The Decoy Gospel

[mailmandan]

They hate holiness and the nature of God so much, that they must invent a scarecrow to justify sin. In doing so, they make the Gospel a means to support sin.

This is the mother of all of straw man arguments used by spiritual narcissists who view themselves as “holier than thou” and look down on others. Reminds me of the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector in Luke 18:9-14.

 

[Candidus]

Condeming people is not a divine nature your flesh is still your flesh no matter how much paint you put on it or how much you cover it up to hide it.

Jesus therefore... did not possess the Divine Nature. Sad how people turn the Grace of God into licentiousness! To call a defense and appeal to Holiness and Righteousness "Sin"! Even to the point of destroying the Deity of Christ in the process if it gets them their Antinomian Dream of theological fictions!

 

[Candidus]

This the mother of all of straw man arguments used by those who view themselves as “holier than thou” and look down on others. Reminds me of the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector in Luke 18:9-14.

Once again, Where Oh' Where is your Strawman? You imply something of others that you have nothing but a your human imagination to attack them from!

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived." 1 Cor. 6:9.

"The way of the fool is right in his own eyes: but he that harkeneth unto counsel is wise" Prov. 12:15.

 

[mailmandan]

Do you believe that you can sin and win, and that God is impotent to actual save the sinner FROM their sin as He says, and make them a Saint? Yes or No?

Sin and win? More sinless perfection? Being a Saint doesn’t mean you will never stumble. It’s about the direction of our walk (not the perfection of our walk and I’m talking about absolute perfection) as we grow towards maturity in Christ.

I see that you once again dodged my question, so I will ask you one more time. It’s a simple question.

Do you believe that you are sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolutely perfect 100% of the time? YES or NO?

 

[Truman]

Obviously, if you live by a self-contradictory man-made philosophy as that, your Appeal To Ignorance is no argument at all!

As I said earlier, peace.

 

[Candidus]

Sin and win? More sinless perfection? Being a Saint doesn’t mean you will never stumble. It’s about the direction of our walk (not the perfection of our walk and I’m talking about absolute perfection) as we grow towards maturity in Christ.

Once again, you dodge the question!

Name the persons or the Movement within Christianity that teach or taught your definition of "Sinless Perfection." You cannot impugn and judge others on a strawman of your own invention! If you cannot establish where anyone ever taught what you are fighting, then why do you beat the air? Are you a modern Don Quixote finding another windmill to attack?

 

[Candidus]

As I said earlier, peace.

I accept your defeat.

 

[Episkopos]

Sin and win? More sinless perfection? Being a Saint doesn’t mean you will never stumble. It’s about the direction of our walk (not the perfection of our walk and I’m talking about absolute perfection) as we grow towards maturity in Christ.

I see that you once again dodged my question, so I will ask you one more time. It’s a simple question.

Do you believe that you are sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolutely perfect 100% of the time? YES or NO?

Why don't you look to Christ instead of people? Why the ingrained and harsh unbelief? Why the hiding behind the flesh?

I have said....over and over...the VERY biblical....we don't sin as we abide in Christ.

But you either can't read or else you are so dishonest that you can't make the thought enter into your brain.

IN HIM is NO sin.

What is so hard to understand about that?

We go in and out (we who know the power of Christ over sin) of the Spirit in our Christian lives. It takes a number of these comings and goings into Zion before we can develop the maturity to be able to no longer fall out of the Spirit. So with every person it is different. John Wesley testified to knowing a man who went in and out of the Spirit 5 times before learning the secret of a constant abiding in Christ. Wesley said the man was a living saint. So then if it took him 5 times it means there is a lot to learn about the Spirit and the flesh...and the wiles of the devil...in our lives. But if people aren't even moving forward in the race of faith...they will never experience the victory even once. They will have effectively buried their talent.

