Mary, Queen of Heaven

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Enoch111

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I do not believe Non-Catholics hold a unfavorable view of Mary in any context.
Non-Catholics give Mary the mother of Jesus all the honor and respect which is due to her. But once you go past that and begin venerating Mary, you have a very serious problem, since that robs God of His honor and glory.
 

marks

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Mary as Queen of Heaven has nothing to do with the pagan cult of the queen of heaven condemned in Jeremiah but relates to her position of the mother of Jesus who is the King of Heaven (and sits on the throne of David) as explained in the OP.

Giving honour to the true Queen of Heaven is not wrong because some pagans 3,000 years ago gave honour to a false queen of heaven, just as worshipping the one true God is not wrong because some pagans 3,000 years ago worshipped false gods.
Hi Mungo,

I wasn't meaning to do that. I liked your OP, it really set things in order to me to show your POV.

How exactly do you give honor to the Queen of Heaven? I'm having a difficult time knowing exactly what that means. Is it just in how you think of Mary, remembering her in a special way? Something more concrete? I've never really understood more than some surface impressions, to tell the truth.

Much love!
 

Mungo

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you ERRORRED, for God is not biologial. and since it was a preternatural influence, meaning NO MAN AND NO WOMAN, then my affirmation of this conception was not biologial.

again see Post 28... (smile).

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Wrong Mary is a human being not God.
Her child is biological.
 

Mungo

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The following is what I was responding to:



You said: "Jesus kingdom is the Davidic kingdom and has the characteristics of the Davidic kingdom. One of these characteristics is the role of king’s mother." As you have said, it is called the "Davidic kingdom." The king's mother in that kingdom would be David's mother!

The Davidic kingdom continued after David. The line is traced through scripture.
He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, (Lk 1:32).

I also addressed the fact that Solomon's mother is not mentioned in Jesus' genealogy by name. So...what you're saying doesn't square with scripture. The idea of a heavenly "queen mother" is a romantic idea, but it's not scriptural.

Why does Solomon's mother have to be mentioned in then lineage of Jesus? That is pointing out he descendance from David. I see no relevance in your point.

I believe the points I made in the OP are Biblical and relevant. Have you any answer to them?

And to call Mary, the mother of our Lord, the "Queen of Heaven" is not a compliment to her at all since that title was used in the Old Testament for a false goddess. It's immoral to tie Mary with the goddess Asherah, called the "Queen of Heaven."

From GotQuestions.com:

The phrase queen of heaven appears in two passages of the Bible, both in the book of Jeremiah. The first passage deals with the things the Israelites were doing that provoked the Lord to anger. Entire families were involved in idolatry. The children gathered wood, and the men used it to build altars to worship false gods. The women were engaged in kneading dough and baking cakes of bread for the “Queen of Heaven” (Jeremiah 7:18). This title referred to Ishtar, an Assyrian and Babylonian goddess also called Ashtoreth and Astarte by various other groups. She was thought to be the wife of the false god Baal, also known as Molech. The motivation of women to worship Ashtoreth stemmed from her reputation as a fertility goddess, and, as the bearing of children was greatly desired among women of that era, worship of this “queen of heaven” was rampant among pagan civilizations. Sadly, it became popular among the Israelites as well.

The second passage that refers to the queen of heaven is Jeremiah 44:17-25, where Jeremiah is giving the people the word of the Lord which God has spoken to him. He reminds the people that their disobedience and idolatry has caused the Lord to be very angry with them and to punish them with calamity. Jeremiah warns them that greater punishments await if they do not repent. They reply that they have no intentions of giving up their worship of idols, promising to continue pouring out drink offerings to the queen of heaven, Ashtoreth, and even going so far as to credit her with the peace and prosperity they once enjoyed because of God’s grace and mercy.​

As I have pointed out before
Mary as Queen of Heaven has nothing to do with the pagan cult of the queen of heaven condemned in Jeremiah but relates to her position of the mother of Jesus who is the King of Heaven (and sits on the throne of David) as explained in the OP.

