Where does the Bible say...

[Marymog]

I trust in the LORD God (JEHOVAH Elohiym), God our Father in Heaven, and our Head, Jesus Christ, who works through His body on earth, including through the gifts given to that body (see prophecy, spirit of prophecy) by the Holy Ghost (sealed by signs and wonders, testified by multiple witnesses). That body is the Seventh-day Adventist movement, which clings to the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ, having the faith of Jesus, and keep His commandments.

This might help others:

https://archive.org/download/amazing-facts-pocket-book-joe-crews-library-of-sermons-21-the-search-for-the-true-church/Amazing Facts - Pocket Book - Joe Crews - Library Of Sermons 21 - The Search For The True Church.pdf

Your question and sentence "I trust The Church? Who do you believe is 'communicating to the body on earth via the Holy Ghost' in the year 2020?", implies a two fold division, that of "the Church" and then "the body".

Got it...You trust YOURSELF to properly interpret Scripture.

I already knew that....I thought maybe you would throw me a few names of men you read/study/respect etc.

None the less....thank you.

 

[Marymog]

Actually, the Seventh-day Adventist faith goes all the way back to Adam, and up into Heaven before that, and does not merely stop off in the 1st century AD.

Adam, was a Seventh-day Adventist. So was Abel, Seth, Enoch, Methuselah, Noah, Shem, Abraham, Job, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Joshua, ... Samuel, David, Solomon, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Malachi ... James, Peter, John, Paul ...

The Reformation begun well before the 16th century, with even the Morning Star, Wycliffe himself (Daniel 11), and others before him and after him, Huss, Jerome, Patrick of Ireland, and so many others. It also existed outside of Roman Catholicism, with the Paulicians, Albigensi, Passagini, Vaudois, Valdensi, Sabbatini, Insabbati, &c. whom Luther and others met with, who were never Roman Catholic.

Our name and roots bear who we are, belonging unto the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, the First and the Last, the Author and Finisher, and all inbetween, we claim as our heritage. We claim Adam, and Abel, Seth and Enoch, Noah and Job and Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Israel), Joseph and Moses, Joshua and Samuel, David and Solomon, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and Daniel and all the others, unto John the Baptist, Jesus, Peter, James, John, Jude and Paul, those of the way, the Vaudois, Waldenses, the Passagini, Insabbati, Sabbatini, Albigensi, etc., Wycliffe, Huss, Luther, Calvin, Knox, Zwingli, Melanchthon,Tyndale, Patrick of Ireland, Jerome, Rogers, Wishart, Wesley, Gill and so many others.

Ours is the oldest religion, stemming from God Himself in Heaven above.

Read - Truth Triumphant - https://archive.org/download/doctrine-bible-benjamin-g-wilkinson-truth-triumphant/Doctrine - Bible - Benjamin G Wilkinson - Truth Triumphant.pdf

Read - The Great Controversy - https://archive.org/download/sda-ellen-g-white-the-great-controversy-1911_202005/SDA - Ellen G White - The Great Controversy 1911.pdf

The least you could do, is read the entirety of those two works, even as I have read countless materials of Catholicism (bulls, encyclicals, briefs, letters, etc), and also going all the way back into the 'ecf', 'Syrian', "eastern' etc materials, and others, Augustine, Origen, Aquinas, and many other names.

See for yourself (start at this point and keep reading) - Martin Luther and William Tyndale on the State of the Dead.

I was kicked out of CAF (again, 30th time? 35th time? idk, lost count a long time ago, thank God they are closing soon) for posting:

Conditionalists & Annihilationists In ECF, Eastern & Syriac, Catholic, Protestant & Churches In General - What in the

They could not answer me, and decided to be rid of me, even deleting a part of what I wrote.

Yes, you are clear. I pray that I am as well.

Wow....fascinating. Thank you for your time.

Mary

 

[theefaith]

I trust in the LORD God (JEHOVAH Elohiym), God our Father in Heaven, and our Head, Jesus Christ, who works through His body on earth, including through the gifts given to that body (see prophecy, spirit of prophecy) by the Holy Ghost (sealed by signs and wonders, testified by multiple witnesses). That body is the Seventh-day Adventist movement, which clings to the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ, having the faith of Jesus, and keep His commandments.

