Why are YOU LYING?
I said no such thing!
We are done. You flat out Lying to pretend that supports your position IS Cheap and Wicked!
Hell Fire
- Thread starter kcnalp
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Why are YOU LYING?
I said no such thing!
We are done. You flat out Lying to pretend that supports your position IS Cheap and Wicked!
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
@Taken
So, you start off with a logical fallacy, a straw man, about the Bible contain judgments of Israel. Of course it does. But that's not what is at issue. What is at issue is whether or not the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man is a judgment against Israel, the priesthood, or not.
I didn't say you don't consider evidence. I said you didn't consider any evidence from me. How do I know that? Because I hadn't given any yet and you rejected the offer.
I never suggested that you follow me. You claimed that the parable was about what happens to the dead. I said it wasn't and offered to go through it with you. You accepted that offer, however, when I offered the actual material you suddenly had no interest. I'm not surprised, that's one reason why I didn't write a long explanation. It's been my experience that many Christians aren't interested in putting in the time necessary to properly understand the Scriptures.
Firstly, I didn't call you a liar. Secondly, it's called study, serious study. It's called exegesis. It's called looking at the original languages.
It's easily proven. Gen 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.1 (Gen. 2:7 KJV)
Moses records the creation of man. The man consists of the dust of the earth. God breathed something from Himself into the man and the man "BECAME" a living soul. This verse show us plainly that the flesh body of Adam became a living soul. Thus a living soul must have a body. It tells us that a living soul consists of two things. The body and the breath or spirit of God. Those two together make a living soul. So, if there is no body, there is no soul. If there is no breath or spirit of God, there is no soul. So, souls cannot depart the body and live on when the body dies.
I didn't say my information comes from an internet link. I suggested a link to some audios because it goes into more detail than I could on a forum. For me to write out all the info would take many posts. If you were serious about hearing what I had to say you could have listened to the audios as a starting point. You would receive the info much more quickly listening to the audios than you would having with me writing out post after post after post when I had time.
The Bible comes from God, your understanding of it comes from your mind, your preconceptions, your life experience, the understanding of the translator(s) who translated the version you read, etc. Your understanding of the Bible comes from God only if you are understanding it correctly. If you're understanding it wrongly then it's not what God said, thus it's not from God. People would do well to always question their own understanding as it's influenced by their preconceptions, life experiences, etc.
Since you're not interested in the info maybe you could answer the question I asked you before. If as you say the parable is about what happens to the dead, how does that fit the context of what Jesus was saying at that event? He was at a feast. Why was He teaching this to the Pharisees and not the disciples? Why before starting this parable did He give the parable of the Unjust Steward? Why did He say the Law and the prophets were until John? Why did He say, He who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery?
What about the details of the Parable? Why does the Rich Man have five brothers. If as you say this is about what happens to the dead, why does it matter how many brothers the Rich Man had? Is Jesus just using filler material to make the story more interesting? If as you say it's about what happens to the dead, why does He say that the Rich Man was dressed in purple and fine Linen? What would that have to do with the dead? What about Lazarus, why did Jesus say he was covered with sores and that the dogs licked those sores? Why is the poor man named Lazarus? Is Jesus just dressing up the story or could it be that these details are important to the story? Jesus gave all of these details that, if the story is about what happens to the dead, are irrelevant.
What about Abraham, what does he have to do with it? If this is about what happens to the dead, are we to conclude that the rich will burn in torment and the poor will go to Abraham's bosom or be saved? Will a rich believer burn while an unbelieving poor person is comforted? Do all rich people burn in torment? I could go on an on with the questions. The last question is, will you consider these or sweep them under the rug?
So, you start off with a logical fallacy, a straw man, about the Bible contain judgments of Israel. Of course it does. But that's not what is at issue. What is at issue is whether or not the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man is a judgment against Israel, the priesthood, or not.
I didn't say you don't consider evidence. I said you didn't consider any evidence from me. How do I know that? Because I hadn't given any yet and you rejected the offer.
I never suggested that you follow me. You claimed that the parable was about what happens to the dead. I said it wasn't and offered to go through it with you. You accepted that offer, however, when I offered the actual material you suddenly had no interest. I'm not surprised, that's one reason why I didn't write a long explanation. It's been my experience that many Christians aren't interested in putting in the time necessary to properly understand the Scriptures.
Firstly, I didn't call you a liar. Secondly, it's called study, serious study. It's called exegesis. It's called looking at the original languages.
It's easily proven. Gen 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.1 (Gen. 2:7 KJV)
Moses records the creation of man. The man consists of the dust of the earth. God breathed something from Himself into the man and the man "BECAME" a living soul. This verse show us plainly that the flesh body of Adam became a living soul. Thus a living soul must have a body. It tells us that a living soul consists of two things. The body and the breath or spirit of God. Those two together make a living soul. So, if there is no body, there is no soul. If there is no breath or spirit of God, there is no soul. So, souls cannot depart the body and live on when the body dies.
