Contradiction Or Paradox?

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Grailhunter

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The family name, is JEHOVAH Elohiym. The Father's name is JEHOVAH. Always was (even Nehemia Gordon has demonstrated this from numerous sources, including Rabbinic ones. John Gill wrote an entire history on it. Gail Riplinger cites these and other sources). The Son is Jesus JEHOVAH (see Genesis 49:18; Exodus 14:13; 2 Chronicles 20:17; Jonah 2:9; Psalms 119:174 HOT) or JEHOVAH Immanuel (see Psalms 46:7,11 HOT). Both are still in Scripture. For instance:

Exo_6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.​

The name was kept reserved for several reasons, persecution, sanctity, to keep it away from certain groups. Also LORD is a proper way to relate to God, as I don't even go around saying my earthly father's actual name except on rare occasions.

No "J's" in any language anywhere until 1400 years after Christ and was not popular until late 1500's So you cannot have any names with a J in the Bible.
Whether it is Yahweh or Yeshua both names are Hebrew.
Both name translate straight from Hebrew to English.
No reason to run them through the Greek...Latin....Chinese...
Most of it is easy to prove...Look up Yeshua, Yahweh, and other biblical names that they have spelled with a J. Job is Yob.
Take a course in Hebrew will be a good thing to start with.
 

Truther

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No "J's" in any language anywhere until 1400 years after Christ and was not popular until late 1500's So you cannot have any names with a J in the Bible.
Whether it is Yahweh or Yeshua both names are Hebrew.
Both name translate straight from Hebrew to English.
No reason to run them through the Greek...Latin....Chinese...
Most of it is easy to prove...Look up Yeshua, Yahweh, and other biblical names that they have spelled with a J. Job is Yob.
Take a course in Hebrew will be a good thing to start with.
The Greek word for Jesus is Iesous.

It is much closer for English speaker to say Jesus, than Yeshua etc.

Iesous sounds nothing like Yeshua.
 

Grailhunter

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The Greek word for Jesus is Iesous.

It is much closer for English speaker to say Jesus, than Yeshua etc.

Iesous sounds nothing like Yeshua.
Again and again no reason to run Hebrew names through the Greek or Latin.
Pronounced Yeshua in Hebrew...pronounced Yeshua in English.
If you are Greek or German or Chinese we can look into those pronunciations.
 

Truther

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Again and again no reason to run Hebrew names through the Greek or Latin.
Pronounced Yeshua in Hebrew...pronounced Yeshua in English.
If you are Greek or German or Chinese we can look into those pronunciations.
Jesus was given a Greek name by the angel.
 

Grailhunter

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The Jews were under Greco/Roman domination for generations. They spoke Greek as the primary language.

Same as those that come to America do with English.
The Jews were under Greco/Roman domination for generations. This is true and some spoke Greek...also. That does not mean they changed their names.
For a Jew to change their name to Greek would imply that they were Hellenistic and look down upon by other Jews
 

Truther

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The Jews were under Greco/Roman domination for generations. This is true and some spoke Greek...also. That does not mean they changed their names.
For a Jew to change their name to Greek would imply that they were Hellenistic and look down upon by other Jews
No, it would mean their parents intermarried with Greeks or Romans.

The Jews intermarried commonly with Gentiles as we see in Samaria etc.

This segregation you think of would have been national suicide in the Roman economy.

They all spoke Greek and even used Roman currency.
 

justbyfaith

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Jesus is the Hight Priest (Hebrews 7:26). And He is the same yesterday, today, and for ever (Hebrews 13:8).
 

Grailhunter

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No, it would mean their parents intermarried with Greeks or Romans.

The Jews intermarried commonly with Gentiles as we see in Samaria etc.

This segregation you think of would have been national suicide in the Roman economy.

They all spoke Greek and even used Roman currency.
You are way off. Not worth debating.
 

