The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS

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Taken

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Jesus' teachings show us what we need to be prepared to meet Him when he returns. The Bible does not teach us that we need to believe in once saved always saved or not once saved always saved. It teaches us to have a living faith full of righteous works of the Spirit that Jesus will use to judge us as his righteous people and who will enter into the kingdom of God. I see once saved always saved doctrines being used to give false assurance to church people who have nothing more than James' dead faith (faith without works). We have the focus in the wrong place. Determining if once saved always saved is true or not will not benefit anybody on the day of God's wrath. Having a life of righteous works produced by your faith in Christ will. That is what Jesus teaches. And Galatians 5:22-23 is what that righteous life looks like.

Without Faith there are NO WORKS a man can do Glorify God. Period.

Heb 11:
[6] But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is...

Titus 3:
[5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us...

Well, Some of us...He has SAVED
Others believe and teach another gospel.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Ferris Bueller

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Without Faith there are NO WORKS a man can do Glorify God. Period.

Heb 11:
[6] But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is...
But the church takes false comfort in their dead faith anyway, despite what the Bible says.
 

Ferris Bueller

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Christ's Church is Supreme. :)
Can't say for man-made churches.
Agreed. So let's stop telling people they're saved despite their dead faith and explain to them that they need to get saved. We need to teach the sermons Jesus taught about being ready to meet him when he returns, not comfort people in a faith they may not really have.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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Without Faith there are NO WORKS a man can do Glorify God. Period.

Heb 11:
[6] But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is...
That's right. People who don't have works don't have faith. But we give false comfort to these people in the church by telling them it doesn't matter because salvation is not by works and that once you are saved you are always saved. Wrong message. We need to tell them what Jesus said about being ready to meet him when he comes back. Dead faith does not make a person prepared to meet him when he returns because faith without works is not faith.
 

justbyfaith

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That's right. People who don't have works don't have faith. But we give false comfort to these people in the church by telling them it doesn't matter because salvation is not by works and that once you are saved you are always saved. Wrong message. We need to tell them what Jesus said about being ready to meet him when he comes back. Dead faith does not make a person prepared to meet him when he returns because faith without works is not faith.
Most definitely, a person who has genuine faith is one who has apprehended the love of the Lord (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5).

But we do not apprehend the love of God by pretending to have it.

The only way to obtain that love is through faith.

No amount of works is going to apprehend the love of God for me. If I give $5 to the poor, or even $5,000,000, that is not going to regenerate and renew me in the Holy Ghost.

Only faith in Jesus and the finished work of the Cross is able to do that for me. I am saved by His mercy..."not by works of righteousness which we have done." (Titus 3:5)
 

Ferris Bueller

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Most definitely, a person who has genuine faith is one who has apprehended the love of the Lord (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5).

But we do not apprehend the love of God by pretending to have it.

The only way to obtain that love is through faith.

No amount of works is going to apprehend the love of God for me. If I give $5 to the poor, or even $5,000,000, that is not going to regenerate and renew me in the Holy Ghost.

Only faith in Jesus and the finished work of the Cross is able to do that for me. I am saved by His mercy..."not by works of righteousness which we have done." (Titus 3:5)
I think everybody knows you do not earn your salvation by doing works. The problem is a lot of people think that means you don't have to have works when Jesus comes back. If you don't have works of righteousness per Galatians 5:22-23 you do not have faith. You are not ready to meet Jesus when he comes back. You don't have the faith that saves.

Telling people that they don't have to have works when Jesus comes back deceives people into thinking they are saved when they probably are not saved at all. You need to be teaching what Jesus said about his return. But nobody seems to be doing that. Jesus did not teach a works gospel. He taught us what a life of faith and love for Him looks like and that we will be judged as to whether or not we have that faith and love when he returns. He warned us ahead of time.

Here's what most Christians tell others:
You do not need to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back, because salvation is not by works.

Here's what the Bible says you should be telling others:
2 Peter 1:10-11
make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

If you find out you're unable to confirm that you are saved you can get saved.
 
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Taken

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That's right. People who don't have works don't have faith.

No. People without Faith can Not DO Works Pleasing to God.

But we give false comfort to these people in the church by telling them it doesn't matter because salvation is not by works and that once you are saved you are always saved.

That IS The Truth.
But Not the WHOLE Truth.

"Faith" is a Gift (Given given a person, From God) FOR the person Hearing the Word of God.

THAT is called, ENLIGHTENMENT (hearing Gods Word) and TASTING. (A small experience of Gods Power).
A small measure of Faith, for a man's small measure of Hearing.

Heb 6:
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, (a measure of Faith) and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted "the good word" of God, and the "powers of the world to come"...
....(Powers to Come...is the Indwelling Spirit).

Wrong message.

One needs to know the Whole Truth Before one can Understand.

Hearing, is a man's Effort.
A church, like scripture itself teaches, bit by bit.

