The bride of Christ

[Ziggy]

Now this word is derived from the Pagan idea that the god Hermes or Mercury, which is the Latin equivalent, was the god of interpretation, but shall we then adopt such an idea because it is part of Greek Etymology?

And also here is interesting because both Hermes and Mercury are names the Greeks gave to .. I find it..

Act 14:11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.
Act 14:12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.

Mercurius or Hermes = "herald of the gods"
a Greek deity called by the Romans Mercurius (Mercury)
a certain Christian

So how would you answer the writers question?

Thank You
Hugs

 

[charity]

Thank You @charity

Although I am still reading, I come across the tents. And how the writer is willing to just throw in the towel as pagan philosophy.
Here:
"The three other occurrences of skene are Revelation 13:6; 15:5 and 21:3. We must not assume however that even though the scale is weighted in favour of a reference to the tabernacle in both type and reality, that this is universally accepted. Some have interpreted skenos in 2 Corinthians 5:1-4 as of a theatre, and even James, with all his Hebrew leanings, when quoting from the prophet Amos about the “tabernacle of David” has been made to refer rather to “the Davidic scene” thereby repeating in the future the 30 years of his reign, and this passage in Revelation 21 has not escaped, but has been made to read “The scene or area of Divine Activity” instead of “the tabernacle of God”. The Greek word skene translated “tabernacle” has come into our own tongue in the form scene and is associated both in Greek and in English with the theatre. The Greek theatre was in the open air, and the “tent” soon became, by an easy figure of speech the word used to designate the “stage”. While this is so, there is no warrant for anyone to intrude this change of meaning into the New Testament. The Greek language was in formation long before its adoption as the vehicle for New Testament truth and consequently its words often contained Pagan references. It seems an extraordinary idea that James of all men should be made to speak of the “stage” or “scene” of David when it is well known that he was quoting from Amos 9:11 in Acts 15, and more strange still that this Pagan idea should be thrust into John 1:14 or into Revelation 21:3. Let us give an example of the foolishness of seeking in Greek roots a basis for doctrine. The word “interpret” comes a number of times in the New Testament and the Greek word for it is hermeneuo. Now this word is derived from the Pagan idea that the god Hermes or Mercury, which is the Latin equivalent, was the god of interpretation, but shall we then adopt such an idea because it is part of Greek Etymology? However, only a few of our readers will have come under the influence of a teaching which necessitates the kind"

This theatre that the writer references, to me, is the 33.5 years that Jesus walked in the "open air" among his people.
We don't know if Jesus lived in a "tent" or in a house. We do know he travelled.. a lot. And it's much easier to travel by tent than to tear a house down and keep rebuilding it.

So this "Davidic scene" is hard for him to see, because he already threw the baby out with the water.

I made it to page 18
Still reading..
Thank You
Hugs

Hello @Ziggy,

Unfortunately, because it is taken out of context, we cannot know what lead to this statement or what followed it, so how can a judgement be made concerning it? I certainly cannot make sense of it when taken in isolation like this. Why don't you wait until you have finished reading and comment then, when you have the benefit of the whole picture in front of you.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The word, husbandry, is speaking those involved in planting and watering things that grow [regularly used in agriculture] but used as Paul intends it here:

"I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building." I Cor 3:6-9

We are not growing a vegetable garden. We are [or should be] now the sowers as Jesus was the sower and it is now also we working to the betterment of the new man within being increased in people by adding the living water of which Jesus spoke to the Samaritan woman at the well. Is not the Word of God alive within us so as to give the Bread and Blood of our to those who hunger and thirst after His righteousness so as to be filled [see Matt 5:6]?

thank you. Understood. husbandry as in John 15:1-2 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. [2] Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Why were they called husbandmen? Matthew 21:38-43 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. [39] And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. [40] When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? [41] They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. [42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? [43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

2 Timothy 2:3-7 Thou therefore endure hardness, (Mark 16:11-15) as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. [4] No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. [5] And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully. [6] The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits. [7] Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.