ReChoired

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Jesus is the Hight Priest (Hebrews 7:26).
Yes, but there was a time when he "became" such:

Heb_7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Heb_5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.​

And He is the same yesterday, today, and for ever (Hebrews 13:8).
That is speaking about His character, not His priesthood (office).

Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Heb 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.​

It is citing several OT texts, that God doesn't change in who He is, see vs 5,6.
 

ReChoired

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No "J's" in any language anywhere until 1400 years after Christ and was not popular until late 1500's So you cannot have any names with a J in the Bible.
Yes, In English, you can. It's a matter of translation, from one language to another. Otherwise you are going to have serious issues in the NT, when the NT translates from Hebrew (OT texts) to koine Greek, when it cites the OT.

Also German, see Luther German:

Mat 1:1 Dies ist das Buch von der Geburt Jesu Christi, der da ist ein Sohn Davids, des Sohnes Abrahams.
Also French, see Ostervald (or even Olivetan):

Mat 1:1 Livre généalogique de JÉSUS-CHRIST, fils de David, fils d'Abraham.
Also Spanish, see Reina Valera:

Mat 1:1 LIBRO de la generación de Jesucristo , hijo de David, hijo de Abraham.
Also in Portugese, see Corrigida:

Mat 1:1 Livro da geração de Jesus Cristo, Filho de Davi, Filho de Abraão.
In Italian, same sound, but differing letter, "G", see Diodati:

Mat 1:1 LIBRO della generazione di Gesù Cristo, figliuolo di Davide, figliuolo di Abrahamo.
In the Bishop's Bible, it is an "I", but pronounced as a "J" would be:

Mat 1:1 This is the booke of the generation of Iesus Christ, the sonne of Dauid, the sonne of Abraham.​
 
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ReChoired

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3. There is a long list of biblical contradictions that I post that caused a stir.
No, you had a long list of empty vanity, that was shown to be nothing, and no actual contradiction, and you yourself removed them.
 

VictoryinJesus

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Does anyone else have any examples of passages that seem to contradict each other, but are actually both quite true?
One for me would be Luke 13:22-26 And he went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. [23] Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, [24] Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. [25] When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: [26] Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.

It is the ‘and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door,...
Yet Matthew 7:7-13 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: [8] For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. [9] Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? [10] Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? [11] If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? [12] Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. [13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
 

ReChoired

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The Bible is not perfect
The Bible is the "work" of God:

Deu_32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

2Sa_22:31 As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all them that trust in him.

Psa_18:30 As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him.

Joh_10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Luk_4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Mat_4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Pro_30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

Psa_33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

Psa_68:11 The Lord gave the word: great was the company of those that published it.

Isa_28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

1Pe_1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Deu_8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
 

ReChoired

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One for me would be Luke 13:22-26 And he went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. [23] Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, [24] Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. [25] When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: [26] Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.

It is the ‘and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door,...
Yet Matthew 7:7-13 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: [8] For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. [9] Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? [10] Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? [11] If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? [12] Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. [13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
Matter of timing. See Daniel 12:1,

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Rev_10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Rev_22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.​

As it was in the days of Noah, and Lot:

Gen 7:16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

Gen_19:10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.​

There is a point of no return. A time set by God, when no more can enter in - no matter how hard they knock - It is too late.

Rev_15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.​
 

Grailhunter

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Yes, In English, you can. It's a matter of translation, from one language to another. Otherwise you are going to have serious issues in the NT, when the NT translates from Hebrew (OT texts) to koine Greek, when it cites the OT.

Also German, see Luther German:

Mat 1:1 Dies ist das Buch von der Geburt Jesu Christi, der da ist ein Sohn Davids, des Sohnes Abrahams.​
You have no idea what you are talking about, you are trying my patience.
The Septuagint translation occurred on Pharos Island, in the fortress that the Great Lighthouse of Alexandria was built upon. Not that this translational process did not move about a bit....the process took a long time. The process was an attempt to preserve the Hebrew scriptures (specifically the Torah) for the Great Library of Alexandria. This process converted the Hebrew scriptures to Greek.