A parent can teach a child- (or not)
A church can teach- yet if a individual is not there to hear the message (or read it), He basis His understanding on what he does know, believe or understand.

There is an ORDER and WAY for a Reconcilliation BETWEEN:
A person AND God.


It is EXPRESSLY IMPORTANT to KNOW-
God Searches a man's HEART (for a man's TRUE word.)
* a child's Faith/word "for hearing"
* ANY persons Faith/word "for hearing"
* a man's Faith/word "for confessions"
* a man's Faith/word "for Spiritual communication" Via prayer TO God and TO the Lord God.

(1 Cor 2: 10, Rom 8: 26-27, Jer 17:10,
Eph 6:18, Phil 3:3)


• Measure OF Faith TO a person,
...Is Given BY God To a Person, For Hearing the Word of God.

THAT ^ is Stressed- OT & NT
For people TO HEAR-
***ESPECIALLY- LITTLE CHILDREN.***
Adults repeat in the ears of Children
OT- (Prov 22:6)
NT- (Matt 19:14)

(The Importance of THAT ^ Is THAT should a child die Young, That child's Faith will be Found by God who searches his Heart)

• Forgiveness OF Sin Against The Lord God, (For Disbelief);
...effected BY a man's spirit (Heartful Truth), Confession OF Repentence

• Salvation of ones soul; Given the man BY God
...effected BY a man's spirit (Heartful Truth)
Confession OF Belief.

• Baptism of Holy Spirit;
...effected BY a man's spirit (Heartful Truth)
Confession OF Belief, having Received Salvation...Then the man Receives Gods Gift(S)
OF...
* Man's Accepted bodily death Crucified With Christ.
...washing that Body in Jesus' Blood.
...Sanctification (set apart) of that body
...Care of that Body (kept with Christ)
* A new heart
* Gods Indwelling (Spirit OF TRUTH) IN man's new heart.
* Gods Spirit (Light) covering/overshadowing,
All of the man's Sin Against God (God no longer can SEE, or REMEMBERS).
* Gods Seed Planted in the man's Heart.
* Gods Seed Births the man's NEW spirit.
* that man;
...iS Then:
...Bodily Dead; Body Washed & sanctified
...Forgiven for All Sin Against God;
...All Sin Against God, Covered (Gods Light)
...Soul Saved;
...Spirit Quickened (Born Again)
...Completely Faith-FULL
...SEALED unto the Lord God.
...KEPT Faithful to the Lord God (BY Gods Indwelling Power)
...Man Lives Bodily IN Christ's (risen Body).
...Man IS Prepared (IN SPIRIT) TO:
* personally communicate With the Lord God.
* receive Gods Understanding OF His Word.
* ask God for Help
* Speak Gods Word for others TO Hear
* DO WORKS THAT GLORIFY GOD
* Be REEDEEMED, on the Day the Lord Claims what "IS HIS" TO Claim.

** That man IS Called:
FORGIVEN FOREVER
CONVERTED IN Christ (Saved & Born Again)
OVERCOME -(SIN /Darkness/the Wicked one)
FREE FROM SIN (unable to ever Again Disbelieve in the Lord God).

NOTICE- ^ That is An EFFECT Between ONE man AND the Lord God.

ONCE that IS Accomplished;
That IS Accomplished FOREVER...


Focus on Where a Confession OF a man Comes FROM...
It MUST BE FROM the man's HEART...period!
Confessions FROM a Man's MIND...are NOT Heard or Searched BY God!


Rom 8:
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Rom 10: (IF is the caveat)...
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

ONCE A Man IS CONVERTED...THAT can Never Become UNDONE.

Judgement- FOR Resurrection
Justification- For Resurrection
-The Lord GODS- Evidence-Book of Life

* A Saved and Born Again man WILL Be Bodily Resurected...IN AN immortal Glorified Body.
* An unsaved man WILL Be Bodily Resurrected ...IN Damnation.

A Man's Conversion...PREPARES the man TO DO WORKS

It (Conversion) does NOT FORCE a man to DO WORKS...it (Conversion) PREPARES a man to DO Works That Glorify God.

Judgement- For WORKS
Justification-FOR WORKS
Gods Evidence- Books accounting Treasures
(Matt 6:20)
* Rewards (Matt: 5:12)
• CONVERTED man- Rewards For Works that Glorified God.
• "All" Other Works Burned.

1 Cor 1:3
[13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
[14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

We need to tell them what Jesus said about being ready to meet him when he comes back.
THIS:
Rom 12:
[1] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

THAT ^ is Not a man's Works. THAT ^ is Effected BY a man's Conversion...OF and BY GODS WORKS.

Dead faith does not make a person prepared to meet him when he returns because faith without works is not faith.

Faith Confessed out of a man's MIND IS Dead, ( that IS without Profit.)
Works Without A Heartful Confession ARE DEAD WORKS ( that IS without Profit)


Profit UNTO A man, IS to BE Found IN Christ,
(Bodily Raised in Glory) When the Lord God Resurects Bodies of men.