Giving honour to the true Queen of Heaven is not wrong because some pagans 3,000 years ago gave honour to a false queen of heaven, just as worshipping the one true God is not wrong because some pagans 3,000 years ago worshipped false gods.
[/QUOTE]
 

Mungo

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Since there is no true Queen of Heaven in the Bible, you have a very serious problem. There is only the King of Heaven seated on His throne.

Then point out where I went wrong in the OP rather than just going into denial.
 

Mungo

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Non-Catholics give Mary the mother of Jesus all the honor and respect which is due to her. But once you go past that and begin venerating Mary, you have a very serious problem, since that robs God of His honor and glory.

No it doesn't
 

Mungo

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Hi Mungo,

I wasn't meaning to do that. I liked your OP, it really set things in order to me to show your POV.

How exactly do you give honor to the Queen of Heaven? I'm having a difficult time knowing exactly what that means. Is it just in how you think of Mary, remembering her in a special way? Something more concrete? I've never really understood more than some surface impressions, to tell the truth.

Much love!

Hi,

We remeber her is a special wa on particular days which celebrate certain aspects of her - Mother of God, Queen of Heaven for example. We ask her for her intercession and help.

There is an excellent article on this by Scott Hahn, a convert to Catholicism - Honouring Mary, Imitating Christ
Blessings.
 
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101G

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Wrong Mary is a human being not God.
Her child is biological.
this is what I been trying to tell you all along. mary is just a woman, and the flesh she bore is just that human flesh, but what was in that Flesh was not biological... (smile), man oh man, when will they ever learn.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

Mungo

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this is what I been trying to tell you all along. mary is just a woman, and the flesh she bore is just that human flesh, but what was in that Flesh was not biological... (smile), man oh man, when will they ever learn.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

The flesh she bore is human flesh you say. Exactly, Jesus is human.
But then you say that flesh is not biological.That makes no sense at all.
 

101G

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The flesh she bore is human flesh you say. Exactly, Jesus is human.
But then you say that flesh is not biological.That makes no sense at all.
boy oh boy. Mungo is your spirit in your flesh is flesh? no, so the body is not the spirit that came from heaven. my God how hard is it. are you really thinking?

and two, are you really reading what I said? listen to what I said,
and the flesh she bore is just that human flesh, but what was in that Flesh was not biological
well?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

Mungo

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boy oh boy. Mungo is your spirit in your flesh is flesh? no, so the body is not the spirit that came from heaven. my God how hard is it. are you really thinking?

and two, are you really reading what I said? listen to what I said,
well?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

No, still makes no sense.
 

101G

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No, still makes no sense.
You need to go on Facebook or tweeter if you looking for no nonesense conversation .. because that Mary queen of heaven is DEAD.

so either go and study with the Holy Ghost, or as said go on facebook or tweeter.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

Mungo

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You need to go on Facebook or tweeter if you looking for no nonesense conversation .. because that Mary queen of heaven is DEAD.

so either go and study with the Holy Ghost, or as said go on facebook or tweeter.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

You stilol can't explain what you mean by your nonsense statement that "the flesh she bore is just that human flesh, but what was in that Flesh was not biological" What do you mean by the highlighted part?

Mary is alive in heaven.
 

Marymog

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If you read through the book of Jeremiah, I believe you will come across multiple occasions wherein the Israelites burned incense to the queen of heaven and this was condemned by the LORD.
Hi JBF,

Who is the woman spoken of in Revelation that is clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars?
 

Marymog

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........

a. Mary is not the biological Mother of the Lord Jesus. meaning she have no claim as a Queen. now that should end that right there.

so this should put an end to this false notion that Mary is the Lord Jesus birth Mother, biologically. no, she's only a surrogate mother birth mother to the flesh that the Lord Jesus came in.......

