Very big GAP in the trinity

[justbyfaith]

He was MADE by them, not portal(ed) THROUGH them from a former Spirit being. Eternal Jesus did not BECOME temporal man, microscopically.

Actually, He did.

Then you think a Spirit God "portaled" Himself microscopically into a woman, and through her womb into the world. Try telling the congregation that one on Sunday.

I'll tell it to you, right now.

1Co 2:14, But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Truther]

Actually, He did.



I'll tell it to you, right now.

1Co 2:14, But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

RCC teachings of an incarnated God receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God.....

 

[justbyfaith]

RCC teachings of an incarnated God receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God.....

It is not only the RCC that teaches that God incarnated in flesh.

It is a biblical doctrine (1 Timothy 3:16 (kjv), 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

 

[Truther]

It is not only the RCC that teaches that God incarnated in flesh.

It is a biblical doctrine (1 Timothy 3:16 (kjv), 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

1 Tim 3:16 says God was manifested THROUGH Jesus...., not AS Jesus.

If you don't believe that, read 2 Cor 5:19.

If you don't believe that, read.....(I can post bunches).

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus is the Word become flesh (John 1:1, John 1:14).

Those who deny the incarnation find themselves condemned as having the spirit of antichrist according to 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

 

[Randy Kluth]

There is no doubt that Christian man has a tendency to try and outthink God and decide for him what he can and cannot do. In so doing they wittingly or unwittingly put God into a box and limit his abilities to the here and now.

The scripture says that the natural man can't discern the things of the Spirit. What that means is that when a Christian is thinking naturally, he can't understand God and what he is all about. it needs a supernatural and regenerate mind to be able to do that.

That is how I see prayer. Lord tell us what is what because I do not know with my natural mind. The scripture says to "Put on..." There is much to put on, not least the regenerate mind so that we can discern the spiritual, bearing in mind we do not fight against flesh and blood. No use going up against a tank with a sword.

The weapons of our warfare are not carnal.....but mighty to the pulling down of (spiritual) strongholds. If we fight without faith, prayer, and the other weapons given us, there will only be one outcome...defeat.

No, let God be God and let him do what he does best.

I agree with the gist of what you're saying, but I would re-word it a little lest people of this world think God is an irrational concept and unworthy of belief. The unregenerate mind can indeed conceive of God. Our minds were built to naturally perceive God. Romans tells us that, that no man has any excuse (ch. 1).

The trouble is, the unregenerate mind fails to perceive the moral virtues of God, and thus denies God's existence as not a morally worthy concept. God is viewed as no better than man, and as such, is possibly a humanized idea. This is all an excuse for rejecting what they know in their conscience is true, that God exists.

We can argue God, but men need to repent, in order to benefit from believing in Him The idea of God is not irratonal--it naturally appeals to the human mind. It's just that unregenerate man corrupts this notion of God.

 

[Truther]

Jesus is the Word become flesh (John 1:1, John 1:14).

Those who deny the incarnation find themselves condemned as having the spirit of antichrist according to 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

Do those verses say God turned into a human cell, as incarnationists teach?

 

[justbyfaith]

The ways of God are difficult to understand. God is in Heaven. When Jesus was on Earth, Heaven was on Earth (within Jesus); as, the kingdom of God is within you. Just like the trinity, Heaven is someplace above and here on Earth. When we look at a Christian, we are seeing God; the Holy Spirit is within all Christians. God is not in Heaven, God is within me. Or, maybe, Heaven is within me and not in the sky? Or, Heaven is in more than one place at a single moment. When we pray, most of us do not pray to God within us (even though that is completely appropriate). We think of God above, and tend to look upward. That is immature, but not incorrect. Praying to God within is correct (the Holy Spirit is within us), but it feels heretical. Our human minds tend to try to understand the things of God from a human perspective - this can lead to confusion. The Father is within me, the Holy Spirit is within me, and Jesus is within me. Heaven is above and Heaven is on Earth - both are true. Similar statements can be made of Lucifer; Lucifer's domain is "this world", Lucifer can be within us (i.e., Peter), but Lucifer dwells below - all are true. Spiritual understanding can be confusing if we try to understand from a human perspective.

