Salvation Through Baptism ???

[Mr C]

Simon was a false conversion, as I already explained in post #424 (if you even bothered to read it). Why is it important that it’s an “individual” and not a group of individuals? Multiple Gentiles were baptized with the Holy Spirit in (Acts 10:43-47; 11:16-18)

If Simon was not saved then neither were the Samaritans for Simon done what they did.

Surely if you doctrine is correct you can find me a recorded example of an individual being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Simon was baptized in (Acts 8)

The Ethiopian eunuch was baptized in water in (Acts 8).-note (Jn 3:3-5)

This helps to prove baptism in water is the one baptism of (Eph.4:5).



You have NO EXAMPLE of an INDIVIDUAL being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

You cannot tell me how to obey being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

You cannot tell me how I can know I have been baptized in the Holy Spirit.

You cannot show me a scripture which commands all men to be baptized in the Holy Spirit.


You are going on ASSUMPTIONS.

 

[JunChosen]

Take this Tonto!

I too can cherry pick verses, put them together, and create my own doctrine! But what will they prove?

For example, I can prove through Scripture that there is no God. Does the Bible teach that? Of course not!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Grailhunter]

I too can cherry pick verses, put them together, and create my own doctrine! But what will they prove?

For example, I can prove through Scripture that there is no God. Does the Bible teach that? Of course not!

To God Be The Glory

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?

Matthew 7:21-25
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness. Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; be he that believeth not shall be damned.

Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyer rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of Him.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto unto thee, Except a man be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Galatians 1:8-9
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.

Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.

Act 8:26-40
But an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip saying, “Get up and go south to the road that descends from Jerusalem to Gaza.” (This is a desert road.) So he got up and went; and there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure; and he had come to Jerusalem to worship, and he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah. Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go up and join this chariot.” Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?” And he said, “Well, how could I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. Now the passage of Scripture which he was reading was this: “He was led as a sheep to slaughter; And as a lamb before its shearer is silent, So He does not open His mouth. “In humiliation His judgment was taken away; Who will relate His generation? For His life is removed from the earth.” The eunuch answered Philip and said, “Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself or of someone else?” Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch *said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus.

Acts 10:48
And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

Acts 16:33
And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.

Acts 18:8
Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.

Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 22:12-16
“A certain Ananias, a man who was devout by the standard of the Law, and well spoken of by all the Jews who lived there, came to me, and standing near said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight!’ And at that very time I looked up at him. And he said, ‘The God of our fathers has appointed you to know His will and to see the Righteous One and to hear an utterance from His mouth. For you will be a witness for Him to all men of what you have seen and heard. Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’

John 3:22-23 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. Can you imagine what it would be like to be baptized under the watchful eye of Christ Himself?

Romans 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

 

[Mr C]

Scripture and I say water baptism is not important.

Jesus never baptized anyone.

Paul did but a few.

To God Be The Glory

Did you forget these scriptures?


...while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 ¶ The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us


(Jn 3:3-5,23)

Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

 

[Mr C]

Note the verse explicitly demands that the three thousand were already saved when they were baptized..."who had received his word."

To God Be The Glory

Nice try but I'm not buying it.

They heard a sermon about the Saviour FIRST -

Ac 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


Then they asked

37 ¶ Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?


Then Peter gives the answer to their question.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
47 And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

 

[mailmandan]

If Simon was not saved then neither were the Samaritans for Simon done what they did.

What did Simon do that the Samaritans also did? Simon the sorcerer in Samaria is said to have “believed and was baptized” at the preaching of Philip (Acts 8:13) but later, when Simon offers the apostles money to have their ability to impart the Holy Spirit (verses 18–19), he is rebuked by Peter. Peter answered: "May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. (verses 20-21) Even though we read that Simon "believed," the remainder of the verse hints at the true object of his belief: "the miracles and signs which were done." No saving belief in Christ.

Surely if you doctrine is correct you can find me a recorded example of an individual being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

ALL believers have been baptized in/with the Holy Spirit. Prior to Pentecost, we read in Matthew 3:11 - "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." Also, in Acts 1:5, we read - "for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

After Pentecost, in referring back to the event that took place in Acts 10:43-47, in Acts 11:16-18, we read - Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, 'John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."

*In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we read - For by one Spirit we were ALL baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. *Also see "drink" in John 4:10,14; 7:37-39.

Simon was baptized in (Acts 8)

So? Many false converts have been water baptized. I know multiple people who had been water baptized in various false religions and cults, including Roman Catholicism, Mormonism, Campbellism etc... but were not saved at the time they first received water baptism because they did not truly believe the gospel. I was previously one of them.

The Ethiopian eunuch was baptized in water in (Acts 8).-note (Jn 3:3-5)

The Ethiopian eunuch was baptized after his profession of faith that "Jesus Christ is the Son of God." *Also see John 20:31.

