Revelation 17

[Heart2Soul]

FYI...this thread is NOT about the Catholic church so please do not turn it into one.
Here are the main points.
1. Mystery Babylon...who is it
2. She sits on the city of 7 hills/mountains..what city is this?
3. Surrounded by water
4. Made rich with the merchant ships
5. Other nations are drunk with her wine.

 

[Enoch111]

You should get with your Protestant brothers who are Christian historians and despise The Church like you do because they would disagree with you.

Why don't you read and study History of the Christian Church by Philip Schaff? Here is what he said and it is historically true:

"...Constantine, the first Christian Caesar, the founder of Constantinople and the Byzantine empire, and one of the most gifted, energetic, and successful of the Roman emperors, was the first representative of the imposing idea of a Christian theocracy, or of that system of policy which assumes all subjects to be Christians, connects civil and religious rights, and regards church and state as the two arms of one and the same divine government on earth...Constantine adopted Christianity first as a superstition, and put it by the side of his heathen superstition, till finally in his conviction the Christian vanquished the pagan, though without itself developing into a pure and enlightened faith..."

In plain English pagan Rome became Christian Rome outwardly, though only a few would be genuine Christians inwardly. The real issue is whether you desire truth or fables.

 

[Enoch111]

FYI...this thread is NOT about the Catholic church so please do not turn it into one.

How can it not be about the Catholic Church, which is called "Mystery Babylon?"

 

[Heart2Soul]

How can it not be about the Catholic Church, which is called "Mystery Babylon?"

Is it? I am not so sure. It is even contended that New York City is mystery Babylon.

 

[Bobby Jo]

FYI...this thread is NOT about the Catholic church so please do not turn it into one.
Here are the main points.
1. Mystery Babylon...who is it
2. She sits on the city of 7 hills/mountains..what city is this?
3. Surrounded by water
4. Made rich with the merchant ships
5. Other nations are drunk with her wine.

Dear H2S,

"this thread is NOT about the Catholic church so please do not turn it into one."

I AGREE! Rev. 17 stands on it's own, in accordance with World History!​

1. Mystery Babylon...who is it

Babylon is as History accounts:

The Babylonian Empire was “the first true metropolis in western history, a business as well as an administrative center”[1] -- the prototype of governments as we see them to this day. The Babylonians controlled trade and commerce across western Asia, from the Mediterranean Sea to the Persian Gulf, building highways, legislating business, and creating the first amusement park -- the third Wonder of the World -- the Hanging Gardens.

[1] John B. Christopher and Robert Lee Wolf, A History of Civilization, Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, 1967, p. 35
​

And the creators of "Superman" were more wise than the church because they saw the PINNACLE CITY OF THE WORLD, -- NYC --, as "Metropolis". And so we see the evolution of this model from controlling Trade, building Libraries, and even creating the First Amusement Park, to controlling the Ounces of dispensed sugary carbonated beverages.
​

2. She sits on the city of 7 hills/mountains..what city is this?

It's not a true "city", it's the Metropolis Model. And the 7 mountains are the 7 World Empires:

1. Gold, Babylon
2. Silver, Medo/Persia
3. Bronze, Greece
4. Iron, Rome
-- Clay, "Divided Kingdom":
-- 5. Lion/Eagle, U.K./U.S.
-- 6. Bear, Russia
-- 7. Leopard (actually a TIGER), China
-- 8. "Dreadful", United Nations, - what "was and is not" because it has NO Geography, NO Populous, NO Army, etc.
​

3. Surrounded by water

As already provided, NYC is the PINNACLE CITY, and the RESIDENT CITY of the U.N. But the U.N. will be relocated to the "Contested City" of Jerusalem where the U.N. and the False Prophet will be destroyed.

​

4. Made rich with the merchant ships

And again, NYC is the commerce city of the world, which the World Trade Center "TWIN TOWERS" once evidenced.
​

5. Other nations are drunk with her wine.

Again, World Trade Center.
​

And to validate, consider where Rev. 13 depicts: the LION (and eagle) as the MOUTH because the U.K./U.S. are proficient in Finance, Trade, Science, & Technology; the LEOPARD (actually a TIGER) as the BODY because China has the largest Population; and the BEAR as the FEET because Russia has the Most Land Mass, -- with 3M ea for the U.S., Canada, and China, but 8M for Russia.