Profit UNTO A man, IS to Be Found IN Christ Having Done WORKS that Glorify God.

Bottom Line- Once Converted- it is Forever.
(John 14:16) (Col 2:2)
Additionally- Works of All men Are Judged.
ONLY Works of A Converted man CAN Glorify God....and Those Works ARE Rewarded.
All Works OF ANY man that DID NOT Glorify God, shall Be Burned.
Regardless of a Converted man's WORKS, that DO or DO NOT Glorify God...His Conversion IS Secure...
(but he may lose Receiving Rewards.)

* Salvation is Gained- BY Conversion- Once and Forever.
* Reward is Gained- BY a Converted man, whose Works Glorify God.


Faith Without Works- is Faith that Does NOT DO Works TO Glorify God...and I thus "NOT Justified" TO Receive (WORK) Rewards.

James 2:
[24] Ye see then how that "by works a man is justified," and not by faith only. <---
BY Faith ONLY WHAT?

JUSTIFICATION!!

A man IS Justified ...For Conversion ONLY-
BY His Confession of Belief.

A man IS Justified ...For WORKS Rewards ONLY-
BY His Conversion AND DOING of Works that Glorify God.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Ferris Bueller

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No. People without Faith can Not DO Works Pleasing to God.
That's what I'm saying, lol.

The person who says they believe and are saved, but has no works to validate that claim to faith, don't really have faith. They are not ready to meet Jesus when he comes back. But the church tells them it's okay because salvation is not by works. They're telling them the wrong message instead of teaching them what Jesus said. Why doesn't the church teach what Jesus taught anymore?
 

Ferris Bueller

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1 Cor 1:3
[13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
[14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
This is a passage about rewards for ministry work (planting and building the field and building of God), not about personal holiness. If it was it would directly contradict what John said. He said the person with no works is NOT SAVED. But the church claims this passage teaches the opposite of John and that the person with no works IS saved.
 
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farouk

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Yes, but only a few words. Not enough to write home with.

I would like to learn several languages, including Hebrew and Greek. Wouldn't that be nice?
@Rudometkin FYI, here is a former CIA operative - a linguist - talking about how the CIA suffers to some extent from a lack of language expertise.

My take is, not to promote the CIA (I'm not even in the US), but to extrapolate how important a knowledge of languages can be in Christian testimony in so many ways.

(Language discussion from around 50.10 onwards: )

 
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Taken

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This is a passage about rewards for ministry work (planting and building the field and building of God), not about personal holiness. If it was it would directly contradict what John said. He said the person with no works is NOT SAVED. But the church claims this passage teaches the opposite of John and that the person with no works IS saved.

Receiving Salvation is one thing.
From God To a person.

Works is another thing.
From the Person for Gods Glory.

One has nothing to do with the Other.
It's two different parties; a man & God.
If a Saved man does or does not do Works to Glorify God...the man is still Saved.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Ferris Bueller

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If a Saved man does or does not do Works to Glorify God...the man is still Saved.
You are in direct contradiction of John. But I get it. I know that is what the church believes now. The church has been led astray by this teaching.
 

Taken

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You are in direct contradiction of John. But I get it. I know that is what the church believes now. The church has been led astray by this teaching.

2 Tim 1:
[9] Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works,
but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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What does that matter?
You either have faith and it shows, or you don't have faith and it shows.


And there Are kind, helpful, generous Atheists.

But yet if you know NOT they are an Atheist, you judge them by their Works?

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Ferris Bueller

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And there Are kind, helpful, generous Atheists.

But yet if you know NOT they are an Atheist, you judge them by their Works?
I don't judge them by their works. John does.

1 John 3:7
The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.

1 John 3:10
Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

Now explain your criticism in light of what John himself says.
 

Ferris Bueller

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2 Tim 1:
[9] Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works,
but according to his own purpose and grace,
which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.

Glory to God,
Taken
What does this have to do with Jesus' teaching that only people who do his will and have works to show for their faith will be saved when he returns? Are you able to explain how Jesus' teachings are not a works gospel?
 

justbyfaith

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If you don't have works of righteousness per Galatians 5:22-23 you do not have faith.

That is talking about fruit; not works.

Of course works can result out of such fruit as what is described there; but one can have love, for example, without it ever being exhibited to help someone as a work (for example, if there is a deathbed conversion).

Here's what the Bible says you should be telling others:
2 Peter 1:10-11
make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

What things (according to the context of that scripture)?

He said the person with no works is NOT SAVED.

I don't think so. For if he said that, he would be contradicting Paul.

If a Saved man does or does not do Works to Glorify God...the man is still Saved.

You are in direct contradiction of John.

Chapter and verse, please.

What does this have to do with Jesus' teaching that only people who do his will and have works to show for their faith will be saved when he returns? Are you able to explain how Jesus' teachings are not a works gospel?

I need to know which teaching of Jesus you are referring to in order to be able to better answer your question.