This helps to prove baptism in water is the one baptism of (Eph.4:5).

You proved absolutely nothing to me. I proved otherwise in post #442.

You have NO EXAMPLE of an INDIVIDUAL being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

I have examples that all believers receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

You cannot tell me how to obey being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

How would we obey being baptized in the Holy Spirit when we do not baptize ourselves in the Holy Spirit? We obey by choosing to believe the gospel and then we receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit. (Acts 11:17; Ephesians 1:13; Romans 1:16; 10:16)

You cannot tell me how I can know I have been baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:16 - The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.

You cannot show me a scripture which commands all men to be baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Why would there be such a scripture when we do not baptize ourselves in the Holy Spirit? Scripture commands us to believe the gospel. The Spirit accomplishes Spirit baptism.

You are going on ASSUMPTIONS.

That statement is the epitome of irony. You remain thoroughly indoctrinated and confused.

 

[mailmandan]

Note the verse explicitly demands that the three thousand were already saved when they were baptized..."who had received his word."

To God Be The Glory

Amen! Those who gladly received His word (through repentance/faith) were “afterwards” baptized and about 3,000 souls were added that day. (Acts 2:41) *Repentance and faith are two sides to the same coin. (Acts 20:21)

In Acts 4:4, we read - However, many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.

In Acts 5:14, we read - And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women.

I already explained this in post #424, along with a thorough explanation of Acts 2:38, but I don’t think Grailhunter is listening/does not have ears to hear.

 

[kcnalp]

So all who can't get baptized will burn in Hell?

Hmm, no takers.

 

[Joseph77]

Hmm, no takers.

Whoever trusts Jesus (as written), has life;
whoever trusts not Jesus (as written), has not life.

 

[JunChosen]

This helps to prove baptism in water is the one baptism of (Eph.4:5).

Water baptism has no spiritual significance in and of itself, but the washing of regeneration found in Titus 3:5:

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost."

You live or fall on this verse.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Grailhunter]

Water baptism has no spiritual significance in and of itself, but the washing of regeneration found in Titus 3:5:

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost."

You live or fall on this verse.

To God Be The Glory

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?

Matthew 7:21-25
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness. Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; be he that believeth not shall be damned.

Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyer rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of Him.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto unto thee, Except a man be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Galatians 1:8-9
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.

Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.

Act 8:26-40
But an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip saying, “Get up and go south to the road that descends from Jerusalem to Gaza.” (This is a desert road.) So he got up and went; and there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure; and he had come to Jerusalem to worship, and he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah. Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go up and join this chariot.” Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?” And he said, “Well, how could I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. Now the passage of Scripture which he was reading was this: “He was led as a sheep to slaughter; And as a lamb before its shearer is silent, So He does not open His mouth. “In humiliation His judgment was taken away; Who will relate His generation? For His life is removed from the earth.” The eunuch answered Philip and said, “Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself or of someone else?” Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch *said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus.

Acts 10:48
And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

Acts 16:33
And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.

Acts 18:8
Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.

Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 22:12-16
“A certain Ananias, a man who was devout by the standard of the Law, and well spoken of by all the Jews who lived there, came to me, and standing near said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight!’ And at that very time I looked up at him. And he said, ‘The God of our fathers has appointed you to know His will and to see the Righteous One and to hear an utterance from His mouth. For you will be a witness for Him to all men of what you have seen and heard. Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’

John 3:22-23 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. Can you imagine what it would be like to be baptized under the watchful eye of Christ Himself?

Romans 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

 

[JunChosen]

Hmm, no takers.

Read Post #470

 

[Joseph77]

Read the Bible.

 

[Mr C]

What did Simon do that the Samaritans also did? Simon the sorcerer in Samaria is said to have “believed and was baptized” at the preaching of Philip (Acts 8:13) but later, when Simon offers the apostles money to have their ability to impart the Holy Spirit (verses 18–19), he is rebuked by Peter. Peter answered: "May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. (verses 20-21) Even though we read that Simon "believed," the remainder of the verse hints at the true object of his belief: "the miracles and signs which were done." No saving belief in Christ.

ALL believers have been baptized in/with the Holy Spirit. Prior to Pentecost, we read in Matthew 3:11 - "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." Also, in Acts 1:5, we read - "for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

After Pentecost, in referring back to the event that took place in Acts 10:43-47, in Acts 11:16-18, we read - Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, 'John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."

*In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we read - For by one Spirit we were ALL baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. *Also see "drink" in John 4:10,14; 7:37-39.

So? Many false converts have been water baptized. I know multiple people who had been water baptized in various false religions and cults, including Roman Catholicism, Mormonism, Campbellism etc... but were not saved at the time they first received water baptism because they did not truly believe the gospel. I was previously one of them.

