized. Salvation is a matter of the heart, not water baptism.

I believe the number of "nominal" Christians/make believers from various false religions and cults who have been water baptized (but don't truly believe the gospel) and will be rejected will exceed the number of genuine Christians/genuine believers who were unable to receive water baptism after their conversion before death, but will still be in God's eternal Kingdom, yet as you said, salvation is a matter of the heart, not water baptism.

 

[Grailhunter]

So all who can't be baptized are going to Hell?

Are you guys playing dumb or is it not a act

 

[Mr C]

I believed and confessed Jesus with all my heart several years ago on a Saturday night, but was unable to receive water baptism until Sunday morning, yet was still saved on Saturday night prior to receiving water baptism on Sunday morning. Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. (Romans 10:9,10)

Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching.

1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing that Jesus is Lord.

The jailer in (Acts 16:30-34) knew the importance of water baptism that's why he was out in the dark looking for water so he could be immersed into Christ as (Rom.6:3,4) and (Gal.3:27) teaches. (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40)

Salvation is IN CHRIST (2Tim.2:10) (Acts 2:38,47)

One is baptized INTO CHRIST (Gal.3:27) (Rom.6:3-6)


Ac 28:24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

 

[Mr C]

So all who can't be baptized will burn in Hell? Nah!

What do you mean by CAN'T be baptized?

 

[Mr C]

Your argument doesn't prove that water baptism is necessary for salvation, but it shows that you confuse the picture (water baptism) with the reality (Spirit baptism). Again, as Greek scholar AT Robertson explains - "A symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality."

Romans 6:4 Commentary - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

Spirit baptism was only passed on to other INDIVIDUALS by the laying on of the apostles hands according to (Acts 6:6 ; 8:18,19 ; 19:1-6)

What happens when the apostles died? (Zech 13:1,2) (1Cor.13:8-10) (Eph.4:11-15).

Miracles ceased.

 

[mailmandan]

The jailer in (Acts 16:30-34) knew the importance of water baptism that's why he was out in the dark looking for water so he could be immersed into Christ as (Rom.6:3,4) and (Gal.3:27) teaches. (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40)

Salvation is IN CHRIST (2Tim.2:10) (Acts 2:38,47)

One is baptized INTO CHRIST (Gal.3:27) (Rom.6:3-6)

Ac 28:24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

Nobody is saying that water baptism is not important, but to say that water baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation (immersed or condemned) is going beyond what Scripture teaches. *Notice in Acts 16:31, the answer to the question from Acts 16:30, "what must I do to be saved" is "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.." and not "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and get water baptized and you will be saved." Water baptism "followed" believing unto salvation (Acts 16:31-34) just as it did in (Acts 10:43-47). I already addressed (Romans 6:3,4; Galatians 3:27; Acts 2:38 and Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40). You misunderstand being "baptized into Christ" as being water baptized into the body of Christ. You need to go back and read post #406 and #420. Also go back and read post #424.

 

[mailmandan]

Spirit baptism was only passed on to other INDIVIDUALS by the laying on of the apostles hands according to (Acts 6:6 ; 8:18,19 ; 19:1-6)

What happens when the apostles died? (Zech 13:1,2) (1Cor.13:8-10) (Eph.4:11-15).

Miracles ceased.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. Laying on of hands by the apostles in order to receive the Holy Spirit was the exception (Acts 8:16-19; 19:1-6) not the rule. (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17; 15:7-9; Ephesians 1:13)

 

[Tong2020]

Noah was saved by grace only after he done all the Lord commanded him to do. (Gen.6:8,22)

Naaman was cleansed of leprosy only after completing all the prophet told him to do. (2Kings 5)

The Ephesians were saved by grace only when they had done what the Lord required in (Acts 19:1-6) (Mark 16:16)


(Jn 3:3-5) (Gal.3:27) (Rom.6:3-6) (Heb.10:22) (Titus 3:5) (Col.2:12) (Acts 2:38,47 ; 22:16 ; 8:5,12,13,26-40)

What was Noah saved from?
What was Naaman saved from?
What were the Ephesians saved from?

Tong
R0790

 

[Mr C]

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. Laying on of hands by the apostles in order to receive the Holy Spirit was the exception (Acts 8:16-19; 19:1-6) not the rule. (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17; 15:7-9; Ephesians 1:13)

No, (Acts 6:6: : 8:18,19) IS THE RULE for "individuals" to receive the Gifts. (it is the only rule)

Maybe Spirit baptism is not the one baptism (Eph.4:5) speaks about.

(Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 16:30-34)

Ac 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. 39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Here is a recorded example of an "individual" being baptized in water.

 

[Mr C]

What was Noah saved from?
What was Naaman saved from?
What were the Ephesians saved from?

Tong
R0790

I gave you the scriptures I'm sure you can understand it.