What this process did not do was change the Jewish language....coming out of Persia when Alexander the Great conquered Persia the Jews were speaking a few languages. Hebrew was still the common spoken language of the Jews, but not the common written language. This sort of thing was normal in ancient times because not everyone could read and write.

Greek and Romans were a hated people and a hated language for the Jews. There were a few revolts, the most famous of which was the Maccabees Revolt. Not long before Christ's ministry 2000 Jews were crucified by the Romans. The languages of choice were Hebrew and Aramaic, but Greek is a common written language, which is why the New Testament was written in a Pagan language. The Greek name for Christ Iēsous (Greek: Ἰησοῦς) was not what Christ called himself and his mother probably did not ever hear the name unless someone sneezed! The correct pronunciation of Ἰησοῦς is like "e-sues"

Jews that took on Greek names were looked down upon. Jews that had good relations with the Romans were looked down upon, Jews that married into Roman families were looked down upon and in accordance with the Mosaic Law were to be stoned. Which is probably one of the reasons that the Apostle Paul had such troubles with the Judaizers.

Again and again! Please use both hands. There is absolutely no reason for us today to take a Hebrew name and run it through the Greek or Latin language mills. Both Hebrew and English have there roots in the Phoenician language and so going from Hebrew to English is very easy. (Note this please and remember...In the original languages (Latin, Greek, Hebrew) which provide us with the names Jesus, Joseph, Justinian, etc., the sound which we write as J was pronounced as the English letter Y. ... In Latin, the letter for this was I/i, in Greek it was Ι/ι (iota), and in Hebrew it was י (yod).

Your information is seriously in error! The letter J and it pronunciation did not occur until 1400 years after Christ and was not popularly used until the 1600's. You have been taught a lie! Please do a little study.
 
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ReChoired

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The Septuagint translation occurred on Pharos Island beneath the Great Lighthouse of Alexandria.
No.

'Taint no such thing as "the Septuagint". What you are actually referring to is Origen's Hexapla (Catholic).

The so called "Septuagint", really being "septuaginta (plural, with differing translations)" of Origen's Hexapla, Theodotion (6th column), Aquila of Sinope, & Symmachus and really from the sources Vaticanus and Sinaiticus (both of which are not anywhere near 4th C.).

The Septuagint [LXX] as we presently know it, appears first in the writings of Origen [Hexapla] at near the end of the 2nd century AD, and the mention by the so-called "Letter of Aristeas", based on an unfounded and mostly discredited "legend", is seriously problematic.

"... Most of these fables focus on an infamous “book” 14 called the Letter of Aristeas” 15 (hereafter called the Letter) and the alleged claims of the Letter’s documentation by authors who wrote before the first coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and in the first few centuries following His first sojourn on earth. 16 The only extant Letter is dated from the eleventh century. In addition, there is no pre-Christian Greek translation of the He-brew Old Testament text, which the Letter alleges, that has been found, in-cluding the texts among the Dead Sea Scrolls. ..." - http://www.theoldpathspublications.com/Downloads/Free/The Septuagint ebook.pdf

"... the story of Aristeas appears comparatively rational. Yet it has long been recognized that much of it is unhistorical, in particular the professed date and nationality of the writer. Its claims to authenticity were demolished by Dr. Hody two centuries ago (De bibliorum textibus originalibus, Oxon., 1705) ..." - The Septuagint, by H. St. J. Thackeray

De bibliorum textibus originalibus - Humfredi Hodii linguae graecae professoris regii et Archidiaconi Oxon. De bibliorum textibus originalibus, versionibus graecis, & latina vulgata libri 4..

Other sources, identifying the same - The Septuagint

Was the Septuagint the Bible of Christ and the Apostles?

