“I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,” (2 Samuel 7:10)
Are The 144,000 Christian?
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“I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,” (2 Samuel 7:10)
01CobraVortech
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Did I miss something? In what part of that scripture is it alluding to the British Isles? I'm not seeing it.
You have to fit this and other prophecies into history. Clearly it's not referring to what is now called "Israel" as that's where they were when the promise was given.
Much of the detail of many prophecies, promises and parables concerning the tribes of Israel in these last days cannot be understood and remains silent mystery until you appreciate what became of them. The northern "house of Israel" (along with about 200,000 Judahites) were taken captive & deported by the Assyrians to an area near the Caucasian mountains, the vast majority never returned to Palestine but became wanderers accross Europe (map). They emerged as the Anglo-Saxon-Celtic people. The history of the "House of Judah" is more well known, they were taken captive to Babylon for 70 years and returned in the time of Ezra & Nehemiah.
Basic intro here.
More detail here.
Btitish from Hebrew: brit: covenant, ish:man.
The unconditional promises given to Abraham, (and David concerning the Throne)
What do you read of them in the scripture?
Rev 7:4
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
They are not called as Christians. But we find another multitude who are called 'Those who have washed their clothes in the blood of the Lamb.
If you find yourself a place in this group, why you look around and debete if those from the tribes of the children of Israel are Christians? No where in the Bible we read 'we Christians are titled with a tribe's name like Ruben or Benjamin.
In Rev 14 we find again the mention of 144000 saints.
These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Let us seach the scripture to find if there is any group of people called the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb?
Jer 2:3
Israel was holiness unto the Lord, and the firstfruits of his increase.
Rev 7:4
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
They are not called as Christians. But we find another multitude who are called 'Those who have washed their clothes in the blood of the Lamb.
If you find yourself a place in this group, why you look around and debete if those from the tribes of the children of Israel are Christians? No where in the Bible we read 'we Christians are titled with a tribe's name like Ruben or Benjamin.
In Rev 14 we find again the mention of 144000 saints.
These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Let us seach the scripture to find if there is any group of people called the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb?
Jer 2:3
Israel was holiness unto the Lord, and the firstfruits of his increase.
To me, the 144,000 are Christian, that is believers, but an elected not all Christians/believers.
It should be fairly obvious from scripture that the believers of the NT were believers according to what became enshrined the NT. That all who call themselves Christians are not believers is evident from the NT, and eveident from a confession of faith or disbelief, but only God can pass the judgement to eternal life.
It should be fairly obvious from scripture that the believers of the NT were believers according to what became enshrined the NT. That all who call themselves Christians are not believers is evident from the NT, and eveident from a confession of faith or disbelief, but only God can pass the judgement to eternal life.
Yes !They are Christians in the true sense of the term...they abide in Christ.
Jesus mother was a Israel a true Christian.
The 144,000 of Rev.7 are all literal Israelites, and they're all sealed with God's seal in their foreheads. They represent an elect remnant specifically from the seed of Israel. That sealing by God is so as to not be deceived for the end time. It was first mentioned prophetically in Ezekiel 9 about God telling the angel with the inkhorn to go and put a mark on the foreheads of all those who sigh in Jerusalem because of the abominations going on covered back in Ezekiel 8. The last Hebrew letter 'Tau' is used for the word "mark", and Tau was represented by a cross in ancient Hebrew writing. The idea of the sealing for the end is also hinted at in Rev.9.
But the 144,000 are not the only ones sealed by God. By the later Rev.7 example of a future look about the "great multitude" out of all nations and peoples standing before the throne and The Lamb, that signifies their having been sealed away from deception along with the 144,000.
The 144,000 as Virgins:
The Rev.14:4 idea of the 144,000 being literal virgins is not the idea meant there. It's a symbol for faithfulness, as our Lord Jesus and His Apostles used the 'virgin' symbol to represent faithful believers on Him that do not fall away nor become deceived in the end (i.e., Matt.25; 2 Corinthians 11). God first used the 'virgin' symbol in the Old Testament to represent faithfulness to Him. He contrasted the idea of a spiritual harlot with it. I've noticed many brethren in Christ are very lacking in Bible study about this important spiritual virgin metaphor which God's Word uses, including for the tribulation timing.
But the 144,000 are not the only ones sealed by God. By the later Rev.7 example of a future look about the "great multitude" out of all nations and peoples standing before the throne and The Lamb, that signifies their having been sealed away from deception along with the 144,000.
The 144,000 as Virgins:
The Rev.14:4 idea of the 144,000 being literal virgins is not the idea meant there. It's a symbol for faithfulness, as our Lord Jesus and His Apostles used the 'virgin' symbol to represent faithful believers on Him that do not fall away nor become deceived in the end (i.e., Matt.25; 2 Corinthians 11). God first used the 'virgin' symbol in the Old Testament to represent faithfulness to Him. He contrasted the idea of a spiritual harlot with it. I've noticed many brethren in Christ are very lacking in Bible study about this important spiritual virgin metaphor which God's Word uses, including for the tribulation timing.
Not quite right in my opinion.Because a Jew who understands that Jesus is the Messiah is technically a Christian. They will be converted Jews much in the same way as the apostle Paul was converted. Now one could argue that whilst the apostle Paul was a Jew, he was a Jew that became a Christian. The 144,000 will be like the apostle Paul, they will be as powerful and as influential as he was. Imagine 144,000 Apostle Paul’s in the world at one time and you will get the idea. This is why an innumerable amount of people get saved during the tribulation period, because of these guys. Many of them will be martyred.
Correct, a less offensive name given to them was "followers of The Way", which I myself prefer, although sadly there is a "Christian Cult" who uses that name now.