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Hi Saboteur,

But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Bible Study Mary
 

Philip James

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How exactly do you give honor to the Queen of Heaven? I'm having a difficult time knowing exactly what that means. Is it just in how you think of Mary, remembering her in a special way? Something more concrete? I've never really understood more than some surface impressions, to tell the truth


Peace be with you!
 
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Renniks

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Mary as Queen of Heaven has nothing to do with the pagan cult of the queen of heaven condemned in Jeremiah but relates to her position of the mother of Jesus who is the King of Heaven (and sits on the throne of David) as explained in the OP.

Giving honour to the true Queen of Heaven is not wrong because some pagans 3,000 years ago gave honour to a false queen of heaven, just as worshipping the one true God is not wrong because some pagans 3,000 years ago worshipped false gods.
No it's just radically unbiblical... Patching verses together to have nothing to do with Mary, to come to a false conclusion.
 

CharismaticLady

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Mary as Queen of Heaven seems to have been disparaged a lot recently but I don't think there has been a detailed explanation of the Catholic position on this topic. So here goes.

Catholic Teaching
There is no formal dogma that Mary is Queen of Heaven but Many Popes have used this tile of Mary, including Pope Pius XII who wrote an Encyclical Ad Caeli Reginam in which he proclaimed a feast day in honour of Mary as Queen of Heaven.

Introduction
“What the Catholic faith believes about Mary is based on what it believes about Christ, and what it teaches about Mary illumines in turn its faith in Christ.” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, para 487)

The Davidic King
Let us therefore start with Jesus.

God promised David his throne (i.e. his kingdom) would last for ever (2Sam 7:11-16). At the Annunciation the Angel says to Mary that her son (Jesus) “will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father, and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.” (Lk 1:32-33). Jesus kingdom is the Davidic kingdom and has the characteristics of the Davidic kingdom. One of these characteristics is the role of king’s mother.

#1 In a monarchical system a woman may have the title Queen for one of three reasons.
We can see examples of this in both the recent history in the UK and in the Bible. I will give examples from the Bible.

1. The woman is a ruler in her own right. For example the Queen of Sheba (see 1Kg 10)

2. The woman is the wife of the reigning king. In the book of Esther, King Ahasuerus had many concubines, but gave one of them the honour of being designated Queen, first Vashti, but then Esther.

3. The woman is the mother of the reigning king. In the kingdom of David the king might have multiple wives, so the practice was to give the title Queen Mother to the mother of the king. This was instituted by Solomon the son of David.

We see this first established by Solomon when he greets Bathsheba who comes to ask a favour. He pays her homage and sits her on a throne at his right hand (a position of honour) (1Kg 2:19)

After Solomon the kingdom splits into the Northern kingdom (Israel) and the Southern kingdom (Judah). After this there were 20 kings in Israel before the deportation to Assyria. For none of these is the mother of the king mentioned.

There were 19 kings in Judah after Solomon before they were deported to Babylon. In 17 of these the king’s mother is given, usually after introducing the king, with the words “his mother’s name was ……”. This in itself shows that the king’s mother was a significant figure.

The mother of the king was referred to as the queen mother (1Kg15:13 (& 2Chr 15:16), 2Kg 10:13, Jer 13:18, Jer 29:2.). Note the Hebrew is gebirah – queen. The KJV just says queen but more modern translations say queen mother as she is the mother of the king.

#2 This role of queen mother was an established role in the kingdom.
“He also removed Maacah his mother from being queen mother because she had an abominable image made for Asherah” (1Kg 15:13)

#3 The queen mother sat on a throne at the right of her son
“So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adonijah. And the king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne, and had a seat [throne] brought for the king's mother; and she sat on his right.”(1Kg 2:19)

#4 The queen mother had authority.
Firstly she sat on the right of the king which is the position of authority.