The Ethiopian eunuch was baptized after his profession of faith that "Jesus Christ is the Son of God." *Also see John 20:31.

You proved absolutely nothing to me. I proved otherwise in post #442.

I have examples that all believers receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

How would we obey being baptized in the Holy Spirit when we do not baptize ourselves in the Holy Spirit? We obey by choosing to believe the gospel and then we receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit. (Acts 11:17; Ephesians 1:13; Romans 1:16; 10:16)

Romans 8:16 - The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.

Why would there be such a scripture when we do not baptize ourselves in the Holy Spirit? Scripture commands us to believe the gospel. The Spirit accomplishes Spirit baptism.

That statement is the epitome of irony. You remain thoroughly indoctrinated and confused.

Your nickname shall be EISEGESIS.

Your doing alot of heavy lifting.

Didn't anyone tell you the power is in the word?

Lu 4:32 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power.

 

[mailmandan]

Your nickname shall be EISEGESIS.

Your doing alot of heavy lifting.

Didn't anyone tell you the power is in the word?

Lu 4:32 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power.

EISEGESIS is actually a better nickname for YOU. A better nickname for me would be HERMENEUTICS, since I properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. All you do is isolate your pet verses on baptism, build doctrine on them, then try to force the rest of Scripture to "conform" to your biased doctrine. That's called "flawed" hermeneutics. I already know the power is in the word (John 15:3) and not in the water.

Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) Let me know when you are ready to repent and believe the gospel.

 

[Candidus]

Water baptism has no spiritual significance in and of itself, but the washing of regeneration found in Titus 3:5:

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost."

You live or fall on this verse.

To God Be The Glory

I don't know how much clearer the Holy Spirit could have done answering the question!

God would have given credit to the work of Baptism and the magic of Water if that is what He meant!

 

[Candidus]

If Simon was not saved then neither were the Samaritans for Simon done what they did.

Surely if you doctrine is correct you can find me a recorded example of an individual being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Simon was baptized in (Acts 8)

The Ethiopian eunuch was baptized in water in (Acts 8).-note (Jn 3:3-5)

This helps to prove baptism in water is the one baptism of (Eph.4:5).



You have NO EXAMPLE of an INDIVIDUAL being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

You cannot tell me how to obey being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

You cannot tell me how I can know I have been baptized in the Holy Spirit.

You cannot show me a scripture which commands all men to be baptized in the Holy Spirit.


You are going on ASSUMPTIONS.

Exactly! No one is ever baptized "in" the Holy Spirit, but "with" the Holy Spirit! You cannot show me anywhere where the symbolism does not match the substance! The Symbol is ALWAYS coming upon, sprinkling or pouring! The Substance is the Holy Spirit.

 

[Mr C]

Surely if your doctrine is correct you can find me a recorded example of an individual being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Simon was baptized in (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40)

The Ethiopian eunuch was baptized in water in (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40) - note (Jn 3:3-5,23)

This helps to prove baptism in water is the one baptism of (Eph.4:5).



You have NO EXAMPLE of an INDIVIDUAL being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

You cannot tell me how to obey being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

You cannot tell me how I can know I have been baptized in the Holy Spirit.

You cannot show me a scripture which commands all men to be baptized in the Holy Spirit.


You are going on ASSUMPTIONS.

 

[Mr C]

In the case of SIMON'S CONVERSION in (Acts 8) he done exactly what the Samaritans done in (Acts 8:5,12). The Samaritans were baptized in water for the remission of sins. Simon obeys the gospel in vs 13. He was baptized in water for the remission of sins as those in (Acts 2:38,47). So Simon became a christian as did the Samaritans and to draw any other conclusion is to discount the word of God (Deut.4:2) (1Cor.4:6).

The second law of pardon found in (1Jn 1:9) is only for Christians. Peter told Simon (now a christian) to follow this 2nd Law of Pardon.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Ac 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.


An inspired man (Peter) would never tell someone who was not a christian to obey the 2nd Law of Pardon.

WHY?

B/c God hears not sinners (Jn 9:31)

Joh 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners:

 

[Grailhunter]

Surely if your doctrine is correct you can find me a recorded example of an individual being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Simon was baptized in (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40)

The Ethiopian eunuch was baptized in water in (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40) - note (Jn 3:3-5,23)

This helps to prove baptism in water is the one baptism of (Eph.4:5).



You have NO EXAMPLE of an INDIVIDUAL being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

You cannot tell me how to obey being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

You cannot tell me how I can know I have been baptized in the Holy Spirit.

You cannot show me a scripture which commands all men to be baptized in the Holy Spirit.


You are going on ASSUMPTIONS.

The fun part is discussing all the elements and affects.
So many different beliefs.