Not faith alone?

[brightfame52]

However, if standing in grace is like a house; and we gain access into that house with faith as a key to the door of the house (Jesus Christ Himself); you must realize that I am not dwelling in the house unless I have taken the key of faith, put it in the keyhole of the door, and entered the house.

So I am not going to stand in grace apart from having gained access to it by faith.

Like I said those under grace are just that prior to faith. They're subsequently given faith to access the grace they are already standing in.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

We will indeed be judged by our words, but it's quite a stretch to call our words "works".

Romans 3:31
31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law (by this faith).

As an example, if you did Leviticus 19:11-18 you would be doing the works of the law. You would be upholding the law by your faith.

11“ ‘Do not steal.

“ ‘Do not lie.

“ ‘Do not deceive one another.

12“ ‘Do not swear falsely by my name and so profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.

13“ ‘Do not defraud or rob your neighbor.

“ ‘Do not hold back the wages of a hired worker overnight.

14“ ‘Do not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block in front of the blind, but fear your God. I am the Lord.

15“ ‘Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.

16“ ‘Do not go about spreading slander among your people.

“ ‘Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor’s life. I am the Lord.

17“ ‘Do not hate a fellow Israelite in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in their guilt.

18“ ‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord.

 

[kcnalp]

Romans 3:31
31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law (by this faith).

As an example, if you did Leviticus 19:11-18 you would be doing the works of the law. You would be upholding the law by your faith.

11“ ‘Do not steal.

“ ‘Do not lie.

“ ‘Do not deceive one another.

12“ ‘Do not swear falsely by my name and so profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.

13“ ‘Do not defraud or rob your neighbor.

“ ‘Do not hold back the wages of a hired worker overnight.

14“ ‘Do not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block in front of the blind, but fear your God. I am the Lord.

15“ ‘Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.

16“ ‘Do not go about spreading slander among your people.

“ ‘Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor’s life. I am the Lord.

17“ ‘Do not hate a fellow Israelite in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in their guilt.

18“ ‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord.

I'm not under the Law of Moses. Are you saying you are under the Law of Moses?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

He might have a difficult time. lol

It doesn't look like he had a difficult time doing wrong at all.........

Luke 23:39
39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”

 

[kcnalp]

It doesn't look like he had a difficult time doing wrong at all.........

Luke 23:39
39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”

So you are saying words are works? Scripture please.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I'm not under the Law of Moses. Are you saying you are under the Law of Moses?

The law of Moses can not make me sin anymore. And I no longer misunderstand the law to be a source of righteousness. So, no, I am no longer under the law. But I did get saved to uphold the righteousness of the law. If you and a whole lot of other people would read the Bible for yourself instead of being spoon fed the slanted truths of spiritually dead denominations and leaders in the church you'd see that faith upholds the law but, also, there are things in the law that don't have to be done anymore because they are made obsolete because they are upheld by faith in Christ's death and resurrection. The law is the righteousness that faith upholds (Romans 3:31).You probably don't believe that because you have been told over and over that you don't have to keep the law and so you've never read it for yourself to any meaningful degree and skip over the NT verses that talk about it, like Romans 3:31.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So you are saying words are works? Scripture please.

I already posted it twice. Here it is again..........

Leviticus
11“ ‘Do not steal.

“ ‘Do not lie.

“ ‘Do not deceive one another.

12“ ‘Do not swear falsely by my name and so profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.

13“ ‘Do not defraud or rob your neighbor.

“ ‘Do not hold back the wages of a hired worker overnight.

14“ ‘Do not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block in front of the blind, but fear your God. I am the Lord.

15“ ‘Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.

16“ ‘Do not go about spreading slander among your people.

“ ‘Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor’s life. I am the Lord.

17“ ‘Do not hate a fellow Israelite in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in their guilt.

18“ ‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord.

