Contradiction Or Paradox?

[BarneyFife]

Not being dodgy. I am being specific, since I know the actual definition of "Trinity" that is used in most of the churches, and it is error (again, if you want citations, I can cite them for you).

There is a reason for it (not being mentioned in sabbath school).

"... The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath, of course would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure. [82]

Who has authority to begin such a movement? We have our Bibles. We have our experience, attested to by the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit. We have a truth that admits of no compromise. Shall we not repudiate everything that is not in harmony with this truth? {BCL 82.1} ..." - Battle Creek Letters - 1928.
​

This took place, especially with Glacier View, etc.

Watch this to see the history:

You can also read "The Broken Blueprint" - https://archive.org/download/sda-vance-ferrell-the-broken-blueprint/SDA - Vance Ferrell - The Broken Blueprint.pdf

Especially see the Omega of Apostasy:

I'll check it out but I doubt I'll hear anything I haven't heard before. What does Glacier View have to do with the trinity? I once heard audio of GV and I don't remember it coming up at all. Ford stumbled at the Sanctuary doctrine because he'd never had a good Bible Study on it. Plain and simple.
Here are some decent ones:

Introduction to Atonement - AudioVerse
The Judgment and its Hour - AudioVerse
A History of Dissent Regarding the Sanctuary - AudioVerse
What is Jesus Doing? - AudioVerse

 

[amadeus]

Sorry to hear that. Florida is a ways off from Oklahoma and Kansas, and different at that.

Here is a gift for her (and you) if you are able to get it to her.

Sung by our very own Maranatha Sisters (video not of them, was studio sung, video added just to post on youtube).

I had just sent her a card a couple of days ago via snail mail along with others sent out for the Christmas holidays, but I also have her e-mail address although I have seldom used it other than to send her pictures. Your contribution for her of that song reminded me of that "door". I have a way to send it to her. It is an excellent excuse/opportunity to close our own gap of physical distance as well as to hopefully eventually find a way for her to reconnect with her father, in particular. I cannot do it, but God certainly can.

 

[amadeus]

So sad. I have one sibling, an estranged sister. She's consumed with hate. She can't seem to forgive anyone for anything. It's broken my dad's heart so badly, he gets physically ill over it. She used to idolize me. She's hated me for 11 years now. I can't say I'm entirely blameless. I've prayed about it and reconciled a few times, but every time the hate gets worse. I love her so much, but trying to maintain a meaningful relationship with her is like walking through a minefield on eggshells.

You situation is a bit different than that of my granddaughter as it is directly between you and her that the problem lies. Our problem is between her and her father [my son-in-law]. She is willing to forgive and forget, but he is not. We would act as go-betweens, but it is not something that her father will even discuss with us. He has turned her younger brother and sister against her with his words and attitude.

I wish I had some good advice for you and your sister, but I really don't. I will have you in my prayers.

 

[ReChoired]

I cannot do it, but God certainly can.

I believe that also elder brother. And with the times/events as they are, now is the right time to reconnect.

 

[ReChoired]

I'll check it out

All I can ask. If you don't have time for the long version, go to the last video in the post. New Theology.

 

[amadeus]

Here in Samoa and American Samoa, families cannot get back together because no passenger planes are flying in or out, for the last 3/4 year.

People are stuck on island, and others are stuck off island.

Dead persons, are stuck in Hawaii, and cannot come back into the Island to be buried. They are sitting in freezers in Hawaii.

Some complained to the Am.Sam. Gov. to try to fly them in on mail planes, as "cargo", but no go.

I do hear you. Even when there is not an ocean separating people it can be quite difficult. When my cousin in Oklahoma City died from Covid 19 this past July, his wife for 54 years, who had had the virus and recovered, was not allowed to see him at all in the hospital the last few days of his life and she lived only a few miles away. They did have a minimal attendance funeral, but I decided not to attend because of my wife's severely compromised immune system. At least the two of us. my wife and I, are together and comfortable during these times so difficult for so many others. Thank God for that!

 

[BarneyFife]

- oops

 

[ReChoired]

- oops

Thanks for sending in private, though openly is fine.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, but there was a time when he "became" such:

Heb_7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Heb_5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.​

That is speaking about His character, not His priesthood (office).

Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Heb 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.​

It is citing several OT texts, that God doesn't change in who He is, see vs 5,6.

I think that the underlying doctrine in what I am trying to preach here is what is written in Romans 7:6.

It should be clear that Jesus violated the letter of the sabbath day laws in John 5:16-18 (regardless of what the Greek word for "brake" means: because it is clear that Jesus claimed to be working; and that day was the sabbath day. Therefore, if Jesus was not lying, He worked on the sabbath; and this is in violation of the letter, if not the spirit, of the sabbath day law that we find in Exodus 20:10).

In order for Jesus not to have sinned in violating the letter of the sabbath day law (which He did do), the law would have had to have been changed before He committed this violation.

Therefore I believe that Jesus, being the same yesterday, today, and for ever, was High Priest according to the order of Melchizedec even while He walked the earth; in order that the law might have been changed for Him and in order that He might violate the letter of the law (while He did not violate the spirit of that law) and also be blameless.

Because the change in law came about because Jesus has the power of an indestructible life. And He had this life even before He was risen from the dead. Yes, He died; but it is also true that it was impossible that He should be holden by the cords of death.

Jesus did not die for His own sin. He died for ours.

Therefore, while it is indisputable that He brake the letter of the sabbath day law, it should be clear that the law was changed because that Jesus came according to a different order of a priesthood; and therefore, because this change in law consists of being obedient to the spirit of the law rather than being bound by the letter, Jesus remained guiltless.

Consider and meditate on the following principles.

Rom 7:1, Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2, For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3, So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4, Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5, For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6, But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

 

[amigo de christo]

I think that the underlying doctrine in what I am trying to preach here is what is written in Romans 7:6.

It should be clear that Jesus violated the letter of the sabbath day laws in John 5:16-18 (regardless of what the Greek word for "brake" means: because it is clear that Jesus claimed to be working; and that day was the sabbath day. Therefore, if Jesus was not lying, He worked on the sabbath; and this is in violation of the letter, if not the spirit, of the sabbath day law that we find in Exodus 20:10).

In order for Jesus not to have sinned in violating the letter of the sabbath day law (which He did do), the law would have had to have been changed before He committed this violation.

Therefore I believe that Jesus, being the same yesterday, today, and for ever, was High Priest according to the order of Melchizedec even while He walked the earth; in order that the law might have been changed for Him and in order that He might violate the letter of the law (while He did not violate the spirit of that law) and also be blameless.

Because the change in law came about because Jesus has the power of an indestructible life. And He had this life even before He was risen from the dead. Yes, He died; but it is also true that it was impossible that He should be holden by the cords of death.

Jesus did not die for His own sin. He died for ours.

Therefore, while it is indisputable that He brake the letter of the sabbath day law, it should be clear that the law was changed because that Jesus came according to a different order of a priesthood; and therefore, because this change in law consists of being obedient to the spirit of the law rather than being bound by the letter, Jesus remained guiltless.

Consider and meditate on the following principles.

Rom 7:1, Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2, For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3, So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4, Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5, For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6, But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

JESUS HAD to fullfill the letter of the law . HE did not transgress it . FOR IT BEHOVES US TO FULLFILL ALL THINGS .
THAT Too was why he even recieved baptism by john . IT WASNT CAUSE HE NEEDED IT . IT HAD TO FULLFILL THE LAW FOR US .
GODS righteous law . STOP saying he transgressed the law . That is blasphemy .
DO you realize that even after he healed that leper , he still told him to offer up what moses said according tothe law for their healing .
HE KEPT the LAW man . stop this . Your overthinking . Its blasphemy man .
Stop listening to those wild eyed preachers . JESUS Did not transgress a thing . HE never transgressed the sabbath .
HE had to fullfill it FOR US . not for HIM , but for us .

 

[amigo de christo]

It is not unlawful to heal , to do good on the sabbath . The pharisees did not even know how to truly fullfill the sabbath .
THEY thought backwards . They accused HIM of trangressing it , YET It was they who trangressed it .
IT is not unlawful to DO GOOD on the sabbath .

 

[justbyfaith]

It would appear then, also, that Jesus did not make Himself equal to the Father in John 5:18.