This might help others:

https://archive.org/download/amazing-facts-pocket-book-joe-crews-library-of-sermons-21-the-search-for-the-true-church/Amazing Facts - Pocket Book - Joe Crews - Library Of Sermons 21 - The Search For The True Church.pdf

Your question and sentence "I trust The Church? Who do you believe is 'communicating to the body on earth via the Holy Ghost' in the year 2020?", implies a two fold division, that of "the Church" and then "the body".

the church, the body, the kingdom, the new covenant are all the same

SDA movement that’s impossible, the one true church was founded by Christ 2000 yrs ago Matt 16:18 the SDA is only a few hundred yrs old

the one true church is universal Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16

SDA is not universal or even international

SDA has no connection to Christ and Peter and the apostles or their successors Matt 16:18 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Major covenants!

Adam:
(Marriage covenant)

Noah:
(Family covenant)

Abraham:
(Tribal covenant)

Moses:
(National covenant)

Jesus Christ:
(Universal covenant)

New and eternal covenant founded by Jesus Christ! Matt 16:18

Universal (Catholic)
World universal

Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. ( catholic universal)

Lk 2:31 prepared before the face of all (catholic) people

Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes way the sins of the world

Jn 3:16 for God so loved the world

1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


so it cannot be the one true church founded by Christ

 

[theefaith]

All those who believed and taught error and heresy

only the true church of Jesus Christ founded on Peter and the apostles is free from error

albigensians believed not in the one true God but believed in a god of good (spiritual) a god of evil (matter)
The apostles condemned all these heretics who all teach opposing doctrine

 

[theefaith]

The Seventh-Day Adventists were founded by William Miller (1782-1849).

Fundamentalist tripe

 

[WaterSong]

Hi WS,

Show me in Scripture where Jesus repeated the "Keep holy the Sabbath" commandment!!!

He talks about the other 9 but NEVER that one!! The one commandment you are defending He never defends!!!! Think about it!!!

Do the research and find out for yourself. Stop reading letters from 16th century men like John Knox and read letters from 1st century men. Information tends to reach people if they seek it on their own out of a desire to know. Whereas having no respect for someone who tells you these 2,000 year old truths will lead to dismissal of the relevant and true information under discussion.

Keeping it real....Mary

Keeping it real? Really ?
Why would Jesus need to reiterate keeping the Sabbath that he created for us? Remember? Jesus, who was God, said, the Sabbath was made for man(us), we were not made for the Sabbath. (Mark 2)
Wouldn't it be an odd thing if in the new testament good news of salvation by God's grace we were to infer faith saves, but the Sabbath that was originally made for us is now void? HI! You're saved if you hold faith and this through my grace but I'm making null and void that Sabbath thing I made for you in the beginning. Oops! Sorry!

Jesus reiterated the commands in his sermon on the mount too. Matthew 5.
Oh, no mention of Sabbath? Why would he? Remember the Sabbath day.....Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath.
Keeping the Sabbath doesn't save.
With all that is in the new testament teachings of Jesus in his bringing to us the new covenant, remembering there was an old covenant at one time too, if the Sabbath was no longer relevant, Jesus would have said so. He didn't.

He said, if you love me you will keep my commands.
Remember the Sabbath day. (Take a day off on that day I made for you.Mark 2 paraphrase)

 

[WaterSong]

Yup, that's what good Jews did....they honored the Sabbath. Not breaking news kiddo!!!

God made the Sabbath for us. Why would he strip the Sabbath from we who are all one in Christ Jesus after Jesus died to seal the new covenant?
And I ask you to please not condescend to me and refer to me as kiddo. I'm not your child and I am far removed from being a kid.
We are all spiritual Israel. And there is no Jew, no Gentile, No Greek, no male, no female. We are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28

 

[ReChoired]

...
Universal (Catholic)
World universal

Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. ( catholic universal)

Luk 2:10 και ειπεν αυτοις ο αγγελος μη φοβεισθε ιδου γαρ ευαγγελιζομαι υμιν χαραν μεγαλην ητις εσται παντι τω λαω​

It doesn't even use the koine Greek word, "kath" or "olos". It says, panti - all, tw - the, law - people.

