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Featured Grace vs Legalism

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Behold, Jul 31, 2020.

  1. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    -
    The reality is........The Blood of Christ has already cleansed our Sin.....all of it.....>Tomorrow's included.
    If you don't understand this, and you have been falsely taught that your sin till the Cross is forgiven, and you then get God to take care of the new ones, by repenting, ... = you have been mislead and are practicing a waste of your time.

    If you'll take your NT and turn to Colossians 2:13 AND THEN Romans 4:8, you will find an amazing discovery that, if you will believe it, will transform your Life in Christ.

    Colossians 2:13 ...Paul teaches you that ALL your sin is gone, forgiven, remitted, redeemed, by Christ on the Cross.
    Roman 4:8 Paul then confirms that God does not ever again, hold you accountable for your sin, in eternity.
    He can't, as all your sin, ALL OF IT, Paul just told you is taken care of by Jesus on the Cross as the Blood Atonement.
    So, your sin is gone, and when you are confessing and repenting of what is not being charged to you, you are wasting your Christian Life.
    God does not re-clean you, every time you mess up and tell Him you are sorry.
    He has already CLEANED you with the Blood of Jesus, 2000 yrs ago.
    Now, when you can SEE THIS, you have taken your first real steps inside the Grace of God, as Right Believing.

    Romans 5:20 "Where SIN abounds...Grace moreso Abounds".... = means....when you sin, (works of the Flesh ) after you are saved, the Blood Atonement has already paid for that one ALSO.... It means that when you sin a year from now, on a Monday morning, just before you come here to argue about OSAS, and you sin again (works of the Flesh)....THE CROSS has already taken care of that one also.
    Realize the revelation that something that happened 2000+ years ago on a CROSS, is STILL your Salvation 20 yrs from NOW !
    Saint, if God didnt take care of all your sin when you were saved, you'd be hell bound the same day you were born again.
    You can't save yourself, and you can't keep yourself CLEAN.
    You have to TRUST IN CHRIST at some point, with real Faith, so that your walk of faith is inside the Grace of God, trusting in CHRIST ALONE to KEEP YOU SAVED.
    Until you can see this, and start to exist there in your MIND, then you will live outside the understanding of the Grace of God and continue to exist as a confessing repenting Discipleship FAILURE.

    If a Legalist-Heretic.... could actually comprehend that you can't out-sin the BLOOD of CHRIST, that this blood has actively and permanently SOLVED your "sin" issue, then what a happy Christian they would be, as then they could actually Trust Christ totally., and not just partly.
    This is why Jesus died for you. Its what He's doing on the Cross. He is Paying for (cleansing) our sin, from us, by dying FOR IT ALL.
    And He DID.

    Amazing how many people who claim to be Christians can't even begin to comprehend SALVATION.
    Legalists don't understand that the CROSS is a completed work (Blood Atonement), so, they reach into the bible with eyes closed and spiritual mind locked.... and never care to learn or realize that not every verse is aimed at a born again believer.

    Now, for the sake of those of you who have not been taught anything about your NT,.... Scriptures in the NT, and OT< are sometimes literal, sometimes symbolic, and sometimes allegorical....in meaning.
    For example, "all who call on the name of Jesus, shall be SAVED"...is literal.
    But, "take this cup, as its the blood of the New Covenant".. this can't be LITERAL, as Jesus's Blood is still in HIS BODY, when He's drinking the cup.

    See it? ?

    A legalist does not understand that "where there is no law, there is no transgression".....as "Christ has ABOLISHED THE LAW" is in the NT, reader. Ephesians 2:15
    A legalist, reads Romans 4:8, where they are told that God does not hold them accountable, for sin...(impute)(charge).... and they just foolishly ignore this and run back to Hebrews, a book-letter not written to the CHURCH, but to UNSAVED JEWS..."HEBREWS"... and then they get lost in it and stay lost in it.

    Ask why LEGALIST,.. Ask WHY does God not hold you accountable, in Eternity, for your sin that you do tomorrow and next week.

    A.) Because God already held Jesus accountable on the CROSS for them ALL.
    Understand?.... as this is so so important for you to understand.

    A Legalist will take a verse out of Matthew, given before Jesus was on the Cross, that is not NT doctrine for the Blood Bought Redeemed Church, and use this verse out of context to prove to themselves they can "lose it"=(Their Salvation)
    A Legalist thinks they are in Christ, then fall out of Christ when they sin, and if they confess = do penance or whatever other deeds they can come up with, they get back INTO Christ.
    However, Christ has contradicted you, as He said "I will never leave you or forsake you"...so, "Christ in you, the hope of Glory", is a fact, that you need to start believing.