While God dwells in me in all of His fulness (1 Corinthians 6:17, Ephesians 3:19), He also fills all things (Psalms 139, Ephesians 4:10).

So it is not immature to pray to God as He exists outside of myself.

If I pray to God within me, am I not required to answer my prayer myself. And must I not be the vessel that God uses to answer my prayer?

But if I pray to God as He exists outside of myself, He can use any vessel to ac complish His purposes.

Therefore I would say that it is expedient to pray to the Lord as He exists outside of myself; and also, if opportunity arises for me to be the vessel by which my prayer is answered, I am to realize that God as He exists in me just might be the One to answer my prayer.

 

[marksman]

I agree with the gist of what you're saying, but I would re-word it a little lest people of this world think God is an irrational concept and unworthy of belief. The unregenerate mind can indeed conceive of God. Our minds were built to naturally perceive God. Romans tells us that, that no man has any excuse (ch. 1).

The trouble is, the unregenerate mind fails to perceive the moral virtues of God, and thus denies God's existence as not a morally worthy concept. God is viewed as no better than man, and as such, is possibly a humanized idea. This is all an excuse for rejecting what they know in their conscience is true, that God exists.

We can argue God, but men need to repent, in order to benefit from believing in Him The idea of God is not irratonal--it naturally appeals to the human mind. It's just that unregenerate man corrupts this notion of God.

Well said.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all.
"Is the Lord Jesus our husband?"
argument from TRUTH, and not from Ignorance.

Scripture, Isaiah 54:5 "For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called."

Isaiah 54:6 "For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God."

notice it is the LORD who has called us as a woman/wife.
Here in Isaiah 54, the bible is Clear that our "MAKER" is our HUSBAND who is the LORD, and that's all caps in LORD. but did not the Lord Jesus, the Son, the WORD of God in John 1:3 MAKE ALL THINGS, meaning that he is our "MAKER"? and he's our REDEEMER. Isaiah 54 states that his name is the LORD of Host. well who is this LORD of Host. Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;" this is ONE PERSON who is the Lord in John 1:3. but again who is the LORD of Hosts? again Isaiah and and John tells us who he is. first,
Isaiah 6:1 "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple."
Isaiah 6:2 "Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly."
Isaiah 6:3 "And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory."
(John of Patmos saw this same scene in Revelation chapter 4). read Isaiah 6:1-4 and Revelation 4:6-11. and it is confirmed in the book of John who clearly identifies who the LORD of Host is. Listen to John idenification of the LORD of Hosts, and he is quoting from Isaiah.

John 12:37 "But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:"
John 12:38 "That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?" (IDENTIFICATION #1, Isaiah chapter 53... verse 1).
John 12:39 "Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,"
John 12:40 "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them."(IDENTIFICATION #2, Isaiah 6:9 & 10). NOW COMES THE GAME OVER VERSE,
John 12:41 "These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him."(IDENTIFICATION #3, Isaiah 6:1-3). BINGO, game over.

John just Identified the Lord JESUS, whom you call the Son as the LORD of HOST whom you calls the Father. BINGO, GAME OVER
question, "when did he, Isaiah, see God's Glory, just go back to Isaiah 6:1 "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple."
Isaiah 6:2 "Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly."
Isaiah 6:3 "And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory."

QUESTION, is not the LORD, the Holy GOD a Spirit and cannot be seen? a resounding "YES", but here in chapter 6 he saw him in a vision, in FLESH, as Philp 2:7 states. BINGO, there he is, "the LORD OF HOSTS". the God of the OT, seen in flesh, that was to come. and it was the "Lord", Jesus, God in flesh the ordinal LAST sitting on the throne just as John on the island of patmos saw JESUS sitting on the throne. BINGO, confirmed by three witness. not by two only, but by three witness, and there are more.