...
Universal (Catholic)
World universal

Lk 2:31 prepared before the face of all (catholic) people

Luk 2:31 ο ητοιμασας κατα προσωπον παντων των λαων​

Again, it doesn't even use the koine Greek word, "kath" or "olos". It says, pantwn - all, twn - the, lawn - people.

 

[ReChoired]

The Seventh-Day Adventists were founded by William Miller (1782-1849).

Fundamentalist tripe

Um, no. Even from a simplistic historical position, that is just simply incorrect.

 

[ReChoired]

SDA is not ...even international

The Seventh-day Adventist movement is in nearly every country on earth.

"... Countries and Areas of the World as Recognized by the United Nations 235
Countries and Areas of the World in Which Seventh-day Adventist Work is Established 213..." - Seventh-day Adventist World Church Statistics 2018 | Adventist.org

"... This entry lists Seventh-day Adventist membership worldwide as of 2004. Membership is defined as baptised and active...." -
Countries Compared by Religion > Seventh-day Adventist Membership. International Statistics at NationMaster.com

There is only one other religion that is even close.

 

[WaterSong]

Good morning WS,

Not true. I didn't acknowledge that the Roman Catholic Church changed Sabbath day from Saturday to Sunday. .....

Where does the Bible say...


Where does the Bible say...

Good morining WS,

Ummmm....I didn't show you where they "practiced the Sabbath on Saturday" I showed you opposite sooooooo I don't know what you are talking about!!!!

And the person I quoted, Ignatius of Antioch, adhered to Sunday.....just like The Church does. Ignatius also believed in the Real Presence in the Eucharist AND no salvation outside The Church etc etc.....He was Catholic that is why he is quoted by The Church alllll the time!!! That is why you are scared of him because a man that was taught by an Apostle does not teach what your 16th century Reformers taught.

I asked you to "share the earliest writings from the leaders of your Church showing they practiced The Lords Day on Saturday" You failed.

I thought Saul sought out Christians for punishment.....not Jews?

Curious Mary

Happy to burst your bubble, I didn't fail.
I've already told you how the Jews counted days, and that Sabbath day is Saturday. The Lord rested on the seventh day. That would be the 7th day of the week.
If you don't wish to accept what I know about that day being Saturday per the Hebrew calendar, look it up for yourself.
Genesis, God rested on the 7th day and that day he made holy, that day was the Sabbath.
We read this in the first book of the Jews Torah, aka Pentateuch, Genesis. The Jewish Sabbath

https://wearehebrew.com/sabbath-shabbat-keeping/

I thought Saul sought out Christians for punishment.....not Jews?

The first "Christians", were apostate Jews. I.E. , Jesus' Disciples/Apostles were Jews.
Saul/Paul, wouldn't have set out to prosecute gentiles for being Christian. Saul/Paul, a Pharisee, and for all that means in his time, prosecuted Jews that turned to the Christ the temple elders had accused of blasphemy and teaching a false doctrine.
A Pharisee had no jurisdiction over gentiles.

 

[WaterSong]

Good morning WS,

Not true. I didn't acknowledge that the Roman Catholic Church changed Sabbath day from Saturday to Sunday. .....

Post #278 Where does the Bible say...
"I agree with you. My Church did change the Sabbath. I don't think I ever disagreed with you on that."

 

[ReChoired]

albigensians believed not in the one true God but believed in a god of good (spiritual) a god of evil (matter)

I think you are referring to some few Cathari, but even then there is a stigma associated with them, that is generally not true.

Never the less, I mentioned the Albigensi. Voltaire (the ever consumate Jesuit noted):

"... [page 60] Auricular confession was not received so late as the eighth and ninth centuries in the countries beyond the Loire, in Languedoc and the Alps -- Alcuin complains of this in his letters. The inhabitants of those countries appear to have always had an inclina- [page 60-61] tion to abide by the custom of the primitive church, and to reject the tenets and customs which the church in its more flourishing state judged convenient to adopt. ...

