Where does the Bible say...

[WaterSong]

Why does the devil love to trap people in the old sabbath? Cos it’s of the first creation and he owns it but hates the new creation in Christ Jesus!

the sabbath was for the Jews to keep, we are Christians not jews
There is neither Jew nor Greek but all are one in Christ

the ceremonial law was fulfilled

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary tous, and took it out of the way, nailing it tohis cross;

You omitted verse 16. Perhaps because you are acting contrary to its wisdom?
Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

The ceremonial law included the sacrificial system. Animals, blood, altars. And pointed to the coming of the pure unblemished lamb, the final sacrifice and for the sins of the whole world; Jesus the Christ, Messiah. \
That is what was nailed to the cross. The ceremonial sacrificial system. " 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him."
The Mosaic law, its ordinances, were nailed to the cross. Jesus perfect sacrifice as that unblemished lamb of God ended that sacrificial, ceremonial, system. Because the ceremonial sacrificial system was practiced when one sinned against the law of the ten commands.
Jesus replaced that law of ceremonial sacrifice by becoming the remedy for sin.

That is separate and apart from honoring the Sabbath God made for us.

Jesus died for us. Where does it say Jesus nullified the Sabbath on the cross? If he did this, then his apostles sinned against his edict for having observed the Sabbath after Jesus ascended.

Where in that chapter of Colossians does it state exactly the sabbath was an ordinance against the faithful?
When Jesus had said, the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. (And by God). Per your argument that would mean God ordained the Sabbath, made the Sabbath, as an ordinance against man. Which precludes it being for man.

 

[theefaith]

Baptism with water means nothing then?
The Anathema's, FACAGA, are not so per the RCC?
Lumping them together like that, FACAGA(FaithAloneChristAloneGraceAlone), is not 'alone'. It is a triune unit. FaithChristGrace.

it is water baptism as an outward sign of initiation into the new covenant
A sacrament signifies what it accomplishes
Water baptism signifies wash and the grace of God washes away all sin


1 Pet 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

 

[theefaith]

You omitted verse 16. Perhaps because you are acting contrary to its wisdom?
Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

The ceremonial law included the sacrificial system. Animals, blood, altars. And pointed to the coming of the pure unblemished lamb, the final sacrifice and for the sins of the whole world; Jesus the Christ, Messiah. \
That is what was nailed to the cross. The ceremonial sacrificial system. " 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him."
The Mosaic law, its ordinances, were nailed to the cross. Jesus perfect sacrifice as that unblemished lamb of God ended that sacrificial, ceremonial, system. Because the ceremonial sacrificial system was practiced when one sinned against the law of the ten commands.
Jesus replaced that law of ceremonial sacrifice by becoming the remedy for sin.

That is separate and apart from honoring the Sabbath God made for us.

Jesus died for us. Where does it say Jesus nullified the Sabbath on the cross? If he did this, then his apostles sinned against his edict for having observed the Sabbath after Jesus ascended.

Where in that chapter of Colossians does it state exactly the sabbath was an ordinance against the faithful?
When Jesus had said, the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. (And by God). Per your argument that would mean God ordained the Sabbath, made the Sabbath, as an ordinance against man. Which precludes it being for man.

still required to worship in spirit and truth
The holy sacrifice of the mass is perfect worship

 

[WaterSong]

it is water baptism as an outward sign of initiation into the new covenant
A sacrament signifies what it accomplishes
Water baptism signifies wash and the grace of God washes away all sin


1 Pet 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

Roman Catholics practice immersion Baptism?

 

[theefaith]

Yes
And sprinkling
And pouring
As long as it is plain running water over the forehead 3 times with the words “I baptize thee in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit

 

[Marymog]

Keeping it real? Really ?
Why would Jesus need to reiterate keeping the Sabbath that he created for us? Remember? Jesus, who was God, said, the Sabbath was made for man(us), we were not made for the Sabbath. (Mark 2)
Wouldn't it be an odd thing if in the new testament good news of salvation by God's grace we were to infer faith saves, but the Sabbath that was originally made for us is now void? HI! You're saved if you hold faith and this through my grace but I'm making null and void that Sabbath thing I made for you in the beginning. Oops! Sorry!

Jesus reiterated the commands in his sermon on the mount too. Matthew 5.
Oh, no mention of Sabbath? Why would he? Remember the Sabbath day.....Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath.
Keeping the Sabbath doesn't save.
With all that is in the new testament teachings of Jesus in his bringing to us the new covenant, remembering there was an old covenant at one time too, if the Sabbath was no longer relevant, Jesus would have said so. He didn't.

He said, if you love me you will keep my commands.
Remember the Sabbath day. (Take a day off on that day I made for you.Mark 2 paraphrase)

He did say if you love me you will keep my commandments. It seems you agree with me that he DIDN”T say keep holy the Saturday Sabbath since you said “Why would Jesus need to reiterate keeping the Sabbath...” He only repeated the other 9 commandments. Why is that WS????

Show me in Scripture where He said keep the commandment of the Saturday Sabbath and I will follow the men you follow who teach that. I will not let you or the men you follow judge me on what “Sabbath” day I keep which is what Scripture tells me to do.

