Not faith alone?

[kcnalp]

So let's settle it. Are you upholding the law by your faith?

I'm not under the Law of Moses. I have the New Covenant.
Hebrews 8:13 (NKJV)
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete.

Do you even know what Galatians says about the Law preachers?
Galatians 3:10 (NKJV)
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse;

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You're preaching the Law of Moses.

If you mean preaching the law of Moses this way, then, yes, I am preaching the law of Moses.....

Romans 3:31
31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

But if you mean preaching the law this way, then I am NOT preaching the law of Moses because I'm not saying the law makes a person righteous......

Romans 3:20
20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law

Christians uphold the requirements of the law, but we're definitely not made righteous by doing the requirements of the law. Just because the law doesn't make you righteous doesn't mean you don't have to do it to be saved. Real faith in Christ does real works of the law. If your faith doesn't uphold the law you do not have the faith that justifies apart from the law.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I'm not under the Law of Moses. I have the New Covenant.
Hebrews 8:13 (NKJV)
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete.

You do not know what this means. You think it means you can lie, cheat, and steal but as long as you have faith in Christ you're good for the day of judgment and will go into the kingdom. Little knowing that if you really did have faith in Christ you wouldn't be lying, cheating, and stealing (or whatever other sin the law says not to do).

Do you even know what Galatians says about the Law preachers?
Galatians 3:10 (NKJV)
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse;

Since I'm not saying that you are justified (made righteous) by the works of the law I am not under any curse of the law. It is the person who is still breaking the law of Moses that is under the curse of the law. Faith in Christ sets you free from the curse of the law because faith in Christ is how you stop being in violation of it.

 

[kcnalp]

If you mean preaching the law of Moses this way, then, yes, I am preaching the law of Moses.....

You were preaching Leviticus

Romans 3:31
31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

But if you mean preaching the law this way, then I am NOT preaching the law of Moses because I'm not saying the law makes a person righteous......

Romans 3:20
20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law

So then, why are you preaching the Law of Moses / Leviticus to Christians who have the New Covenant?

Christians uphold the requirements of the law, but we're definitely not made righteous by doing the requirements of the law. Just because the law doesn't make you righteous doesn't mean you don't have to do it to be saved. Real faith in Christ does real works of the law. If your faith doesn't uphold the law you do not have the faith that justifies apart from the law.

Christians "uphold the Law" by FAITH, not literally. Otherwise you would have to execute a lot of folks who work weekends.

 

[kcnalp]

You do not know what this means.

I know what "obsolete" means. Do you?

You think it means you can lie, cheat, and steal but as long as you have faith in Christ you're good for the day of judgment and will go into the kingdom. Little knowing that if you really did have faith in Christ you wouldn't be lying, cheating, and stealing (or whatever other sin the law says not to do).

You just lied again.

Since I'm not saying that you are justified (made righteous) by the works of the law I am not under any curse of the law. It is the person who is still breaking the law of Moses that is under the curse of the law. Faith in Christ sets you free from the curse of the law because faith in Christ is how you stop being in violation of it.

You're preaching the Law of Moses but you're not under the Law of Moses? I think you're greatly confused. Have you ever read Galatians?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Sounds like what YOU are preaching.

That's what I said. It only sounds like that's what I'm saying. Most Christians today can only hear the argument for works to be saved as those works earning salvation. They do not know that saving faith has to produce real works or it isn't saving faith. We're at the point now in the church that virtually no one can hear this truth. They literally can't see the difference between works being done for the purpose of earning salvation and works being done because that's what new creations do, or else they aren't new creations in Christ.

 

[kcnalp]

That's what I said. It only sounds like that's what I'm saying. Most Christians today can only hear the argument for works to be saved as those works earning salvation. They do not know that saving faith has to produce real works or it isn't saving faith. We're at the point now in the church that virtually no one can hear this truth. They literally can't see the difference between works being done for the purpose of earning salvation and works being done because that's what new creations do, or else they aren't new creations in Christ.

You make lots of accusations without proof. Would you call that lies? Have you read what Jesus said about those who judge others?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You were preaching Leviticus

So then, why are you preaching the Law of Moses / Leviticus to Christians who have the New Covenant?

Because faith upholds the law. What is it about Romans 3:31 that you don't understand????? Are we to just discard that verse because it doesn't fit into what the corrupted church has taught us?

Christians "uphold the Law" by FAITH, not literally. Otherwise you would have to execute a lot of folks who work weekends.

If you would read the Bible for yourself you would know that we don't have to keep a literal Sabbath anymore because we're already at rest from sin through Christ. He has made the old way to rest obsolete and not needed anymore. We don't violate that law, we just don't need it anymore. The requirement for Sabbath rest is already fulfilled for the believer through their faith in Christ who brings them into Sabbath rest from their sins.

 

[kcnalp]

Because faith upholds the law. What is it about Romans 3:31 that you don't understand????? Are we to just discard that verse because it doesn't fit into what the corrupted church has taught us?
If you would read the Bible for yourself you would know that we don't have to keep a literal Sabbath anymore because we're already at rest from sin through Christ. He has made the old way to rest obsolete and not needed anymore. We don't violate that law, we just don't need it anymore. The requirement for Sabbath rest is already fulfilled for the believer through their faith in Christ who brings them into Sabbath rest from their sins

How do you know YOU aren't in "the corrupted church"? I'll stick with what Paul said the Law preachers.
Galatians 3:10 (NKJV)
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse;

And what Paul said about works:
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.[/QUOTE]

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You make lots of accusations without proof. Would you call that lies? Have you read what Jesus said about those who judge others?