... [page 77] Those who were called Manicheans, and those who were afterwards named Albigenses, Vaudois, Lollards, and who appeared so often under different names, were remnants of the first Gaulish christians, who were attached to several ancient customs, which the church of Rome thought proper to alter afterwards; as likewise to certain vague opinions, which that same church adopted in process of time; for example, these primitive Christians knew nothing of image-worship. They had never been enjoined auricular confession. We must not suppose, that, in the time of Clovis, or those preceeding his reign, the inhabitants of the Alps were adepts in the dogma of transubstantiation, and such like. ..." - The works of M. De Voltaire. Translated from the French. With Notes, Historical and Critical. By T. Smollett, M.D. T. Francklin, M.A. and Others. Volume the Twenty-Second. LONDON: Printed for J. Newbery, R. Baldwin, W. Johnston, S. Crowder, T. Davies, J. Coote, G. Kearsley, and B. Collins at Salisbury. MDCCLXIII (1763) pages 60-61, 77 - The Works of M. de Voltaire: Additions to the essay on general history. v. 32-33. Miscellaneous poems​

 

[WaterSong]

John Knox taught Saturday worship for Christians. Soooooo are you telling me that you don't follow that teaching?

What? Twice doesn't get that point across? OK, let me go for three. I do not follow John Knox.


Well, I am confused now....I thought you were defending Saturday (not Sunday) as the Christian Sabbath....[/QUOTE] Where in the scripture are we told Sabbath day was on Sunday?
You admit your church changed Sabbath day from Saturday.....If Sabbath day wasn't on Saturday how was there anything for your church to change? From Saturday unto Sunday.

 

[WaterSong]

Hi WS,

You are asking the wrong question. The question is Why DID the apostles abandon Sabbath day after Jesus ascended?

Did you even read the article you mentioned in your post???? By the end of the first century, Sunday worship was the norm. We can assume the change caused some friction, for in Colossians 2:16 Paul admonishes, "Therefore do no let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day."

Of course I read the article. You merely excerpted for your own purposes. The full article doesn't say what you are hoping to imply there. When in actuality the article answers your repeated question asking for proof the early church, which began with Jesus, observed Sabbath on what we today call, Saturday.

CT Article: When did the Christian church switch the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday?

No specific names or dates are associated with the church's shift from observing the holy day on Saturday to observing it on Sunday. At first, especially when many Christians were converted Jews, their holy day was Saturday. However, because the Resurrection and the beginning of Creation had both occurred on the first day of the week (Sunday), the church soon observed that day instead. (More Gentiles were becoming Christians as well, which contributed to a desire to shake off Jewish customs.) By the end of the first century, Sunday worship was the norm. We can assume the change caused some friction, for in Colossians 2:16 Paul admonishes, "Therefore do no let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day."

It's important to note that the Sabbath was not simply moved; Christians altered the observance as well as the day. Hallmarks of the early Christian "Lord's day" celebration, according to Justin Martyr (ca. 100-ca. 165), included readings from Scripture (particularly the Gospels), a sermon, communal prayer, and Communion—very different from Jewish Sabbath observance. By Jewish standards, Christians don't keep the Sabbath at all. [end CT article]
(My Note: We've already seen in this thread that the Sabbath was changed/moved, from Saturday to Sunday).

Show me in Scripture where Jesus commanded them to continue Saturday Sabbath and I will join your denomination TODAY!

See the above article and the bolded first part.

Further, you are making the wrong challenge. And it is intellectually dishonest to ask for the scripture where Jesus commanded them to continue Saturday Sabbath. Sabbath day is the issue. The seventh day is Sabbath day.
The onus is on you to show in scripture where Jesus abolished the Sabbath.
Barring that, using your language, show in scripture where Jesus changed Sabbath day to Sunday.
Let me save you the trouble. After Jesus ascended, per the scriptures, no, I won't post them for you, we read that the Apostles observed the Sabbath.
When the Apostles observed the Sabbath after Jesus ascended it is evidence the Sabbath was still observed.