Baptism is the new covenant. The Church has taught that for 2,000 year and most of your Protestant friends agree with that. Why don’t you?

Keeping it real....Mary

 

[Marymog]

God made the Sabbath for us. Why would he strip the Sabbath from we who are all one in Christ Jesus after Jesus died to seal the new covenant?
And I ask you to please not condescend to me and refer to me as kiddo. I'm not your child and I am far removed from being a kid.
We are all spiritual Israel. And there is no Jew, no Gentile, No Greek, no male, no female. We are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28

Yup, God made the Sabbath for us. Scripture says to not let anyone judge you on what Sabbath you keep. Why are you judging? Why does Scripture say that? Answer: Because the NT Christians practiced Sunday as their Sabbath. Do you have another explanation for that passage.

Kiddo is an enduring term. I use it with my kids. No harm meant.

How can we be all one in Christ if we all disagree with His teaching And disagree with the 2,000 year teaching of The Church? Your logic makes no sense!!!

Mary

 

[ReChoired]

Scripture says to not let anyone judge you on what Sabbath you keep.

Where does it say that?

https://archive.org/download/colossians-2vs-16/Colossians 2vs16.pptx

 

[Marymog]

Where does the Bible say...


Where does the Bible say....

Lol....I see what your getting at. Your allegation is that the RCC changed it. The Church, which has it’s leader stationed in Rome, didn’t change it because The Church was not stationed in Rome when the Apostles changed it. The Apostles changed it in the 1st century. Your Protestant friends tried to change it back in the 16th century. I have a Christian history book I can recommend if you want to research it yourself. It was written by a Protestant who disagrees with you and the men you follow.

Let me know if you want the name of that book....Mary

 

[Marymog]

Where does it say that?

https://archive.org/download/colossians-2vs-16/Colossians 2vs16.pptx

Ummm...how about if you quote Scripture instead of posting videos to support what theory you have?

 

[ReChoired]

Ummm...how about if you quote Scripture instead of posting videos to support what theory you have?

The scripture is quoted, see the video and powerpoint if you don't want video. If you watch them, you might pick up something.

 

[WaterSong]

You can link all the 500 year old Protestant teachings you want. It doesn’t burst my bubble. I follow the 2,000 year teaching of The Church.

Firstly? "Your church" isn't 2000 years old. Therefore, it cannot have taught anything to anyone for 2000 years.
In point of fact "your church" was founded in 590 CE, with Pope Gregory I. Trace the History of the Roman Catholic Church

Why don’t you?

Because I follow the more than 2000 year old teachings of the Messiah Jesus Christ. That's why.

 

[WaterSong]

Lol....I see what your getting at. Your allegation is that the RCC changed it. The Church, which has it’s leader stationed in Rome, didn’t change it because The Church was not stationed in Rome when the Apostles changed it. The Apostles changed it in the 1st century. Your Protestant friends tried to change it back in the 16th century. I have a Christian history book I can recommend if you want to research it yourself. It was written by a Protestant who disagrees with you and the men you follow.

Let me know if you want the name of that book....Mary

To begin, and I will state this only once as you attempt to insist by implication that I am not Christian as you repeatedly state I follow either John Knox, or as now, the men.
I follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. Not men. I hope that is clear enough for you that you refrain in future from bearing false witness.

Secondly and for context and clarity: The Sabbath is what you are referring to in your quote. In the event someone may be reading late and not know what is under discussion in these particular posts.

To continue: And wishing to address that part of your reply that I made to be in bold text.

Why would you say that? When on page 14 of this thread, and your post #278 , you said this.*note: The bold in the pasted posting is Mary's writing. I did not bold that part of her pasted reply. Just for clarity*
Hi watersong,

I agree with you. My Church did change the Sabbath. I don't think I ever disagreed with you on that.

The very first concrete evidence we have of the men of my Church acknowledging that the Sabbath had been changed from Saturday to Sunday was in a writing by a student of the Apostle John. He was one of the first Bishops in my Church. It was Ignatius, surnamed Theophoros, who was bishop of Antioch in the 1st century. He wrote: “[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death”

Would you care to share the earliest writings from the leaders of your Church showing they practiced The Lords Day on Saturday????

God bless....Patient Mary

 

[WaterSong]

He did say if you love me you will keep my commandments. It seems you agree with me that he DIDN”T say keep holy the Saturday Sabbath since you said “Why would Jesus need to reiterate keeping the Sabbath...” He only repeated the other 9 commandments. Why is that WS????

Because Jesus had taught them that the Sabbath was made for man. For them.
Whereas prior to Christ, and if you recall the Pharisees taking issue with Jesus and his Disciples working on the Sabbath when performing healings (Jesus), or even eating grain in their travels, the tradition made man a servant of the Sabbath and therein lending the idea that man was made to serve the Sabbath.
“the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath” Mark 2:27
He also told them he, Jesus, was Lord of the Sabbath.
He also taught that it is lawful to serve God, do good, on the Sabbath. And he lead by example as well. Matthew 12:12

Show me in Scripture where He said keep the commandment of the Saturday Sabbath and I will follow the men you follow who teach that. I will not let you or the men you follow judge me on what “Sabbath” day I keep which is what Scripture tells me to do.