JESUS the LORD of Host is he himself, God almighty, "shared" in flesh as or in LIKNESS a man, the REDEEMER and SAVIOUR of the world, (Per Phil 2:6 & 7). the same one Person, not a separate person, but the same one Person.... "SHARED" in flesh as G243 allos defines. BINGO

the book of John clearly states, John 12:41 "These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.", Isaiah saw JESUS in a vision, but John saw JESUS, the LORD of Host in the flesh, real time, not in a vision. just as the LORD spoke by Hosea 12:10 "I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets." there is that vision that Isaiah saw the Lord. :cool:

JESUS is the LORD of Host, the God of the OT whom many calls "FATHER". who is "Spirit", the Holy Spirit, he, the LORD of Host who Made all things, and he didn't go through anyone, and there was no one else there when he made all things. and he JESUS as the LORD, and the "Lord" in flesh that was to come, who is the only one one who have "ETERNAL LIFE". so we suggest you examine yourself, and do what the Lord Jesus say do, John 5:39 "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

"YE THINK"....... THINK?, or do you really know.... are you sure?.......

PICJAG.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Well said.

Thank you, brother! :)

 

[MattMooradian]

If I pray to God within me, am I not required to answer my prayer myself. And must I not be the vessel that God uses to answer my prayer?

But if I pray to God as He exists outside of myself, He can use any vessel to ac complish His purposes.

Your statement seems to imply that the Holy Spirit is less powerful than God the Father. You are making the case against the trinity by raising that argument. The Holy Spirit and God the Father are the same being.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Holy Spirit and God the Father are the same being.

They are distinct from one another.

 

[justbyfaith]

Your statement seems to imply that the Holy Spirit is less powerful than God the Father. You are making the case against the trinity by raising that argument. The Holy Spirit and God the Father are the same being.

If I pray merely to the Holy Spirit as He dwells in me, then the Holy Spirit will be required to answer that prayer....as He dwells in me.

But if I pray to the eternal Spirit as he exists outside of me, He can answer the prayer through anyone whom He will indwell...through anyone in the body of Christ rather than just a singular member.

 

[MattMooradian]

But if I pray to the eternal Spirit as he exists outside of me, He can answer the prayer through anyone whom He will indwell...through anyone in the body of Christ rather than just a singular member.

You seem to place limits on the power of the Holy Spirit?

 

[justbyfaith]

You seem to place limits on the power of the Holy Spirit?

The Holy Ghost dwells within me in all of His fulness and is one Spirit with my spirit (Ephesians 3:19, 1 Corinthians 6:17).

I suppose that if I pray to the Spirit as He indwells me, He can also relay the message to Himself as He dwells fully in other saints also...

But something tells me that the Lord wants me to not pray to the Holy Ghost but to either the Father or the Son...as i do not see any promises concerning answer to prayer when we pray to the Holy Ghost; but I do find promises as concerning praying to the Father or the Son (John 14:13-14, John 16:23-27).

 

[MattMooradian]

something tells me that the Lord wants me to not pray to the Holy Ghost

Maybe you do not believe that God dwells within you? Orthodox Christians feel they are being heretical when they focus too much on the Holy Spirit.

 

[ChristisGod]

Maybe you do not believe that God dwells within you? Orthodox Christians feel they are being heretical when they focus too much on the Holy Spirit.

One way to know if one has the Holy Spirit and speaks by the Spirit of God is the following from Jesus :

Jesus said the Holy Spirit will bear witness of HIM

John 15:26
“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:7-9
But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me

John 16:13-14
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.

The Holy Spirits ministry in the believer is to bring glory to Christ and testify of Jesus.

hope this helps !!!

 

[justbyfaith]

So, the Holy Ghost, God, does not answer prayers? Your view of the trinity suggests the Holy Spirit is not God - the Holy Spirit is not all-knowing, all-seeing, and omnipresent?

The Holy Ghost is God; but He is distinct from the Father and the Son.

 

[Taken]

I think you're misinterpreting "not of blood."

God is a Spirit who supernaturally heals people's physical bodies--the spiritual affecting the physical! I know, because He healed my body.

Jesus had to be human because He had to be born under the law as we are.... Only humans are under the law.

Gal 3:4-5--When the time came to completion, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.
.

So you think Jesus is a Human man.
I do not.