    A Legalist actually believes they are saved untill they sin, then confess, and are saved again, ... as if Salvation is a type of Yo-Yo, of sinning confessing, sinning confessing, sinning confessing.....up down, up down in Christ out of Christ, in Christ, out of Christ.,. kinda crazy, isn't it?
    And all of this confusion and chaos is not only the misunderstanding the Blood Atonement, its also not giving FULL Credit DUE to the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.... and that is the REAL issue, for the Legalist - Heretic.
    Don't be that person.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
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  2. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    @Behold just wondering what church you are from?
     
  3. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I would mention something as a question for you, @Behold...

    In 1 John 3:6 it says that the one who abideth in Christ "sinneth not."

    So, if I therefore commit a sin, have I not ceased to abide in Christ?

    This would indicate that in some sense, I go out of Christ when I sin and enter back into Him when I confess and repent.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that my position changes; for the Father looks down on me and sees the shed blood of Christ when He looks at me.

    But as concerning relationship / koinoneia fellowship / connectedness to God, I think that if we sin, we have already ceased to abide in Christ.

    Which is not to say that we abide in Christ "through" abstaining from sin. I believe that we abide in Christ "through' faith in Jesus and by staying in close communion / relationship with Him. When we sin, it is a sign that this fellowship has already been broken.

    So, the way to restore fellowship would be to present yourself to the light, would it not be?

    I believe that in confessing our sins as believers, we present ourselves to the light so that the Lord can cleanse us from all sin with His precious blood (1 John 1:7). It is a matter of being transparent before the Lord.

    In being transparent, we present ourselves to the light; and Jesus knows us because we are not hiding from Him in the darkness.

    What does it mean for a person if Jesus says to them on that day, "I never knew you"?

    If I am walking in the light as a believer, and am not sinning, it is because the blood of Jesus, in the verb tense presented in 1 John 1:7, "continually" cleanseth us from all sin.

    If I stop abiding, sin croucheth at the door; it's desire is for me; and I must master it.

    As long as I abide in Christ I will not sin.

    But I want to say that my not sinning is not what makes me saved.

    What makes me saved is the shed blood of Jesus Christ; and this not only justifies me but sanctifies me also (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29, 1 John 1:7). But it does have the effect of justifying me even when my behaviour is ungodly (Romans 4:5). So, it covers my sins (Romans 4:7-8) so that sin is not imputed unto me.

    Thus my relationship to the law has changed. Now I am not under the law (Romans 6:14), am dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19), and am delivered from the law (Romans 7:6). So the law no longer identifies me as a sinner; in that my sins are forgiven and no longer imputed to me. Which is not to say that if the law did apply, I can say that I have no sin. For we are also under the law to Christ (1 Corinthians 9:22).

    I believe that some of these things are things that we have had in common in our theology from the beginning (if you go to my Romans thread, you will see that I taught some of this even before you showed up at these forums: will post a link shortly: (Commentary on Romans.)).

    But I ask you these things as genuine questions coming from the perspective of wanting to learn what it is that you really teach. How do these things apply to what you are teaching? I am not saying that I will necessarily agree with you when all is said and done; but I ask these things in an attempt to find unity according to Paul's exhortation in 1 Corinthians 1:10.
     
  4. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    You had a question for me that turned into your usual anti-scriptural "look at me" BLOG that you create on all my Threads.
    So, isn't it great that i keep posting Threads for you to waste time on, seeing that you are not able to post one for yourself, unless its about me, or its one you say you wrote, 50 yrs ago.
    You have inner problems, son.
    I hope you are able to get them worked out.

    So, let me explain "sinneth not".

    If you are born again, then John is talking to you in that verse.
    He's explaining, as Paul does..... that we are "new creations".
    Our old man is DEAD and we are by new birth, become a NEW CREATION.
    THAT is who we are, in God's perspective.
    This NEVER changes.


    Your problem, one of them, justbyfaith, is that you see yourself as the "flesh", as its in the flesh where all lust, sin, hate, sin, sin, sin, works of the FLESH, is found.
    You constantly want to prove to us that you are a sinner who has indwelling sin.
    OK, we got it 3 weeks ago before you told us 35 more times.
    We know you have a sin problem, and we know you like to talk about yourself as a sinner.
    We HEARD you.

    Now, to correct this, is to discern what John is talking about in your verse.
    See, unlike you, these Men are Spiritual.
    They talk in Spiritual Language that bounces off your carnal mind. This is why you read verses & then always try to teach them based on your fleshy failed reasoning.
    This is why you read my Threads but can't SEE the Light that is In them.

