Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
D
I agree with Truther
Can I also add that Jesus said baptism saves us:
"He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 1616)
Belief + baptism = salvation
Peter also says that baptism saves us.
"Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you" (1Pet 3:21).
Nowhere does scripture say that baptism is merely a sign that we have been saved.
If Baptism is a work then so is belief. It is a mental work.
But truly baptism is a work of God - when the Holy Spirit renews us; when God forgives our sins; when God accepts us into the New Covenant.
Baptism is the normal way of salvation that Jesus gave us.
1 Peter 3:21
King James Version
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
It is not the immersion in water, but the regenration of the Holy Spirit! If That is true then teh penitent thief was not saved.
If Baptism was so important to salvation, then why was Paul glad that He didn't baptize many people?
1 Cor. 1:
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
It is trust in the gospel message ALONE that saves us!
Romans 1:16
King James Version
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Romans 10:9-10
King James Version
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Ephesians 2:8-10
King James Version
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
If Baptism was so important for salvation, why does Paul neglect to include it in the verses that speak of Salvation? Because it does not save. One can accept Christ, and die before baptism and they are just as saved as one who trusted Christ and then followed that profession with believers baptism.
We are to be baptized! That is a command! But it is to happen after we believe and not required to be saved! Most believers today do not even know the commitment or soberness of what Baptism means. It is an outward sign of an already existing inward reality. but it is also aoublic declaration that you intend to follow Christ!
And calling belief a work is just playing word games. You know full well that is not what is intended by works in the bible.
But you then cite actions that are all true of teh Holy Spirit Baptism which happens the moment one believes and is saved.
but let me ask you:
Is it your contention that the Ethiopian eunuch was not saved until after he came up out of the water? Even though Philip told HIm He could not get baptized unless He truly believed?
Do you know then that all who were sprinkled are not saved? Baptismo means immersion and not somebody sprinkling water on your head! So every one who has not been immersed in baptism are not saved according to your logic.