I myself have been in the Spirit twice. A very powerful supernatural walk as a dead man but alive in the presence of God. The first time lasted but for a few days...until I wanted OUT. So the first time the problem was me. It was too overwhelming for my selfish nature at the time. I had no knowledge of the process and training of God. I was as green as green could be. And the second time for 2.5 years (18 years later). So I know the walk very well. In that second time I never sinned once in thought or deed. Even my dreams were prophetic. THAT is the power of grace on a person. That is my testimony.

Turn from your sin and rebellion to the living God. Believe the gospel.

 

[Candidus]

IN HIM is NO sin.

What is so hard to understand about that?

And I would add to the quotation.... "Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world."

and,

“God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth."

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

It is not hard to understand that in Him there is no SIN, no DARKNESS, and those that are truly saved hear and follow Him... and are like Him... not fictionally, but in reality!

"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous."

Reality! Not theological "positional" fictions! "Let no man deceive you!"

 

[Enoch111]

No, the Bible never says that anyone HAS THE IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST. You can read it into Scripture, but you cannot find it stated in Scripture.

Wrong. Like I told Episkopos, study Romans, particularly chapter 4. If you do not know this fundamental Bible truth, then you need to know it.

ROMANS 4: RIGHTEOUSNESS IS IMPUTED TO THE BELIEVER

ABRAHAM WAS JUSTIFIED BY FAITH
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted [IMPUTED] unto him for righteousness.

JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH = IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted [IMPUTED]for righteousness.

DAVID WROTE OF IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS WITHOUT WORKS
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS IS FOR BOTH JEW AND GENTILE
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision [JEWS] only, or upon the uncircumcision [GENTILES] also? for we say that faith was reckoned [IMPUTED] to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How was it then reckoned [IMPUTED]? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

CIRCUMCISION WAS A SIGN AND SEAL OF IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS
11And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith [IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS] which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM IS ALSO THE FAITH OF BELIEVERS
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. 13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. [IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS]

THE LAW SIMPLY ESTABLISHES GUILT
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

JUSTIFICATION BY GRACE REQUIRES ONLY FAITH LIKE ABRAHAM'S
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, 17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. 18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS IS FOR ALL BELIEVERS
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

How did you miss all this???? Within the space of 25 verses imputation and justification are mentioned TEN TIMES. This is solid Bible doctrine, and if you cannot believe this then you cannot believe God about anything. "Reckoned", "counted" and "imputed" all mean the same thing.

GOD PUTS TO THE SPIRITUAL ACCOUNT OF THE BELIEVER THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST. THIS IS ALSO CALLED THE ROBE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS IN SCRIPTURE.

 

[Enoch111]

Why don't you look to Christ instead of people? Why the ingrained and harsh unbelief? Why the hiding behind the flesh?

All you can do is make false and WILD accusations. As though you know his heart. So now not only are you a wolf in sheep's clothing, but an accuser of the brethren, which means a surrogate of Satan. Mailmandan believes in imputed righteousness just like I do, and just like all genuine believers do. And you have also made WILD accusations against me. You are the one promoting a false gospel.

 

[CharismaticLady]

You do not understand. that beautiful spirit that God put in us, cannot sin, you are too busy making teh outside of teh cup look clean, it is ugly and will always be,

The outside of the cup? Are you talking about our body??? Our body doesn't sin. Sin is from our nature, whether a sinful nature, or doesn't sin due to being born again to eternal life. 1 John 3:5 Jesus was manifest to take away our sin (nature) (nailing it to the cross) and in Him there is no sin. But because of Adam's sin, our body must die literally, and put on immortality at the resurrection.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Condeming people is not a divine nature your flesh is still your flesh no matter how much paint you put on it or how much you cover it up to hide it.

I really hate it when people do not appreciate ALL that Jesus did for us. I will defend Jesus every day of my life. Instead you would have us believe Jesus is okay with sin, and only paid for the consequences. Shame on you! You are either deliberately not reading my posts, or just can't comprehend them.