Interesting is Mark 16:11-14 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. [12] After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. [13] And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. [14] Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

 

[Ziggy]

Thank you @charity

We must now consider the import of the word “tabernacle”. The Greek word skene, translated tabernacle occurs twenty times in the New Testament. In nineteen of these occurrences it is translated tabernacle and once habitation. The word occurs as follows: In Matthew, Mark and Luke it is used of “the three tabernacles” so desired by Peter on the Mount of Transfiguration. In the Acts it is used three times, once of the tabernacle of Molech, once of the tabernacle of witness and once of the tabernacle of David. The “tabernacle” in Hebrews is either: (1) The tabernacle pitched by Moses at the commandment of God. (2) The True Tabernacle which the Lord pitched and not man. (3) The tents in which Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were willing as pilgrims to dwell, because they looked for the heavenly Jerusalem, which was also the true tabernacle of God. The three other occurrences of skene are Revelation 13:6; 15:5 and 21:3. We must not assume however that even though the scale is weighted in favour of a reference to the tabernacle in both type and reality, that this is universally accepted. Some have interpreted skenos in 2 Corinthians 5:1-4 as of a theatre, and even James, with all his Hebrew leanings, when quoting from the prophet Amos about the “tabernacle of David” has been made to refer rather to “the Davidic scene” thereby repeating in the future the 30 years of his reign, and this passage in Revelation 21 has not escaped, but has been made to read “The scene or area of Divine Activity” instead of “the tabernacle of God”. The Greek word skene translated “tabernacle” has come into our own tongue in the form scene and is associated both in Greek and in English with the theatre. The Greek theatre was in the open air, and the “tent” soon became, by an easy figure of speech the word used to designate the “stage”. While this is so, there is no warrant for anyone to intrude this change of meaning into the New Testament. The Greek language was in formation long before its adoption as the vehicle for New Testament truth and consequently its words often contained Pagan references. It seems an extraordinary idea that James of all men should be made to speak of the “stage” or “scene” of David when it is well known that he was quoting from Amos 9:11 in Acts 15, and more strange still that this Pagan idea should be thrust into John 1:14 or into Revelation 21:3. Let us give an example of the foolishness of seeking in Greek roots a basis for doctrine. The word “interpret” comes a number of times in the New Testament and the Greek word for it is hermeneuo. Now this word is derived from the Pagan idea that the god Hermes or Mercury, which is the Latin equivalent, was the god of interpretation, but shall we then adopt such an idea because it is part of Greek Etymology? However, only a few of our readers will have come under the influence of a teaching which necessitates the kind of treatment of language we have mentioned; and so we pass on to other features of the subject we are considering; namely the place of the “wife”, the “bride” and the “body”, in the outworking of the purposes of grace.

All I'm saying is HE PASSED OVER a LOT.
And then moves on to the tent as the curtain above the world. No longer a "tabernacle" which dwells among men.
I am in the "administrations now" . And have "passed on" from what only a few of their readers come under this influence of a teaching...that "we" , they are considering.

I hear bias..
I will keep going however, that is the full context of which I was refering.
Thank You
Hugs

(just a whatever... If I say there are things in the bible that were put in there and not by God himself, I get BLASTED.
But when other's say we shouldn't pay attention because it has a pagan etymology, we just don't worry about it, nothing to see here, walk on by no problem... )

At some point we have to agree, it is either all God's handiwork or it is flawed.
I lean on the side of All God's handiwork.

 

[amadeus]

thank you. Understood. husbandry as in John 15:1-2 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. [2] Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Why were they called husbandmen? Matthew 21:38-43 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. [39] And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. [40] When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? [41] They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. [42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? [43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

2 Timothy 2:3-7 Thou therefore endure hardness, (Mark 16:11-15) as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. [4] No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. [5] And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully. [6] The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits. [7] Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.


Interesting is Mark 16:11-14 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. [12] After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. [13] And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. [14] Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Very good sister! You brought together some good verses that help fill in gaps in our understanding. Give God the glory!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Looks like in all the epistles at least one writer would have referenced the church as the bride of Christ, if that is the case.

Except the writers under the inspiration of God, used the proper term until John declared so in REv. 19!

Right now the church is NOT the BRIDE of Christ. We ARE the ESPOUSED of Jesus. It is not the writers of Scripture but our own biases that give us wrong impressions.

Also in the time of th e apostles there were differences between an espoused, a bride and a wife!

 

[Waiting on him]

Except the writers under the inspiration of God, used the proper term until John declared so in REv. 19!

Right now the church is NOT the BRIDE of Christ. We ARE the ESPOUSED of Jesus. It is not the writers of Scripture but our own biases that give us wrong impressions.

Also in the time of th e apostles there were differences between an espoused, a bride and a wife!

So is Christ not the Husband?