Something to note about the 144,000 list in Rev.7. They are not all... Jews.
Those who know their Bible history understand how God split Israel into two separate nations after Solomon's days. And they know the Jews refer to those of the southern kingdom of "Judah" at Jerusalem with the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi.
The northern kingdom of "Israel" was made up of the ten northern tribes who were not Jews. Those ten tribes were taken in captivity and scattered among the Gentiles first, and lost their heritage as Israelites. Thus some of that 144,000 list means also ten lost tribe Israelites dwelling among the Gentiles, thinking they are Gentiles. That can mean non-Jew Israelites as Christians.
Those who know their Bible history understand how God split Israel into two separate nations after Solomon's days. And they know the Jews refer to those of the southern kingdom of "Judah" at Jerusalem with the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi.
The northern kingdom of "Israel" was made up of the ten northern tribes who were not Jews. Those ten tribes were taken in captivity and scattered among the Gentiles first, and lost their heritage as Israelites. Thus some of that 144,000 list means also ten lost tribe Israelites dwelling among the Gentiles, thinking they are Gentiles. That can mean non-Jew Israelites as Christians.
Since your talking about knowing your bible - Scripture references please??
Correct, but they are Hebrews.
I've been thinking about this...from scripture we can see that the 144,000 are all servants of our God who are sealed in their foreheads and that all 144,000 are from all the tribes of the children of Israel. (see Revelation 7: 1-8)
Start with 1 Kings 11 and continue through 2 Kings 17 (also 1 and 2 Chronicles). God split old Israel into 2 separate kingdoms. Read the Antiquities of The Jews by Flavius Josephus, Jewish historian of the 1st century A.D. He declared the title of 'Jew' first began to be used only by the small remnant that returned to Jerusalem from the 70 years Babylon captivity. The ten northern tribes of Israel did not go into the 70 years Babylon captivity, for God had already removed them by the kings of Assyria around 120 years earlier.
Here's a short outline of the two kingdoms of Israel after Solomon's days:
1. God splits Israel into two kingdoms
2. Rehoboam (Solomon's son) given to rule over the tribes of Judah and Benjamin at Jerusalem. Many of Levi eventually added. Some of the northern ten tribes already living in Judea chose to stay with Judah. God's Word calls this southern kingdom "Judah" or "house of Judah".
3. Northern kingdom of "Israel", capital at Samaria; God gave Jeroboam (of Ephraim) ten tribes, and made him king of Israel. Northern kingdom included the majority of the tribes of Israel, minus Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. Northern kingdom called "Samaria", "Israel", "house of Israel", "house of Joseph", or just "Joseph", or "Ephraim" after the split. God removed these ten tribes of Israel out the land first, and they were lost as Israelites, even for today.
That was Bible history. It's well recorded in God's Word, and in secular history. Jewish scholars are well aware of it, part of them believe as written also that God is going to join both 'houses' back together in final (per Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc.), and another portion of Jewish scholars that believe the ten tribes of Israel are lost forever.
Yes. All those 144,000 are Hebrews. But not all Jews. The name 'Hebrew' originated with Eber, an ancestor of Abraham. The title of 'Jew' originated from the sole tribe of Judah. It was taken also by the tribes of Benjamin and Levi which joined with Judah in the south at Jerusalem to make up the southern kingdom of the "house of Judah". All living in that kingdom took the title of 'Jew', even the foreigners that lived there among them. Thus the title of 'Jew' is a later... term. This is how Apostle Paul could claim that he was both an Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin, and also a Jew. It's because his tribe of Benjamin became joined with Judah per 1 Kings 12-13. All living in the 'kingdom of Judah' took the name Jew, just as one would in whatever land they lived.
To be accurate, not all of the tribes of Israel are listed there in Rev.7. Notice Dan is not there. But Dan is added back in per the end of Ezekiel 48. Joseph is mentioned instead of Ephraim in Rev.7. If you count Ephraim and Manasseh as separate tribes, then there's actually 13 tribes of Israel.
Your Scripture reference for that idea?
Never mind, noticed your account disabled.
The 144,000 are the saints of Christ.
They are virgin Jews by the blood of the Lamb since there is no way to come to God but that way.
They are not... all Jews. The idea that only Jews are Israelites today is a tradition of men. Only 3 tribes out of all the tribes were known as Jews historically (Judah, Benjamin, and Levi). The rest of the tribes were not ever historically known as Jews. Assiging them as Jews is a political agenda from men.
Actually in regards to Rev 7, all Jews are Israelites, but not all Israelites are Jews. I understand the technicality here. Jews only come from Judah, interestingly, the first tribe mentioned in Rev 7:5 is Judah. How about we use the same term the Bible does, Tribes of Israel?
[sup]5 [/sup]From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
[sup]6 [/sup]from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
[sup]7 [/sup]from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
[sup]8 [/sup]from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.
Then in Rev 14:3-5 we see their pedigree, [sup]3 [/sup]And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. [sup]4 [/sup]These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. [sup]5 [/sup]No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.
Benjamin and Levi joined with Judah after God split Israel into two separate kingdoms (1 Kings 12-13). Thus they were known as Jews also.
ALL the 12 tribes from Jacob are Israelites and Hebrews, but they are not all Jews (Judah, Benjamin, Levi).
That is strictly in the bloodline sense I speak of, not in the religious sense, for many foreigners have also taken the title of Jew through history (Esther 8:17).
ALL the 12 tribes from Jacob are Israelites and Hebrews, but they are not all Jews (Judah, Benjamin, Levi).
That is strictly in the bloodline sense I speak of, not in the religious sense, for many foreigners have also taken the title of Jew through history (Esther 8:17).
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