Then there is one particularly interesting woman Athalia, who was the mother of Ahazier the sixth king of Judah. After her son was killed, she killed all the royal family (except one baby who was hidden from her) and assumed power in her own right. She ruled as Queen for six years until she was killed and her grandson Joash installed as king at the age of seven. She would not have been able to do that if she was not in a recognised position of authority to start with.

We can also see the important position of the queen mother in Jeremiah 13:18-20
“Say to the king and the queen mother: ‘Take a lowly seat, for your beautiful crown has come down from your head. The cities of the Negeb are shut up, with none to open them; all Judah is taken into exile, wholly taken into exile. "Lift up your eyes and see those who come from the north. Where is the flock that was given you, your beautiful flock?’”

Three points to note here.
Firstly Jeremiah is told to address both the king and queen mother. They are both to be punished by God.

Secondly both the king and queen mother are to come down from their thrones and to lose their crowns. They are both royalty in the kingdom.

Thirdly God says to them: “Where is the flock that was given you, your beautiful flock?
They are both responsible for the flock, the sheep – i.e. the people that God entrusted to them. God had given the queen mother responsibilities for the people, not just the king. That does not mean that the queen mother was equal in authority to the king. The authority she had was derived from and under the king. She was still subject to him.

#5 Jesus is the true Davidic king with an eternal kingdom. That kingdom is based in Heaven.
Jesus answered, ‘My kingdom does not belong to this world.’” (Jn 18:36)

“Then I saw the heavens opened, and there was a white horse; its rider was (called) “Faithful and True.” He judges and wages war in righteousness…….. He has a name written on his cloak and on his thigh, “King of kings and Lord of lords.” (Rev 19:11-16)

#6 Mary is the mother of Jesus As the mother of the King of Heaven, Mary has the right to the title Queen of Heaven.
As such she has some responsibility for the flock.

We also read in Revelation:
"A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars." (Rev 12:1).

This can taken to be a reference to Mary – “and she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron” (Rev 12:5), which is Jesus. She has on her head a crown – as do queens.

Psalm 45
Psalm 45 is a prophecy of the Messiah’s reign and is addressed to the king and line 9 says: at you right hand stands the queen in gold of Ophir. We have seen that in the Davidic kingdom the queen sits, or stands, at the king’s right hand (1Kg 2:19).

[Also in Rev 21:1 the woman is clothed with the sun (i.e golden coloured) just as the queen here is clothed in gold of Ophir.]

[There is another interesting line a little later, verse 17:
I will cause your name to be celebrated in all generations; therefore the peoples will praise you for ever and ever.


Compare that to Lk 1:48 when Mary said: For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed.]

Elizabeth
Finally there is a hint of Mary being the gebirah in Lk 1:43 when Elizabeth filled with the Holy Spirit exclaims “And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” Elizabeth has recognised that the child in Mary’s womb is God, the promised Messiah, the Son of David and that Mary is therefore the gebirah. She is astonished that such an important person should come to her.

I doubt that what was done in the Catholic and Orthodox Church can ever be undone. But you should know the truth. The origination of the title, queen of heaven, is pagan. When Christianity became the state religion, and paganism was outlawed, many things from paganism were brought into Christianity to help make the transition into the church less foreign for the pagans. Thus, besides robes, temples, and hats for the priests, the mystery religion of Babylon, the goddess and her godchild, were turned into Mary and Jesus.

Jeremiah 7:18
The children gather wood, the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods, that they may provoke Me to anger.

Jeremiah 44:17
But we will certainly do whatever has gone out of our own mouth, to burn incense to the queen of heaven and pour out drink offerings to her, as we have done, we and our fathers, our kings and our princes, in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem. For then we had plenty of food, were well-off, and saw no trouble.

Jeremiah 44:18
But since we stopped burning incense to the queen of heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, we have lacked everything and have been consumed by the sword and by famine.”

Jeremiah 44:19
The women also said, “And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven and poured out drink offerings to her, did we make cakes for her, to worship her, and pour out drink offerings to her without our husbands’ permission?