    So, John is explaining to you that there is the flesh, but we are not the flesh. So, its our BORN AGAIN SPIRIT MAN, that is sinless, at all times, that abides so, and cannot Sin.
    its Impossible for the Blood of Jesus to miss one.
    The blood of Jesus has in fact taken care of ALL sin.. Colossians 2:13
    THe Blood Of Jesus is a continuing Atonement, that exist as an ETERNAL Sanctification.
    However, its not sanctifying your flesh, or as you define yourself, "my indwelling sin part"...
    The good news is......God does not see that part of you.
    God is a HOLY SPIRIT who does not SEE anything except the Spiritual, regarding the Born again.
    He sees us as Completed, "IN CHRIST"< = Equal to Himself in Righteousness =at all TIMES.
    That is what John is explaining.


    You dont see yourself there, because Hebrews and bad teachers flipped your faith into the abyss of SELF, long ago.
    That is why you always talk about YOURSELF as a sinner, and never do you understand who you are because of the Cross, and the "Finished work of Jesus on the Cross".
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
  5. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    More false teaching from a leading false *teacher* (who is not really a teacher but a novice). Nothing new. Now notice carefully what is stated in Romans 3:25:

    ROMANS 3: PAST SINS REMITTED AT THE TIME OF JUSTIFICATION
    23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
    25 Whom God hath set forth
    to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
    26 To declare,
    I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

    Paul could easily have said "sins that are past, present, and future" but he did not say that because it would have been false. When God justifies a sinner by His grace, He also remits or forgives all the sins from the past. But since Christians can (and do) sin, God has made provision for that in His Word also:

    1 JOHN 1 & 2: CHRISTIANS MUST ADDRESS PRESENT SINS

    5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
    6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
    7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
    8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us
    our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
    1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
    2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for
    the sins of the whole world.
    3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

     
  6. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    Pauline Theology.
    Im just a simple Bible Believer who is a teacher of Pauline Theology.
    Ive been involved with a few denominations..
    My Congregation in Israel is Messianic.

    My 2 Brothers are different USA Denominations, with my oldest being related more to the Methodist ideas, and my Younger brother being related to the reformed Presbyterian concepts.
    Ive studied most denominations, and most cults.
    I dont define myself as a denomination, as there are no denominations in Heaven.
    There is just the Born again family of God, found in Heaven.
    Down here, people define themselves by their denomination.

    "are you a Christian"...."yes, im a baptist, methodist, catholic, united pentecostal, church of Christ, Lutheran, Assembly of God, Nazarene, ""on and on.

    "well, i asked you if you were a CHRISTIAN">..

    See how that works?/
    Kinda messed up.

    Its vital that we belong to a denomination that Gives all Credit to Christ for saving us and= keeping us saved.
    If you belong to one that only gives Him credit for saving you, then tells you that the rest is up to your enduring and abiding, and repenting and confessing, and penance,.... then leave that one, and never look back, and find the one that gives Christ all credit due Him, alone, for Salvation.
     
  7. Bible_Gazer

    Bible_Gazer Active Member

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    I think we understand OT laws did not save a soul from death. Otherwise Jesus didn't need to come.
    Hopefully we understand there is NT laws that is given, even this one by Jesus. that to be saved you must
    believe in him. Also the next law was to repent and the next one be baptized. Love God with all thy heart another good law.
    When we believe in Jesus and except his laws of salvation he comes and saves us by his grace, because we did right by his laws.

    Question is can grace change us or does his laws of correction and ways of life to live righteously change us if we live by them.
    Getting forgiveness does not change us.
    His love does not change us.
    Something in us has to change, how is that going to get done ?
    If words from the bible is the way to change the hearts and if that is called legalism, then that is God legal words to change us to be saved forever.

    If a Christian is still a sinner, then what laws did they break, NT laws ?
    So how is a Christian saved from the NT laws ?
    The laws of salvation has to be followed to obtain salvation.
    How many NT laws pertain to salvation ?
    OR how many NT laws does not pertain to salvation ?
     
  8. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    Its odd that the "novice" is writing all the Threads that you find yourself on..
    I would think that if you were a teacher, like i am, you would be on your own 40 or 50 Threads teaching, as i do.
    I notice you can't.
    But no matter....
    You keep mine bumped, so, a useful pretender is still useful to me, as its people like you who keep me in front of the eyes of the sincere believers.

    Also notice your verse is John is preaching the Cross to the unbelievers.
    And if they will confess their sin, admit they are sinners, and take Jesus as their savior, God is indeed just to forgive their sin and cleanse them from all unrighteousness, forever..
    This is the "alter call" that is given in 30,000 Baptist churches every Sunday.
    I guess you missed it.
    Colossians 2:13
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
  9. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    God gave laws so that they act as a mirror to reflect God's holiness back to us, so that we see our unholiness when we look at God's law.
    A person can't keep the commandments, or the 600 obo ordinances that God gave as His Holy Mirror.
    So, we find ourselves DEAD,..spiritually dead.... because we were not able to keep the law or commandments..
    God, resolved this issue...
    He came as Jesus the Man, kept the law, abolished the law and replaced it with His Loving Grace.

