Not faith alone?
- Thread starter theefaith
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Again I'm not using you in this matter. If you want to discuss you frankly I'm not interested.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Who's talking about obtaining salvation? We're talking about the fact that it's impossible to be saved without works. Real faith does real things, or else it's not real faith.
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Well of course you're not interested. I don't fit into your Calvin shaped box. Just as Cornelius did not fit into Peter's preconceived ideas of salvation. At least Peter had the spiritual insight to adapt his understanding to the undeniable circumstances before him instead of bearing down in spiritual pride on the way he was sure it had to be.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
He didn't do what the other thief did. If you do not think that is not defined as works read the law.
Without a central authority there can be no unity of the spirit, no obedience to the faith!
God - Christ - Peter - the apostles - the apostles successors - the people
The nature of authority is hierarchy!
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Lately I agree, but he could be invalid
Especially if he teach contrary to what Peter and the apostles and their successors have taught for 2000 yrs
Thee faith is one eph 4:5 Jude 1:3
Here’s The Who enchilada!
Baptism!
Old Testament pre-figures of baptism.
Psalm 36:9
For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light.
Song of Solomon 4:15
A fountain of gardens, a well of living waters, and streams from Lebanon.
Isaiah 41:18
I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water.
Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put withi n you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
New Testament
Matt 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
( Disciples by baptism not faith alone)
Mk 1:4
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Mark 16:16
he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!
Jn 1: 11
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (Baptism)
John 1:26
John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)
John 2:6
And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)
John3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)
John 3:22
After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism)
John 4:4
When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.
John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Act 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.(Baptism)
Acts 8:36
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Gal 4:19
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (baptism)
Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: see Ez 36
1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark and the church there is no salvation!)
So, if a person is paralyzed and can't even speak, but is aware, he/she can't be saved with ZERO works?
That is Calvinistic philosophy.
The reality is that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand...
We do not enter into grace first.
Not even the Pope? Or, a Cardinal? Or, a Catholic Priest?
It is a valid point that if we are given a talent to go and trade with, and then hide it in the sand, we will be counted as a lazy and slothful servant and may even be cast into outer darkness.
But I like your point also. It proves the point of Ephesians 2:8-9 quite nicely.
yes there is one church one body of Christ Matt 16:18
John 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be onefold, and one shepherd.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
It is by grace (not grace + merit) that we are saved through faith in Christ alone (not faith + works). It's not hard to understand. You seem to be obsessed with water baptism. Do you attend the church of Christ? That would explain a lot.
Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."
If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the one requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.
John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
False. Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, (faith and baptism? NO simply faith) we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith (and baptism? NO) into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
He did not do wrong.
Romans 13:10
10Love does no wrong to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
That person won't have ZERO works.
Romans 13:10
10Love does no wrong to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
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