 

[CharismaticLady]

They hate holiness and the nature of God so much, that they must invent a scarecrow to justify sin. In doing so, they make the Gospel a means to support sin.

They have been brainwashed from the dead doctrine from the Reformation. Martin Luther was the first to teach "even if you commit murder and adultery 1000 times a day, it will not separate you from God." OSAS

 

[Episkopos]

All you can do is make false and WILD accusations. As though you know his heart. So now not only are you a wolf in sheep's clothing, but an accuser of the brethren, which means a surrogate of Satan. Mailmandan believes in imputed righteousness just like I do, and just like all genuine believers do. And you have also made WILD accusations against me. You are the one promoting a false gospel.

Wild accusations indeed. What next...I'm plotting to steal Christmas? You are running out of superlatives and exaggerations to protect your false doctrine. You are free to believe in a fiction. But you are attacking genuine believers in so doing. Look to yourself and your own nasty posting...grumpy and devoid of any grace. You are just a miserable religious ideologue. (I can almost see you frowning right now)

There is no such thing as imputed righteousness. Imputing means to see something that's there already. As in...the noise was imputed to the broken muffler.

In English the word imputed means to attribute something to...not impose a quality that isn't there.

So you need an English lesson first even before you hear the true gospel.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Wild accusations indeed. What next...I'm plotting to steal Christmas? You are running out of superlatives and exaggerations to protect your false doctrine. You are free to believe in a fiction. But you are attacking genuine believers in so doing. Look to yourself and your own nasty posting...grumpy and devoid of any grace. You are just a miserable religious ideologue. (I can almost see you frowning right now)

There is no such thing as imputed righteousness. Imputing means to see something that's there already. As in...the noise was imputed to the broken muffler.

In English the word imputed means to attribute something to...not impose a quality that isn't there.

So you need an English lesson first even before you hear the true gospel.

Besides, "imputed righteousness" was given to Old Testament saints. Jesus makes us truly righteous. Sins were "covered" in the Old Testament, not in the New. Jesus takes away our past sin. And gives us His sinless Spirit to empower us to be like Christ.

 

[marks]

Sin and win? More sinless perfection? Being a Saint doesn’t mean you will never stumble. It’s about the direction of our walk (not the perfection of our walk and I’m talking about absolute perfection) as we grow towards maturity in Christ.

I see that you once again dodged my question, so I will ask you one more time. It’s a simple question.

Do you believe that you are sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolutely perfect 100% of the time? YES or NO?

Hi mailmandan,

Most of those I've heard that teach like this, will never answer that question. Or if they do, they will always insert some ambiguity. I did know a fellow on a forum many years ago who came right out and said that he never sinned. But anyone reading his posts knew that was not true.

We really do put ourselves on display in our postings. And I've not read anyone here who's claims, or suggestions of sinlessness that I believe. I mean, I can see what they write!

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, and post after post of accusation and dishonest inneundo, blatant misrepresentation, I continue to see these displayed so often in those who either claim, or just act as if it's true, that they've reached some sort of sinless state.

I know sanctification is real, but it is in faith in Christ that our lives are sanctified, the same faith by which we are saved.

Counter their claims with Scripture, and get a dose of their true temperment!

No, typically, at least what I've seen, is that someone will post over and over as if they are above everyone else, theologically, spiritually, some even think that they should be ruling over us, approving who is and who is not OK with God. And then continue to display such nonsense in their posts.

No, the more someone acts like that, the more they reveal that they are not progressed in Love, and that's the heart. Think what you think, know what you know, but without love, it's nothing!

James 3:13 "Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom."

Much love!

 

[marks]

They hate holiness and the nature of God so much,

And you truly believe you speak truth here?

 

[marks]

We should want "our own righteousness" because

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

 

[Enoch111]

Besides, "imputed righteousness" was given to Old Testament saints.

So you have never read Romans 4 either. Just like Episkopos and Candidus. Please read my post above which explains Roman 4. "And be not faithless but believing".