    God's Grace is God's blood that makes us as Holy as God is, Himself.
    This is Salvation. Its Free.
    This is "the gift of Righteousness".... and its GIVEN and then its maintained for us.... and that is the wonder of God's Grace.
    Its not just that God saves us, but that God Himself keeps us saved, by being Faithful to complete our very salvation.

    Philippians 1:6
     
  10. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    There is a two-in-one law, found in 1 John 3:23.

    Believing on His name is what apprehends the love of the Lord (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5) so that the practical aspects of what you do in your life is changed (1 John 3:17-18).
     
  11. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    The thread that I have written is ongoing, I started it about 1 1/2 years ago.

    I don't spend most of my time giving out what I have received, I spend most of my time receiving from the Lord what I am going to give out.

    It's the wisdom that you might find in Ecclesiastes 10:9-10.

    Instead of chopping at wood all day long with a dull blade, it would be wiser if you sharpened your axe from time to time.

    No, you didn't HEAR me. Because I am saying that we all have indwelling sin; yourself included. That is what John also said. And if he was saying it to a bunch of scientologists or Mary Bakker Eddy converts, he was saying to them that they are not without sin. And so, when he says it to you, and when I say it to you, I am saying to you that you are not without sin. Denying this you deceive yourself and the truth is not in you. I'm not going to go there in my theology; no matter how much you try to shame me into it.

    John is also saying to us that he is not without sin; or, at the very least, if he were to say that he was without sin, he would be deceiving himself and the truth would not be in him.

    How you don't see this is beyond me.

    I think you said that you have taken the time to read certain gnostic documents? I think that you have been deceived by them.
     
  12. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    @Behold,

    you also didn't answer my questions.

     
  13. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    Yes, thats true.
    Here is why.
    See, you are told 100 times the answer, and then you write the same question, again, in a self serving blog.
    Do you see your problem?
    So, it became this for me... trying to deal with you.
    = Proverbs 26:4

    I can't be your holy Spirit, and you are lost in your own odd hybrid ideas of grace and works, of salvation and abiding.
    you quote verses to fit heresy, then you quote them over and over.
    Its your way of functioning on a forum.
    you dont learn, you just keep reposting the same questions and the same verses.

    Any question you can post to me tomorrow, ive answered for you in the past, on one my many Threads, at least 2 times.
    So, i can't learn for you, and i did try to teach you.
    I again realized a few weeks ago that you are a scattered spiritual mess when you were saying that a "New Christian" should be studying Hebrews, without a teacher, when in fact you did this, and it destroyed your faith. Tho you will deny that you said it, of course.
    And you are still not recovered, yet,...and here you were, telling us that a new christian will be safe in the very epistle that tore your head off.

    Get this..
    All heretics live in HEBREWS, JAMES< and MATTHEW.
    And when you live there, or when you try to deal with those 3 epistles without a Teacher who can guide you through them, you end up like you are...and that is not good.
     
  14. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    No, it did not destroy my faith. It tested my faith. And that is what I would have said. I don't remember what I said exactly; but if you want to press home your point, feel free to use the quote feature and bring up the post where I said what you think I said.

    Since you, as a teacher, are directing people away from Hebrews, James, and Matthew, and you also seem to everyone here to be full of pride, I believe that you are inadvertently directing the majority to study Hebrews, James, and Matthew. Is this your intention?

    The reality is that the word of God often tests those to whom it has been given (Psalms 105:17-19).
     
  15. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Also, if I am asking you a sincere question, then I am open to learning from you, if you will answer the question in the context of what my objections are. If you don't have an answer to my objections, then your doctrine has no value to me (or anyone else, for that matter).
     
  16. Renniks

    Renniks Well-Known Member

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    No the amazing thing is that our salvation doesn't rest on us understanding it.
     
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  17. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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  18. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    Ok thanks for your response....
    There was a time when i was looking for another church but with so many it got too confusing so i stayed in the church i was born in...

    With the whole born again thing i have a question or two...
    - What makes you think that your are declared "saved" before you die?
    The Bible says that we need to be born again to be saved but where does it say we are saved while still on this earth?
     
  19. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    And those who dont understand it, should not be trying to teach it, as this causes confusion and every evil work.
    Dont expect them to stop, as the devil is very energetic within his crew.
     
  20. Renniks

    Renniks Well-Known Member

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    I think this: people make salvation into a formula. One formula is: trust Jesus and be saved for ever. Another is: confess sin each time you are aware of it to remain saved. There's other formulas out there, like: you must never sin or you will lose your initial salvation. But salvation isn't a formula, it's a relationship. We confess sin because it hinders that relationship, not out of fear of losing heaven.
     
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