I didn't say my information comes from an internet link. I suggested a link to some audios because it goes into more detail than I could on a forum. For me to write out all the info would take many posts. If you were serious about hearing what I had to say you could have listened to the audios as a starting point. You would receive the info much more quickly listening to the audios than you would having with me writing out post after post after post when I had time.
The Bible comes from God, your understanding of it comes from your mind, your preconceptions, your life experience, the understanding of the translator(s) who translated the version you read, etc. Your understanding of the Bible comes from God only if you are understanding it correctly. If you're understanding it wrongly then it's not what God said, thus it's not from God. People would do well to always question their own understanding as it's influenced by their preconceptions, life experiences, etc.
Since you're not interested in the info maybe you could answer the question I asked you before. If as you say the parable is about what happens to the dead, how does that fit the context of what Jesus was saying at that event? He was at a feast. Why was He teaching this to the Pharisees and not the disciples? Why before starting this parable did He give the parable of the Unjust Steward? Why did He say the Law and the prophets were until John? Why did He say, He who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery?
What about the details of the Parable? Why does the Rich Man have five brothers. If as you say this is about what happens to the dead, why does it matter how many brothers the Rich Man had? Is Jesus just using filler material to make the story more interesting? If as you say it's about what happens to the dead, why does He say that the Rich Man was dressed in purple and fine Linen? What would that have to do with the dead? What about Lazarus, why did Jesus say he was covered with sores and that the dogs licked those sores? Why is the poor man named Lazarus? Is Jesus just dressing up the story or could it be that these details are important to the story? Jesus gave all of these details that, if the story is about what happens to the dead, are irrelevant.
What about Abraham, what does he have to do with it? If this is about what happens to the dead, are we to conclude that the rich will burn in torment and the poor will go to Abraham's bosom or be saved? Will a rich believer burn while an unbelieving poor person is comforted? Do all rich people burn in torment? I could go on an on with the questions. The last question is, will you consider these or sweep them under the rug?
Yep. Scripture prevails.
Mark 9:
[43] And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
LOL...^^ That is funny.
A "logical fallacy, strawman"...and then you agree- LOL.
And no that Is NOT what I started with.
I started with saying, give your rendition you Offered.
Then I disagreed with you.
That's one tho
God doesn't make a body living with a soul. He makes it living with breath or spirit. A body with the breath or spirit of God becomes a living soul. You are correct that it is God's that gives life. It is His breath or spirit that is in man that does that. However, that breath or spirit in man is not man, it is God. The spirit or breath in man is not man.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Which means that you believe the unrighteous are going to be burned in hell fire, right? and you believe what you say is the soul will be burned there and you believe that's not torture? If you truly believe that's not torture then that's just sick and depraved to think burning anyone while still alive isn't torture.
So, you ignored all that I wrote. No I didn't agree. If you read it carefully I pointed out that you tried to shift the focus. The issue isn't whether or not the Bible has judgments against Israel, it's whether or not the parable is one.
Sure it is. Read your post. I didn't give a rendition. I merely stated my contention. I made no effort to establish my contention. So, you rejected it without hearing any evidence whatsoever. You didn't answer any of the questions I posed which suggests to me that you can't back up what you believe.
Jesus said,
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. (Matt. 13:10-16 KJV)
34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. (Matt. 13:34-35 KJV)
Deflecting? Like you just did?
Do you fear God? God said those who don't fear Him are "fools".
Yeah, I believe JW's TWIST the "Hell" out of the Bible. At least you try, but it's still there many times.
NWT says you're wrong.
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
I will ask again and of course I doubt if you will give a straight answer. When you die will you "cease to exist"?
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BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
When a person does, which includes me, if the True God has judged that person worthy of a resurrection will be remembered by the True God or remain in his memory until the True God scheduled time of the resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous.
So you are special to God and have an exemption from your comment "Ceasing to exist is exactly what death means"?
Those who will be "tormented day and night forever and ever" as even your NWT says will wish they didn't exist. Belief in the "eternal fire" that Jesus taught us is not required for residency therein.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
I don't know why you're saying I'm thinking I'm special, when what I said in post # 437 was talking about everyone not just me.
So you will "cease to exist". Bye bye. And there won't be anyone in Heaven. "Death means, cease to exist" is insane!
So it seems that all you who reject eternal Hell fire also do not fear God.
Proverbs 1:7 (NKJV)
7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction.
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No.
Post #361
It's a description of Hell at the time Jesus was on Earth.
Saved & unsaved Living souls (of body's dead & buried.),
Tells us about souls abilities out of Body; speaking, Hearing, feeling, taste, seeing.
One of the things about Jesus' parable (His Doctrine), is to reveal things NOT before Known.
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