Salvation Through Baptism ???

[Tong2020]

Thank you.

According to scripture (not your theory highlighted in blue) the division amongst men occurred because some men were teaching a different doctrine then what the Apostles taught. They did not hold to the sound doctrine that was taught by word of mouth, in the written letter or by tradition. Hence false doctrines taught by false teachers crept into the Christian community. As we know some men twist Scripture to their own destruction.

I think I need not quote every scripture in this regard.

So how do YOU identify the men who are false teachers who twist Scripture to their own destruction?

Thank you for your time....Mary

You said "the division amongst men occurred because some men were teaching a different doctrine then what the Apostles taught." That is not at all different from what I said which you highlighted in blue in my post #726. For to make up a different doctrine, I believe, is certainly a product of selfish pride. By it, whether they admit it or not, they are putting themselves above the apostles, as if they knew better than the chosen witnesses and apostles of the Lord to whom the truth was given and revealed.

You asked "So how do YOU identify the men who are false teachers who twist Scripture to their own destruction?"

According to apostle John, we test the spirits whether they are of God. Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. Such is the spirit of the Antichrist.

Apostle Peter tells a lot concerning false teachers. That they will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord. By covetousness they will exploit the Christian with deceptive words. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries. They speak evil of the things they do not understand. They carouse in their own deceptions while they feast with the Christians, having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices. They have forsaken the right way and gone astray. They are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest. When they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness. They promise liberty, but they themselves are slaves of corruption.

According to Matthew, they are those who come in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. They will be known by their fruits which are evil and bad.

Tong
R0833

 

[kcnalp]

Again can you read?
If you believe and are not baptized you will be able to present your case before Christ on Judgement Day. He will decide heaven or hell.
It does not matter if you died a second after you believed.
If you were on a desert island.
Or just put baptism off.
Christ is the judge.
Pull it all together and see if you can read and understand.

You can't answer the question because you don't know, but you continue to preach salvation by mandatory water baptism.

 

[mailmandan]

That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not hard to understand. It’s just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It’s a shame that human pride will not allow works-salvationists to trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

 

[Grailhunter]

You can't answer the question because you don't know, but you continue to preach salvation by mandatory water baptism.

I just answered the question. Christ is the final judge.

If you are having troubles with words like "if" "are" "will" "on" "a" "an" you can look them up in the dictionary. For the big words get someone to help you.

 

[Mr C]

What is water baptism if one does not believe? Of no matter, is empty and void, useless, and symbolizes no spiritual reality, but will only be nothing but getting immersed in water or getting a full body wash by immersion. It then only is, to the one baptized, a make believe of whatever he believes water baptism accomplishes.

What is repentance if one does not believe? Senseless. Hypocrisy.

Tong
R0832

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[Mr C]

Tong2020 said:
If that is the case for you, then by all means, get yourself baptized for you to be saved. And perhaps, you go about preaching the gospel of baptism, that baptism saves.

But wait, should you not first believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ?


That would be abnormal.

The truth is, an unbeliever in the gospel of Jesus Christ does not get to be baptized. That is something I think that no genuinely born again Christian would deny and argue against.

You wanted for us to look into the matter of calling on the name of the Lord. Well, let's do that. Consider:

Romans 10: 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

That's plain and clear enough.

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

That even is very plain and very clear. Faith is it, not anything else, not even water baptism. In other words, an unbeliever obviously will not call on God whom he does not believe in. That is very basic and a sense so common to man. For even the idolater calls on to his god because he believes in it. There are many gods (false), yet he does not call on all of them, but only calls on the one he believes in.

Tong
R0821

People did not even know about being baptized in the name of Jesus in (Act 19:1-6).

Yet they were baptized (in water) according to the gospel (Mark 16:15,16) (Acts 2:38,47 ; 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 16:15 ; 16:30-34) (Col.2:12) (Titus 3:5) (Heb.10:22) (Rom.6:3-18) (Gal.3:27) (Jn 3:3-5,23)

 

[Mr C]

Mk 16 He that believeth not shall be damned. Not he that is not baptized shall be damned. That would have been the perfect place to say so!



Amen! Emphasis always on repent or believe.

Acts 3:19 (NKJV)
19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, ...

No mention of water baptism.



You omitted the main part.

Acts 22:16
16 Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'

Baptism in water is mentioned in the NT.