1 John 3:10
10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

What I can't do is condemn you to hell. That is entirely God's call, not mine. All I can do is warn you how God is going to determine who is going to hell and who is not. That's not judging. Stop fighting it, man. The Bible tells us how to get right with God and get our lives in order for the coming judgment.....

Luke 18:13
13“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God.

When you truly receive this mercy you will be changed, and you will understand how works are required to be saved, not because they earn salvation, but because that's what forgiven people do.

 

[kcnalp]

Now I know you're an unbeliever. Unbelievers always start playing the judging card when you confront them about salvation.

And in case you thought I can not ever consider you as being an unbeliever or not.....

1 John 3:10
10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

What I can't do is condemn you to hell. That is entirely God's call, not mine. All I can do is warn you how God is going to determine who is going to hell and who is not. That's not judging. Stop fighting it, man. The Bible tells us how to get right with God and get our lives in order for the coming judgment.....

Luke 18:13
13“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God.

When you truly receive this mercy you will be changed, and you will understand how works are required to be saved, not because they earn salvation, but because that's what forgiven people do.

Wow! More lies! Have you even read the NT?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

How do you know YOU aren't in "the corrupted church"?

I walked away from the corrupted church.

I'll stick with what Paul said the Law preachers.
Galatians 3:10 (NKJV)
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse;

And what Paul said about works:
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Salvation doesn't earn salvation. We all know that. What you don't know is that the salvation not earned by works is the salvation that works. You don't get it because you are hardened by a corrupted church that itself doesn't know that works are required to be saved when Jesus comes back because truly forgiven people are changed by that forgiveness and do good works.

Luke 7:46-47
she has poured perfume on my feet. 47Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.”

 

[kcnalp]

I walked away from the corrupted church.


Salvation doesn't earn salvation. We all know that. What you don't know is that the salvation not earned by works is the salvation that works. You don't get it because you are hardened by a corrupted church that itself doesn't know that works are required to be saved when Jesus comes back because truly forgiven people are changed by that forgiveness and do good works.

Luke 7:46-47
she has poured perfume on my feet. 47Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.”

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Yep, still there!

 

[kcnalp]

I know it's fruitless to argue with an unbeliever but if you want to go toe to toe on this get your Bible out and let's do it. ....tomorrow, lol. I'm going back to bed I still have to get up for work later.

See post 197.

 

[kcnalp]

I know it's fruitless to argue with an unbeliever but if you want to go toe to toe on this get your Bible out and let's do it. ....tomorrow, lol. I'm going back to bed I still have to get up for work later.

You can't work your way into Heaven, nor by preaching the Law of Moses.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That's a lie.

My friend, if you have done as many "good works" as I have you're doing well.

So you're trying to earn your own salvation, right?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Indeed, True born again believers establish the law as Romans 3:31 so plainly says.

For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life.

 

[justbyfaith]

Like I said those under grace are just that prior to faith. They're subsequently given faith to access the grace they are already standing in.

They are not in the house prior to faith. They stand outside the house. They have the key of faith; which they use to open the door of the house (Jesus Himself being the door). They put the key in the keyhole, open the door, and walk into the house. Once they are in the house, they are standing in grace.

I'm not under the Law of Moses. I have the New Covenant.
Hebrews 8:13 (NKJV)
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete.

Consider the context in Hebrews 8:8-10. It says that the Lord writes the law in the heart and on the mind of the New Covenant believer in Christ.

So then, under the New Covenant, we obey the law (see also Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, Galatians 5:22-23).

Do you even know what Galatians says about the Law preachers?
Galatians 3:10 (NKJV)
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse;

Preaching the law does not place anyone under a curse. The law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24) so that they might understand that they are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20) in order that their souls might be converted (Psalms 19:7 (kjv)).

How do you know YOU aren't in "the corrupted church"? I'll stick with what Paul said the Law preachers.
Galatians 3:10 (NKJV)
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse;

The devil often quotes half a verse in order to get his point across.

Here is the whole verse:

Gal 3:10, For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

And what Paul said about works:
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

It actually says, in the kjv,

"For by grace are ye saved (?) through faith..."

The nkjv is watered-down just a little...not as bad as some others; but still watered-down.

When you truly receive this mercy you will be changed, and you will understand how works are required to be saved, not because they earn salvation, but because that's what forgiven people do.

Amen. Whosoever is forgiven much, also loves much (Luke 7:36-50, 1 John 4:19, Romans 5:5).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You're preaching the Law of Moses but you're not under the Law of Moses? I think you're greatly confused.

No, you're confused. You're the one who thinks preaching the law of Moses can only mean saying the law of Moses is how one is made righteous before God.

I think I'm caught up on your posts. See you tomorrow.

 

[brightfame52]

The law of Moses can not make me sin anymore. And I no longer misunderstand the law to be a source of righteousness. So, no, I am no longer under the law. But I did get saved to uphold the righteousness of the law. If you and a whole lot of other people would read the Bible for yourself instead of being spoon fed the slanted truths of spiritually dead denominations and leaders in the church you'd see that faith upholds the law but, also, there are things in the law that don't have to be done anymore because they are made obsolete because they are upheld by faith in Christ's death and resurrection. The law is the righteousness that faith upholds (Romans 3:31).You probably don't believe that because you have been told over and over that you don't have to keep the law and so you've never read it for yourself to any meaningful degree and skip over the NT verses that talk about it, like Romans 3:31.

Faith upholds the law by the holy apprehension that Christ has upheld it, fulfilled it for them. He for them obeyed all of its righteous precepts and endured it's righteous penalty for violation of it! Believe thou this?