There is only one Sabbath day. And you do not observe the Sabbath therefore there is no issue with regard to your claim I or anyone judges you in that regard.
Whereas you repeatedly judge those who hold to the teachings about the Sabbath. And even confuse when the Sabbath was changed and by whom.
God decreed Sabbath day and blessed that seventh day. Genesis 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
I have already posted links to Catholic sources that state it was the church, your church, that changed the day God decreed holy. And as someone said earlier in this thread, because the church had that right.

Baptism is the new covenant.

Actually, if you recall, John the Baptist, or John the Baptizer, was Baptizing people prior to Jesus arriving at the Jordan wherein he asked to be Baptized by John.
This tells us, as does the old testament, that immersion for purifying the unclean was a practice in the old testament. It was not called "Baptism", from the Greek baptisma, which is to say, a dipping in water.
In the old testament the "Baptism" practice was referred to as Mikvah.
The Jews John the Baptist preached to and Baptized received their Baptism because they knew the meaning of that practice was for washing, cleansing that which is a sin or unclean.
Why doesn't your church teach you that?

The Church has taught that for 2,000 year and most of your Protestant friends agree with that. Why don’t you?

Keeping it real....Mary

Actually, the teachings of Jesus are far older than 2000 years. And you are mistaken or purposefully false to state I do not agree with Baptism or know about it.

 

[Marymog]

Jesus reiterated the commands in his sermon on the mount too. Matthew 5.
Oh, no mention of Sabbath? Why would he? Remember the Sabbath day.....Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath.

Hi WS,

Yup, you finally got it. Jesus NEVER talks about keeping that commandment. He talks about the other 9 but NEVER that one.....only you Sabbatarians keep talking about it!!

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of rest/worship. Any day can be a day of rest/worship. You choose to adhere to the traditional Saturday Jewish practice. Us Christians choose Sunday!!

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days:

WHY did Paul say that in a letter written about 30 years after the death of Christ????? Think about it!!!

ANSWER: Because the NT Christians were NOT practicing the Jewish Saturday Sabbath when Paul was alive. They were practicing on SUNDAY!!!

There are other historical Christian writings that back up that FACT....Please, don't believe me. Do your own homework instead of following other men!!

Keeping it real....Bible study and historical Mary

 

[Marymog]

If you don't wish to accept what I know about that day being Saturday per the Hebrew calendar, look it up for yourself.
Genesis, God rested on the 7th day and that day he made holy, that day was the Sabbath.....

Hey WS,

Ok.....I looked it up. The text of Genesis states that God blessed and hallowed the seventh day, not the Sabbath. Your 500 year teaching of the men you follow conflate the seventh day with the Sabbath and read back into the Genesis story a divine creation of the Sabbath that Scripture records as having occurred much later.The first mention of the Sabbath as a holy day created by the Lord is in Exodus 16:23. In that passage The Sabbath as a holy day is a law announced by Moses which means that the Sabbath is part of the Mosaic Law. You and your ilk choose to hold to the Mosaic Law. Us Christians don't!!!

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Post #278 Where does the Bible say...
"I agree with you. My Church did change the Sabbath. I don't think I ever disagreed with you on that."

I addressed this in a different post but I will address it again.

You are alleging that the RCC, my Church, changed the Sabbath. Since the RCC is The Church started by Christ then yes in effect my Church changed the Sabbath HOWEVER The Church was not stationed in Rome at the time so it was not the "RCC" that changed it...it was just The Church.

Hope that clears it up.

 

[Marymog]

What? Twice doesn't get that point across? OK, let me go for three. I do not follow John Knox.

Ok....Let's try this again. I didn't ask you if you follow John Knox. Here is the question I asked you QUOTE Soooooo are you telling me that you don't follow that teaching? END QUOTE

Keeping it real...Mary

 

[Marymog]

Where in the scripture are we told Sabbath day was on Sunday?
You admit your church changed Sabbath day from Saturday.....If Sabbath day wasn't on Saturday how was there anything for your church to change? From Saturday unto Sunday.

Hi WS,

Nowhere in Scripture does it directly say that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday.

Where in Scripture does it say that Christians are told to keep practicing the Jewish Sabbath? IT DOESN'T and the NT Christians DIDN'T!!!

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days:

WHY did Paul say that in a letter written about 30 years after the death of Christ?????

ANSWER: Because the NT Christians were NOT practicing the Jewish Saturday Sabbath when Paul was alive. They were practicing on SUNDAY!!!

Christian Historical writings from the time SUPPORT this.

The Church DID change "Sabbath" from Saturday to Sunday. It is written in the NT....you just refuse to acknowledge it.

Keeping it real....Bible study and historical Mary

 

[Marymog]

Strawman. I said no such thing. My position has always been, Genesis 40:8; 2 Peter 1:20; Isaiah 8:20, 28:10,13. God interprets scripture, I simply "Amen" what God already said in the word.

Ummmmm....God gave us Scripture. Man interprets it. That is why we have sooooo many different interpretations.