CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Lying is bearing false witness against someone to condemn them. You do that everyday.
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Lying is bearing false witness against someone to condemn them. You do that everyday.
Again you accuse but you show no quotes, no proof.
Do you think that just because you can write a false accusation, that this is proof?
Try again.
Be honest.
Dont just attack because you can't prove your point.
If that was true, you'd log out, and never come back to a forum.
As you are the false teacher, charismatic.
You would instead get rid of the inner voices that lead you into the dark and cause you to deny Grace.
If you were truly a teacher of the Cross, you would not come to a Christian forum and try to teach real Christians that Jesus's Blood is only as good as they are......
You on more then one occasion have tried to deny that God's Grace is Eternal, and is only as lasting as a person's faith or behavior.
You have the carnal idea that "apostasy" or any decision a person can make, can stop what only God can Do.
You are living in the darkness of wrong believing how many years now?
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
How many times have you told me what I believe, only to have me tell you I believe the opposite?
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
What does this mean? Are they still saved?
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
What you believe is what you teach.
You confuse this with that you say you believe.
you will say that "there is no sin in Christ" then accuse me of being a gnostic when i teach that there is no sin in Christ.
You just tried to prove that "apostasy" is able to end God's Blood Atonement.
So, that is a charismatic trying to find a way to teach a forum filled with readers, YOUR idea that salvation is not eternal, but rather, its only sustainable by the PERSON, who does not commit whatever you have decided can cause them to lose their salvation.
So, once again, you are just a typical lifelong charismatic that wants to chop down The Cross and replace it with some kind of self effort, legalism.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Paul preaching to Hebrews.
The Epistle : to the Hebrews.
Paul does it again in Acts 28, the last 10 verses.
SAME HEBREWS, SAME UNBELIEVING JEWS..
In both cases they "trod underfoot the blood of Jesus", "Crucifying Him afresh".
So, how do you crucify Jesus, AFRESH, as in.....if He is right in front of you?
How?
The same way their elders did.......THEY REJECTED THEIR MESSIAH and hung Him up on the Nails.
See, it was not the Romans, it was their SIN OF UNBELIEF that Crucified Jesus TO THAT CROSS.
THAT IS HOW YOU "WILLFULLY SIN".
That is what these Unbelieving JEWS were doing in your verses, after Paul had let them taste the Heavenly GIFT.
And what is that gift, Ms Gift Chaser?
Its the "signs of an Apostle"....>Paul showed them SIGNS. = the heavenly GIFT.
'"""Signs are for the JEWS""""....... Paul is an Apostle. He is showing them SIGNS,.
Signs are from HEAVEN.
All GIFTS come down from HEAVEN, including the 9 spiritual gifts and also the "Signs of an APOSTLE".
Paul is preaching the Cross to these Hebrews, and they are denying their Messiah, same as their elders did, and that is how you CRUCIFY CHRIST AGAIN......you REJECT HIM..."Afresh"...
Christ REJECTION.... is to NAIL JESUS UP on the NAILS OF UNBELIEF.
Understand yet?
That is how you "trod underfood the Blood"..... that is how you "willfully sin" a sin that can't be FORGIVEN,.... as if you deny the Sacrifice of Jesus, then "there is no more sacrifice available to you for your SIN"< CHRIST REJECTOR..... as Paul is telling these hateful Christ Rejecting HEBREWS.
You need to read this......a few times..
Paul preaching to Hebrews.
The Epistle : to the Hebrews.
Paul does it again in Acts 28, the last 10 verses.
SAME HEBREWS, SAME UNBELIEVING JEWS..
In both cases they "trod underfoot the blood of Jesus", "Crucifying Him afresh".
So, how do you crucify Jesus, AFRESH, as in.....if He is right in front of you?
How?
The same way their elders did.......THEY REJECTED THEIR MESSIAH and hung Him up on the Nails.
See, it was not the Romans, it was their SIN OF UNBELIEF that Crucified Jesus TO THAT CROSS.
THAT IS HOW YOU "WILLFULLY SIN".
That is what these Unbelieving JEWS were doing in your verses, after Paul had let them taste the Heavenly GIFT.
And what is that gift, Ms Gift Chaser?
Its the "signs of an Apostle"....>Paul showed them SIGNS. = the heavenly GIFT.
'"""Signs are for the JEWS""""....... Paul is an Apostle. He is showing them SIGNS,.
Signs are from HEAVEN.
All GIFTS come down from HEAVEN, including the 9 spiritual gifts and also the "Signs of an APOSTLE".
Paul is preaching the Cross to these Hebrews, and they are denying their Messiah, same as their elders did, and that is how you CRUCIFY CHRIST AGAIN......you REJECT HIM..."Afresh"...
Christ REJECTION.... is to NAIL JESUS UP on the NAILS OF UNBELIEF.
Understand yet?
That is how you "trod underfood the Blood"..... that is how you "willfully sin" a sin that can't be FORGIVEN,.... as if you deny the Sacrifice of Jesus, then "there is no more sacrifice available to you for your SIN"< CHRIST REJECTOR..... as Paul is telling these hateful Christ Rejecting HEBREWS.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
You got Jews right, but the passage definitely indicates that these had been BELIEVING Jews. Try again. This time try to understand what you are reading. Hint: Unbelieving Jews do not have the Spirit, nor the gifts of the Spirit - the powers of the age to come.