2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

espoused:
Strong's G718 - harmozō

to join, to fit together
of carpenter's, fastening together beams and planks to build houses, ships, etc.
to betroth a daughter to any one
to join to one's self, i.e. to marry the daughter of any one
to betroth, to give one in marriage to any one

look at this, maybe, just maybe we are the bridegroom going forward. You said the other day i and my father are one.
Psalm 19:4-6 KJV
[4] Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, [5] Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. [6] His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
The tabernacle is there and there is no need for the sun, we in fact are the bridegroom going forth declaring the glory of God. Jesus references his disciples as the children of the bride chamber. Could be wrong something to consider.

for the sun
coming out of His chamber.
@Ziggy

 

[Waiting on him]

Revelation 21:3-6 KJV
[3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. [4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. [5] And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. [6] And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

 

[Waiting on him]

Mini Goforth declaring their own righteousness.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

look at this, maybe, just maybe we are the bridegroom going forward. You said the other day i and my father are one.
Psalm 19:4-6 KJV
[4] Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, [5] Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. [6] His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
The tabernacle is there and there is no need for the sun, we in fact are the bridegroom going forth declaring the glory of God. Jesus references his disciples as the children of the bride chamber. Could be wrong something to consider.

for the sun
coming out of His chamber.
@Ziggy

Grammar, brother, grammar!

Verse 5 is shown to be a metaphor! How do we know? "is as" which lets us know that the sun is like a bridegroom.

 

[Waiting on him]

Grammar, brother, grammar!

Verse 5 is shown to be a metaphor! How do we know? "is as" which lets us know that the sun is like a bridegroom.

Set a tabernacle for the sun.
To me implying in the place of.
It’s the heavens going forth declaring the Glory of God as a bridegroom going forth from His chamber.

as Paul to run a race.

 

[Waiting on him]

Grammar, brother, grammar!

Verse 5 is shown to be a metaphor! How do we know? "is as" which lets us know that the sun is like a bridegroom.

I’m not an awaiting bride, His seed is in me and I’m going forth declaring His glory.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Psalm 19:4-6 KJV
[4] Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, [5] Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. [6] His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

Romans 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

 

[Waiting on him]

Romans 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Amen!!!

 

[Waiting on him]

Amen!!!

Romans 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

2 Corinthians 10:15-16 KJV
[15] Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly, [16] To preach the gospel in the regions beyond you, and not to boast in another man's line of things made ready to our hand.

 

[Waiting on him]

The tabernacle of God has been with man for millennia, why is the church so impotent?

 

[Ziggy]

look at this, maybe, just maybe we are the bridegroom going forward. You said the other day i and my father are one.
Psalm 19:4-6 KJV
[4] Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, [5] Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. [6] His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
The tabernacle is there and there is no need for the sun, we in fact are the bridegroom going forth declaring the glory of God. Jesus references his disciples as the children of the bride chamber. Could be wrong something to consider.

for the sun
coming out of His chamber.
@Ziggy

Not trying to be funny, but I had an image in my mind of the Big Bang theory..
And all the stars and planets filling the Universe.
And frankly, I'm not opposed to that either.
I wasn't there when God said...
so..
Gen 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

Imagine being the heralding Angels.. ushering in all creation..

Hugs

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The tabernacle of God has been with man for millennia, why is the church so impotent?

love @Ziggy post in the other thread on ‘let us’ ...after the first ‘let us’, the very next time ‘let us’ is mentioned is here: Genesis 11:3-8 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter. [4] And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad (2 Corinthians 9:9)
upon the face of the whole earth. [5] And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. [6] And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. [7] Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. [8] So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

Acts 2:1-8 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. [2] And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. [3] And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. [4] And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. [5] And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. [6] Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. [7] And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? [8] And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?


1 Peter 2:5-6 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. [6] Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Galatians 5:14-15 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [15] But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

 

[Waiting on him]

Not trying to be funny, but I had an image in my mind of the Big Bang theory..
And all the stars and planets filling the Universe.
And frankly, I'm not opposed to that either.
I wasn't there when God said...
so..
Gen 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

Imagine being the heralding Angels.. ushering in all creation..

Hugs

Beautiful!

 

[Ziggy]

love @Ziggy post in the other thread on ‘let us’ ...after the first ‘let us’, the very next time ‘let us’ is mentioned is here: Genesis 11:3-8 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter. [4] And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad (2 Corinthians 9:9)
upon the face of the whole earth. [5] And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. [6] And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. [7] Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. [8] So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

Acts 2:1-8 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. [2] And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. [3] And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. [4] And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. [5] And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. [6] Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. [7] And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? [8] And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?


1 Peter 2:5-6 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. [6] Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Galatians 5:14-15 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [15] But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

Psa 127:1 [[A Song of degrees for Solomon.]] Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.