I see in Acts where they went to the Synagogue to try and convert the Jews by preaching to them about Jesus! What a brilliant idea on their part!! Go where you know they are going to be on Saturday!!

Imagine that.

I also see in Scripture where they gathered on the Lords Day and were instructed to have charitable gifts/money ready on Sunday for Paul when he arrived.

Mary

Yes. The Lords day is not Sabbath day, the seventh day of the week.
The Lords day is so named because that is the first day of the week and the day Jesus resurrected. Mark 16:9 9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.

 

[WaterSong]

Hi WS,

The Church has mass every day of the week in the churches were there are enough priest, enough of population etc to support daily mass so that we can receive our "daily bread" (Matthew 6:11). This practice, in effect, makes everyday the Lords Day for The Church. However, Scripture and historical Christian writings make it clear that Sunday is the Lords Day and the reason why. You are trying to convince me that the Christians who walked and talked with the Apostles and closest to the lives of the Apostles were wrong when they practiced Sunday worship and that your 16th century teaching is valid. You will never convince me kiddo.....

When one is wrong.....they should be chastised. But at least they worship Him?

What's missed in your postings concerning Sabbath Saturday, which you object to being Sabbath day per the scriptures, is that well before this posting I showed you, and you agreed later, that "your church" changed Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.
Why then do you insist Sabbath day was not Saturday, per the scriptures?

And while the RCC may claim every day is the Lords day, and it is true everyday is the day the Lord hath made, in point of fact the Lords day is not Sabbath day. The Lords day is so named because that is the first day of the week and the day Jesus resurrected. Mark 16:9 9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.

 

[ReChoired]

Got it...You trust YOURSELF to properly interpret Scripture.

Strawman. I said no such thing. My position has always been, Genesis 40:8; 2 Peter 1:20; Isaiah 8:20, 28:10,13. God interprets scripture, I simply "Amen" what God already said in the word.

 

[theefaith]

Keeping it real? Really ?
Why would Jesus need to reiterate keeping the Sabbath that he created for us? Remember? Jesus, who was God, said, the Sabbath was made for man(us), we were not made for the Sabbath. (Mark 2)
Wouldn't it be an odd thing if in the new testament good news of salvation by God's grace we were to infer faith saves, but the Sabbath that was originally made for us is now void? HI! You're saved if you hold faith and this through my grace but I'm making null and void that Sabbath thing I made for you in the beginning. Oops! Sorry!

Jesus reiterated the commands in his sermon on the mount too. Matthew 5.
Oh, no mention of Sabbath? Why would he? Remember the Sabbath day.....Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath.
Keeping the Sabbath doesn't save.
With all that is in the new testament teachings of Jesus in his bringing to us the new covenant, remembering there was an old covenant at one time too, if the Sabbath was no longer relevant, Jesus would have said so. He didn't.

He said, if you love me you will keep my commands.
Remember the Sabbath day. (Take a day off on that day I made for you.Mark 2 paraphrase)

faith alone does not save either Mk 16:16

behold I make all things new including the sabbath and the Passover

Do Christians have to keep the old Passover also?

 

[theefaith]

Luk 2:10 και ειπεν αυτοις ο αγγελος μη φοβεισθε ιδου γαρ ευαγγελιζομαι υμιν χαραν μεγαλην ητις εσται παντι τω λαω​

It doesn't even use the koine Greek word, "kath" or "olos". It says, panti - all, tw - the, law - people.

Luk 2:31 ο ητοιμασας κατα προσωπον παντων των λαων​

Again, it doesn't even use the koine Greek word, "kath" or "olos". It says, pantwn - all, twn - the, lawn - people.

still says “all” not a few SDA’s after 1850

 

[theefaith]

Um, no. Even from a simplistic historical position, that is just simply incorrect.

that wiki historical fact


The Seventh-day Adventist Church had its roots in the Millerite movement of the 1830s to the 1840s, during the period of the Second Great Awakening, and was officially founded in 1863.

typical fundamentalism
Based on pride presumption and arrogance

William booth did not found the Salvation Army either