 

[kcnalp]

The law of Moses can not make me sin anymore. And I no longer misunderstand the law to be a source of righteousness. So, no, I am no longer under the law. But I did get saved to uphold the righteousness of the law. If you and a whole lot of other people would read the Bible for yourself instead of being spoon fed the slanted truths of spiritually dead denominations and leaders in the church you'd see that faith upholds the law but, also, there are things in the law that don't have to be done anymore because they are made obsolete because they are upheld by faith in Christ's death and resurrection. The law is the righteousness that faith upholds (Romans 3:31).You probably don't believe that because you have been told over and over that you don't have to keep the law and so you've never read it for yourself to any meaningful degree and skip over the NT verses that talk about it, like Romans 3:31.

Ok, I read the Bible. Here's what I found.
"not of works"
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So you are saying words are works? Scripture please.

James 1:26
26Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless.

 

[kcnalp]

I already posted it twice. Here it is again..........

Leviticus
11“ ‘Do not steal.

“ ‘Do not lie.

“ ‘Do not deceive one another.

12“ ‘Do not swear falsely by my name and so profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.

13“ ‘Do not defraud or rob your neighbor.

“ ‘Do not hold back the wages of a hired worker overnight.

14“ ‘Do not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block in front of the blind, but fear your God. I am the Lord.

15“ ‘Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.

16“ ‘Do not go about spreading slander among your people.

“ ‘Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor’s life. I am the Lord.

17“ ‘Do not hate a fellow Israelite in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in their guilt.

18“ ‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord.

You're preaching the Law of Moses.

 

[kcnalp]

James 1:26
26Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless.

Doesn't say words are "works".

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Ok, I read the Bible. Here's what I found.
"not of works"
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Everybody knows this. Why does the church keep harping on this? Now read—really read—this favorite passage of the anti-works movement in the church.....

Ephesians 2:
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

There it is in plain sight. We got saved to WORK, not rest in faith that is alone. Faith that is alone is not the faith that saves apart from the merit of works. Faith does justify apart from works, but the faith that justifies apart from works WORKS. If it doesn't, then you are not born again. The person who is born again can't continue in their sinful life. That's what the Bible says. The church doesn't believe that, even when they see the verse that says that in the Bible, because they have been told by a corrupted church that faith doesn't have to ever work for it to be saving faith.

 

[kcnalp]

Everybody knows this. Why does the church keep harping on this? Now read—really read—this favorite passage of the anti-works movement in the church.....

I guess the church "keeps harping" on this because people who preach works salvation.

Ephesians 2:
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

There it is in plain sight. We got saved to WORK, not rest in faith that is alone. Faith that is alone is not the faith that saves apart from the merit of works. Faith does justify apart from works, but the faith that justifies apart from works WORKS. If it doesn't, then you are not born again. The person who is born again can't continue in their sinful life. That's what the Bible says. The church doesn't believe that, even when they see the verse that says that in the Bible, because they have been told by a corrupted church that faith doesn't have to ever work for it to be saving faith.

I like this part, "not by works" that you quoted.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I like this part, "not by works" that you quoted.

But you don't like the "to do good works" part. Only born again people are drawn to that part. For born again people that becomes a heartfelt passion, not a drudgery and a burden.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I guess the church "keeps harping" on this because people who preach works salvation.

No, you keep hearing it as people saying works earn salvation.

 

[kcnalp]

I'm not going to play any games with you. You aren't born again. You need to be born again. IF you're not upholding the righteousness of the law by faith in Christ then you will be condemned by the law and are not born again. There are things in the law you don't have to do anymore because they have been fulfilled by Christ's sacrifice, but the rest of it you do have to do because that's what faith in Christ does. IF you're not doing them you do not have faith in Christ. You still have yet to be born again.

Notice those 2 BIG "IF's"?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So, you don't have proof that we are saved by works, and that makes me lost?

Works do not earn salvation. Works are the proof you are saved. Faith without works is not faith.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Notice those 2 BIG "IF's"?

So let's settle it. Are you upholding the law by your faith?

 

[kcnalp]

But you don't like the "to do good works" part.

That's a lie.

Only born again people are drawn to that part. For born again people that becomes a heartfelt passion, not a drudgery and a burden

My friend, if you have done as many "good works" as I have you're doing well.

 

[kcnalp]

No, you keep hearing it as people saying works earn salvation.

Sounds like what YOU are preaching.