Believe + Baptism = Saved (Mark 16:15,16) (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 16:30-34 ; 22:16)

According to the scriptures above the gospel which SAVES includes BAPTISM (in water).

We must go by EVERY WORD OF THE LORD (Mt. 4:4).

 

[Tong2020]

People did not even know about being baptized in the name of Jesus in (Act 19:1-6).

And your response here says nothing that refutes any of what I said in my post #727. That settles it then regarding the issue on calling on the name of the Lord.

Now on with what you say here.

Acts 19:1 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

Those involved are disciples. They are said to have believed. May I know what you think is it that they believed?

Tong
R0835

 

[Marymog]

You said "the division amongst men occurred because some men were teaching a different doctrine then what the Apostles taught." That is not at all different from what I said which you highlighted in blue in my post #726. For to make up a different doctrine, I believe, is certainly a product of selfish pride. By it, whether they admit it or not, they are putting themselves above the apostles, as if they knew better than the chosen witnesses and apostles of the Lord to whom the truth was given and revealed.

You asked "So how do YOU identify the men who are false teachers who twist Scripture to their own destruction?"

According to apostle John, we test the spirits whether they are of God. Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. Such is the spirit of the Antichrist.

Apostle Peter tells a lot concerning false teachers. That they will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord. By covetousness they will exploit the Christian with deceptive words. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries. They speak evil of the things they do not understand. They carouse in their own deceptions while they feast with the Christians, having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices. They have forsaken the right way and gone astray. They are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest. When they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness. They promise liberty, but they themselves are slaves of corruption.

According to Matthew, they are those who come in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. They will be known by their fruits which are evil and bad.

Tong
R0833

Hi Tong,

Your statement that was highlighted in blue is this: And this division, more often than not, was because of selfish pride, wanting to be better off than others, in that sense, exalting themselves over another.

I think I get the gist of what you are saying when you use the words "selfish pride". However, what does Scripture say? It says they taught opposite because they considered themselves equal with the Apostles in the things they boasted about. Those men were false apostles. Workers masquerading as apostles of Christ. (2 Corinthians 11:12-13) They are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. (1 Timothy 6)

Bible Study Mary

 

[Marymog]

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith, but he has no resulting evidential works (to substantiate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

*So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

You need to remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

I agree with you (weird, huh)....James does not teach that we are saved by works. We are saved

By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)?
By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)?
By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)?
By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)?
By declaring with our mouths (Lu 12:8; Rom 10:9)?
By coming to a knowledge of the Truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)?
By maintaining the faith (Col 1:22-23; Mt 24:13)?
By works (John 5:28-29; Rom 2:6, 7; James 2:24)?
By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)?
By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)?
By His righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)?
By His cross (Eph 2:16; Col 2:14)?

Bible Study Mary

 

[mailmandan]

I agree with you (weird, huh)....James does not teach that we are saved by works. We are saved

By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)?
By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)?
By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)?
By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)?
By declaring with our mouths (Lu 12:8; Rom 10:9)?
By coming to a knowledge of the Truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)?
By maintaining the faith (Col 1:22-23; Mt 24:13)?
By works (John 5:28-29; Rom 2:6, 7; James 2:24)?
By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)?
By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)?
By His righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)?
By His cross (Eph 2:16; Col 2:14)?

Bible Study Mary

You just contradicted yourself. Your list included works.

 

[Joseph77]

What saves a breathing body from death ?
According to the Scripture is a once alive person , whose body now is laying on the sidewalk without any breathing, alive ?
No. With or without faith, it is not alive .....

Like a body requiring the atmosphere and that is without breath, (no breath, no air going into lungs , no oxygen getting to anyplace in the body...). is dead... (Scripture says in truth, always) ....

so also faith without works is dead.

 

[Joseph77]

How many dead bodiesxxxxxx persons on earth claim to be alive ? (multitudes!)

 

[Mr C]

And your response here says nothing that refutes any of what I said in my post #727. That settles it then regarding the issue on calling on the name of the Lord.

Now on with what you say here.

Acts 19:1 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

Those involved are disciples. They are said to have believed. May I know what you think is it that they believed?

Tong
R0835

The believed first in -

1. In Johns baptism IN WATER FOR THE REMISSION OD SINS. (Jn 3:3-5,23)(Mark 1:4)

But Paul explains to them Johns baptism was outdated and no longer in affect.