"... Roman Catholics use the idea that Christ quoted the Septuagint to justly include the Apocrypha in their Bibles. ... Since no Hebrew Old Testament ever included the books of the Apocrypha, the Septuagint is the only source the Catholics have for justifying their canon. Many Reformers and Lutherans wrote at great length refuting the validity of the Septuagint. ..." - http://www.wcbible.org/documents/septuagint.pdf

"... [Page 46] Proponents of the invisible LXX will try to claim that Origen didn't translate the Hebrew into Greek, but only copied the LXX into the second column of his Hexapla. Can this argument be correct? No. If it were, then that would mean that those astute 72 Jewish scholars added the Apocryphal books to their work before they were ever written. (!) Or else, Origen took the liberty to add these spurious writings to God's Holy Word (Rev. 22:18). ...

... Is there ANY Greek manuscript of the Old Testament written BEFORE the time of Christ? Yes. There is one minute scrap dated at 150 BC, the Ryland's Papyrus, #458. It contains Deuteronomy chapters 23-28. No more. No less. If fact, it may be the existence of this fragment that led Eucebius and Philo to assume that the entire Pentatuech had been translated by some scribe in an effort to interest Gentiles in the history of the Jews. ... [page 46]

... [Page 47] If there was an Aristeas, he was faced with two insurmountable problems.

First, how did he ever locate the twelve tribes in order to pick his six representative scholars from each. Having been thoroughly scattered by their many defeats and captivities, the tribal lines of the 12 tribes had long since dissolved into virtual non-existence. It was impossible for anyone to distinctly identify the 12 individual tribes.

Secondly, if the 12 tribes had been identified, they would not have undertaken such a translation for two compelling reasons.

(1) Every Jew knew that the official caretaker of Scripture was the tribe of Levi as evidenced in Deuteronomy 17:18, 31:25,26 and Malachi 2:7. Thus, NO Jew of any of the eleven other tribes would dare to join such a forbidden enterprise. ..." - The Answer Book, By Sam Gipp, Page 46-47, selected portions, emphasis [bold] in original.

See also The Mythological Septuagint - https://ia801900.us.archive.org/13/items/peter-s-ruckman-the-mythological-septuagint/Peter S Ruckman - The Mythological Septuagint.pdf

"... 1 Jones, The Septuagint: A Critical Analysis, op. cit., pp. 10–54. The reader should, in all fairness, be apprised of the fact that very nearly all references in the literature which allude to the Septuagint in fact pertain to Origen's 5th column. That is, the real LXX from all citation evidence as to N.T. references – indeed, for all practical purposes – the Septuagint that we actually "see" and "use" is found to actually be only two manuscripts, Vaticanus B and Sinaiticus a. This is especially true of Vaticanus. Although this fact is difficult to ferret out from among the vast amount of literature on the subject, it may be verified by numerous sources. Among them, the reader is directed to page 1259 in The New Bible Dictionary op. cit., (Texts-Versions) where D.W. Gooding admits this when he relates that the LXX of Jer.38:40 (Jer.31:40 in the MT) as shown in figure 214 has been taken from the Codex Sinaiticus. Thomas Hartwell Horne is even more direct in An Introduction to the Critical Study and Knowledge of the Holy Scriptures, 9th ed., Vol. II, (London, Eng.: Spottiswoode and Shaw, 1846), fn. 1. p. 282 and fn. 3 p. 288. It has been established that both were produced from Origen's 5th column. Thus, the Septuagint which we actually utilize in practical outworking, the LXX which is cited almost ninety percent of the time, is actually the LXX that was written more than 250 years after the completion of the New Testament canon – and by a "Catholicized Jehovah's Witness" at that! Moreover, it must be seen that the testimony of these two corrupted manuscripts is almost solely responsible for the errors being foisted upon the Holy Scriptures in both Testaments by modern critics! - Footnote 1, Which Version?, by Floyd Nolen Jones, 20th edition page 129 [PDF] -https://ia601901.us.archive.org/9/items/floyd-nolen-jones-which-version-is-the-bible/Floyd%20Nolen%20Jones%20-%20Which%20Version%20Is%20The%20Bible.pdf​