Because if it was merely the opinion of the scribes and Pharisees that He brake the sabbath, then it was also merely their opinion that He claimed to be equal with God.

Personally, I don't believe that.

I believe that both statements were the estimation of the apostle under the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit.

The answer as to how this is not blasphemy, is found in Hebrews chapter 7, if you are willing to look into it.

 

[justbyfaith]

IT is not unlawful to DO GOOD on the sabbath .

Yes, Jesus re-defined the law on this point.

The original letter said that you shall not do "any" work on the sabbath...and there is no escaping that.

 

[BarneyFife]

I think that the underlying doctrine in what I am trying to preach here is what is written in Romans 7:6.

It should be clear that Jesus violated the letter of the sabbath day laws in John 5:16-18 (regardless of what the Greek word for "brake" means: because it is clear that Jesus claimed to be working; and that day was the sabbath day. Therefore, if Jesus was not lying, He worked on the sabbath; and this is in violation of the letter, if not the spirit, of the sabbath day law that we find in Exodus 20:10).

In order for Jesus not to have sinned in violating the letter of the sabbath day law (which He did do), the law would have had to have been changed before He committed this violation.

Therefore I believe that Jesus, being the same yesterday, today, and for ever, was High Priest according to the order of Melchizedec even while He walked the earth; in order that the law might have been changed for Him and in order that He might violate the letter of the law (while He did not violate the spirit of that law) and also be blameless.

Because the change in law came about because Jesus has the power of an indestructible life. And He had this life even before He was risen from the dead. Yes, He died; but it is also true that it was impossible that He should be holden by the cords of death.

Jesus did not die for His own sin. He died for ours.

Therefore, while it is indisputable that He brake the letter of the sabbath day law, it should be clear that the law was changed because that Jesus came according to a different order of a priesthood; and therefore, because this change in law consists of being obedient to the spirit of the law rather than being bound by the letter, Jesus remained guiltless.

Consider and meditate on the following principles.

Rom 7:1, Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2, For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3, So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4, Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5, For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6, But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

The paradox here is that Jesus, Who is fully God, can rest and work at the same time without violating the definition of either. He could not have sinned; otherwise, He could not be, as the Bible says, "without sin" (Hebrews 9:28).

The LORD GOD rested on the seventh day of creation week. Did the worlds hold themselves up during that day? Clearly, He was working while He was resting. Exodus 20 gives the example of this rest as God's rest on the inaugural 7th day of the creation week.

There was no change in the ten commandment law and if Jesus possessed an indestructible life, then He was not made in all things like unto His brethren (Hebrews 2:17).

We should break free from the boxes that we keep ourselves and God in and which cause us to say heinous things like "Jesus sinned."

 

[ChristisGod]

The paradox here is that Jesus, Who is fully God, can rest and work at the same time without violating the definition of either. He could not have sinned; otherwise, He could not be, as the Bible says, "without sin" (Hebrews 9:28).

The LORD GOD rested on the seventh day of creation week. Did the worlds hold themselves up during that day? Clearly, He was working while He was resting. Exodus 20 gives the example of this rest as God's rest on the inaugural 7th day of the creation week.

There was no change in the ten commandment law and if Jesus possessed an indestructible life, then He was not made in all things like unto His brethren (Hebrews 2:17).

We should break free from the boxes that we keep ourselves and God in and which cause us to say heinous things like "Jesus sinned."

Amen like Father like Son- Jesus is Impeccable.

 

[Truther]

You are way off. Not worth debating.

I suppose you tink the Jews thought the ancient Hebrew language was holy and kept it as their dominant language so the business world would pass them by?
Have Jews in all nations stuck to ancient Hebrew as their first language?

Did these Jews speak Hebrew as their first language too?....


6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

 

[Truther]

Sounds a little like commentary.

Are these Jews Hebrew speaking Jews?...


6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

 

[BarneyFife]

Are these Jews Hebrew speaking Jews?...


6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Nevertheless

 

[Truther]

Nevertheless

Neverthelesswhat?

 

[Grailhunter]

I suppose you tink the Jews thought the ancient Hebrew language was holy and kept it as their dominant language so the business world would pass them by?
Have Jews in all nations stuck to ancient Hebrew as their first language?

Did these Jews speak Hebrew as their first language too?....


6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Learn a little history