Paul explains to them the NT Baptism (the gospel) as we see is (Mark 16:15,16) (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 10:48 ; 16:15 ; 22:16).

They are not taught about HS baptism.

Notice the Gifts were passed on to these people BY THE LAYING ON OF HANDS (NOT BAPTISM). (Acts 6:6 ; 8:18,19)

 

[Mr C]

I gave my heart to the Lord weeks before I knew I was supposed to be baptized. I was saved! The Blood of Jesus washed away my sins!

Believe + Baptism = Saved (Mark 16;16)

Repent + Be Converted = Blot Out Sins (Acts 3:19)

Repent + Baptism = Remission of Sins (Acts 2:38)

Arise + Be Baptized = Wash Away Sins (Acts 22:16)

Preaching Christ includes teaching water baptism (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 16:30-34)

 

[JunChosen]

@Bible Study Mary, said:

By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)?

First, let me emphasize that the word “believe” connotes a “work” that we do. John 3:16 is the most quoted verse in the world yet the least understood. I’ll make short this thread, the word “whosoever” is synonymous only to all believers it is they that will believe only.

Acts 16:31:...”believe on the Lord Jesus Christ” but the devils/demons also believe. So what? They are not saved!

By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)?

Only in the name of Jesus can we repent and be baptized.

2 Peter 3:9….”Not willing that any should perish” and “all should come to repentance.” Imagine what would happen if this was true? No one can be put into hell!

By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)?

The word “water” is a synonym for the Gospel. Read and note John 4:10-11, however; the answer is found in John 7:38.

1 Peter 3:21….The term “like manner” (denotes the flood). The word “baptism” that saves save us is “the washing of regeneration” found in Titus 3:5!

I have expounded on the first three of twelve topics you’ve listed. Now it is your turn to expound on the rest and we will see if you “got it” right

To God Be The Glory

 

[Grailhunter]

@Bible Study Mary, said:

By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)?

First, let me emphasize that the word “believe” connotes a “work” that we do. John 3:16 is the most quoted verse in the world yet the least understood. I’ll make short this thread, the word “whosoever” is synonymous only to all believers it is they that will believe only.

Acts 16:31:...”believe on the Lord Jesus Christ” but the devils/demons also believe. So what? They are not saved!

By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)?

Only in the name of Jesus can we repent and be baptized.

2 Peter 3:9….”Not willing that any should perish” and “all should come to repentance.” Imagine what would happen if this was true? No one can be put into hell!

By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)?

The word “water” is a synonym for the Gospel. Read and note John 4:10-11, however; the answer is found in John 7:38.

1 Peter 3:21….The term “like manner” (denotes the flood). The word “baptism” that saves save us is “the washing of regeneration” found in Titus 3:5!

I have expounded on the first three of twelve topics you’ve listed. Now it is your turn to expound on the rest and we will see if you “got it” right

To God Be The Glory

There ya go Mary, Calvinist gibberish.
It is all a discretion because he worships a demon god that damns babies before they are born, so Satan will always have a Quota.
According to him his god has denied free-will from humanity.
That reality is a puppet show where we do nothing of our own will.
If they rape, murder, plunder they believe god predestined it.
Faith, love, compassion, prayer, grace, forgiveness, kindness, church attendance and good deeds does not matter or show character or true faith because they are all puppets on strings, every movement and thought being forced upon them, dummies of the satanic puppet master.
You will find that Judgment Day does not matter to them because they believe their god judged everyone good or evil before creation.

 

[kcnalp]

I just answered the question. Christ is the final judge.

If you are having troubles with words like "if" "are" "will" "on" "a" "an" you can look them up in the dictionary. For the big words get someone to help you.

Thanks for admitting that you don't know that water baptism is mandatory for Christian salvation!

 

[kcnalp]

Baptism in water is mentioned in the NT.

Believe + Baptism = Saved (Mark 16:15,16) (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 16:30-34 ; 22:16)

According to the scriptures above the gospel which SAVES includes BAPTISM (in water).

We must go by EVERY WORD OF THE LORD (Mt. 4:4).

You obey God perfectly? You'd better, because you are going to be judged the way you are judging others.

 

[kcnalp]

so also faith without works is dead.

Because true Christian Faith produces works of righteousness.