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CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Were they born again?
This is your issue, and this question will not be answered this way.
Each of these things . . . none of them specifically talk about rebirth, believers, brothers,
First, let's not look at just one small part,
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
Cutting to the chase, the key to understanding the passage is in vs 9, these things are not things that accompany salvation. The writer things differently about those he's writing to.
Even so, all of these were met in those who received from Jesus' ministry on the earth. Before you discount this, let me ask you, what is the meaning of saying, "the powers of the age to come." The age to come? Or the current age? It's the age to come.
What powers would you think are more likely to be called "of the age to come", the gifts given to Christians in the current time? Or the signs and wonders performed by Jesus to show Him to the people?
But this passage doesn't come out and say that those who are God's children can become lost again. And if you intepret it as saying that, you run smack into those passages that tell us that doesn't happen.
Much love!
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CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
One is born again when they receive the Holy Spirit. You know that. This person had the Holy Spirit. The powers of the age to come is in heaven. The Gifts of the Holy Spirit now only give us partial knowledge. But then we shall know God, even as God knows us now.
You say: "But this passage doesn't come out and say that those who are God's children can become lost again. And if you interpret it as saying that, you run smack into those passages that tell us that doesn't happen."
Really? Read it again.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Is that born again person still saved according to what you see in this passage, and be honest? This is the reason Peter said it would have been better for him to have not believed, than to reject Christ afterwards. Why? Because someone who had never believed, could still come to repentance. But this person in Hebrews and Peter's epistle had believed, THEN committed the sin of apostasy. We are not talking about a willful sin of the flesh, but belief in Christ altogether. They sinned against the Holy Spirit in them; this is the unpardonable sin. All other willful sins can be forgiven, except this one. An unsaved person cannot commit that sin, because they can repent and be saved. But one who commits the unpardonable sin, can never repent again.
They lost their place on the path to salvation. That is what you don't understand. You think they were already saved, but in reality, we are not saved until after we have endured to the end without turning to another god. That is why it is possible to lose our way and go back to perdition. And Paul gives words of encouragement to those who do not sin willfully, as he did in Hebrews 6:9 that you highlighted. But that doesn't mean it is impossible because of free will. He says, "39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition (those who commit apostasy) but of those who believe to the saving of the soul... See they are on a path. The finish line is eternal life.
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I don't deny indwelling sin.
If I am completely cleansed of indwelling sin, I would not know myself (Job 9:21) and therefore would not accurately be able to tell whether or not I have indwelling sin. If I were to deny indwelling sin, then the obvious sin of self-deception would be present in me (1 John 1:8). So, if I were to be truly free of indwelling sin, I would never proclaim that it is the case. Because there is always the possibility that there is indwelling sin that I am unaware of; and so if I am honest I will consider that possibility and never proclaim that I am completely free of indwelling sin. While I am not discounting the possibility that anyone can be free of indwelling sin.
I understand that @CharismaticLady has me on Ignore, but I feel the need to respond to this.
Jhn 5:24, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Here is given an absolute promise that if anyone hears Jesus' word, and believes on Him who sent Him, the same shall not come into condemnation but has passed from death unto everlasting life. It is clear from the passage that this happens at the moment of first faith.
And therefore, we are saved at the moment of first faith; we do not have to wait until we have endured unto the end.
While if our faith is not genuine, it will not endure to the end and therefore, our not enduring would then be the evidence that our faith was not genuine. But if faith is genuine, everlasting life begins at the moment of first faith; at least, this is what I find the passage at hand to be saying.
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I believe that the phrase was first coined by Charles Stanley when he was teaching on the principle of 1 John 1:8.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
No it was coined by Paul
Rom 7:17
So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which indwells me.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
1 John 1:8 and Romans 7:17 are both speaking of BEFORE repentance and coming to Christ. You two may already know that, just throwing in my 2 cents.
Thank you, that helps.
Indwelling sin cannot sin if it is rendered dead.
What would happen if we stuck to Scriptural terms?
The problem I have when discussing things in this detail using non-Scriptural terminology, is, what do they mean exactly? Using the Biblical terms helps us to stay with the Biblical understandings, for instance.
And even using Biblical terminology doesn't always keep us safe, we need to be clear how we use it. For instance Body and Flesh are used for the same thing, our natural life in this world as one born in the biological line from Adam, that is, our material participation in Humanity, our body, or flesh. Many have come to use "flesh" as something different from our body, which results in erroneous understandings sometimes.
Regarding 1 John 1, unless we realize that John is talking about the regenerate and the non-regenerate, and how we receive our reconciliation, being forgiven and cleansed, then it will result in idea that conflict with other passages.
But the correct understandings bring harmony within them all.
Much love!
We keep going in circles, I keep thinking at the end of it all we think the same things.
Indwelling sin . . . the old man of flesh, who is the sinner, who is the person we were before we were born again, the corrupt body we live in, That's the closest I come to "indwelling sin". Sin dwells in my flesh body. I also dwell in my flesh body, but I don't dwell in sin, and sin does not dwell in me.
I hope that clarifies!
Much love!
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