But to also point out, -- "Canada" was originally called "CND" until asked to spell it, and replied with "C" aye, "N"aye, "D" aye, which was misunderstood as CaNaDa.= Canada. TRUE STORY!

Bobby Jo

 

[Heart2Soul]

Dear H2S,

"this thread is NOT about the Catholic church so please do not turn it into one."

I AGREE! Rev. 17 stands on it's own, in accordance with World History!​

1. Mystery Babylon...who is it

Babylon is as History accounts:

The Babylonian Empire was “the first true metropolis in western history, a business as well as an administrative center”[1] -- the prototype of governments as we see them to this day. The Babylonians controlled trade and commerce across western Asia, from the Mediterranean Sea to the Persian Gulf, building highways, legislating business, and creating the first amusement park -- the third Wonder of the World -- the Hanging Gardens.

[1] John B. Christopher and Robert Lee Wolf, A History of Civilization, Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, 1967, p. 35
​

And the creators of "Superman" were more wise than the church because they saw the PINNACLE CITY OF THE WORLD, -- NYC --, as "Metropolis". And so we see the evolution of this model from controlling Trade, building Libraries, and even creating the First Amusement Park, to controlling the Ounces of dispensed sugary carbonated beverages.​

2. She sits on the city of 7 hills/mountains..what city is this?

It's a "city", it's the Metropolis Model. And the 7 mountains are the 7 World Empires:

1. Gold, Babylon
2. Silver, Medo/Persia
3. Bronze, Greece
4. Iron, Rome
-- Clay, "Divided Kingdom":
-- 5. Lion/Eagle, U.K./U.S.
-- 6. Bear, Russia
-- 7. Leopard (actually a TIGER), China
-- 8. "Dreadful", United Nations, - what "was and is not" because it has NO Geography, NO Populous, NO Army, etc.
​

3. Surrounded by water

As already provided, NYC is the PINNACLE CITY, and the RESIDENT CITY of the U.N. But the U.N. will be relocated to the "Contested City" of Jerusalem where the U.N. and the False Prophet will be destroyed.

​

4. Made rich with the merchant ships

And again, NYC is the commerce city of the world, which the World Trade Center "TWIN TOWERS" once evidenced.
​

5. Other nations are drunk with her wine.

Again, World Trade Center.
​

And to validate, consider where Rev. 13 depicts: the LION (and eagle) as the MOUTH because the U.K./U.S. are proficient in Finance, Trade, Science, & Technology; the LEOPARD (actually a TIGER) as the BODY because China has the largest Population; and the BEAR as the FEET because Russia has the Most Land Mass, -- with 3M ea for the U.S., Canada, and China, but 8M for Russia.


But to also point out, -- "Canada" was originally called "CND" until asked to spell it, and replied with "C" aye, "N"aye, "D" aye, which was misunderstood as CaNaDa.= Canada. TRUE STORY!

Bobby Jo

My spirit agrees with this...so there must be truth in it.

 

[Bobby Jo]

My spirit agrees with this...so there must be truth in it.

Ummmmmmm, the CaNaDa?!?

With VERY Best Regards,
Bobby Jo

 

[DPMartin]

I have been doing my best to start thinking in terms of who the scripture is talking to.
I used to believe all the bible was written for everyone but now I am understanding that not all that is written applies to everyone.
However I will always believe that scripture interprets scripture and therefore all the Bible is to be considered in studying in order to gain a true understanding of it.

that's a nice cover for your position but if you ignore what God is doing in the world and how historical events that have come to pass match what was written to sustain your view of things written isn't wise at all is it heat2soul?

the Jews refuse to accept Jesus as the Beloved Son of God because He didn't fit their view of what was written. and a whole ton of stuff that was written was being fulfilled before their eyes.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... the Jews refuse to accept Jesus ...

... because it isn't time yet for them to ACCEPT JESUS. But when it is time, THEY WILL.

Things happen on GOD's Schedule, -- not yours!
Bobby Jo

 

[Heart2Soul]

that's a nice cover for your position but if you ignore what God is doing in the world and how historical events that have come to pass match what was written to sustain your view of things written isn't wise at all is it heat2soul?

the Jews refuse to accept Jesus as the Beloved Son of God because He didn't fit their view of what was written. and a whole ton of stuff that was written was being fulfilled before their eyes.

I will not debate with you...I am sincere in my search and you are a hindrance to that when you start directing the topic in a totally different direction.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Ummmmmmm, the CaNaDa?!?

With VERY Best Regards,
Bobby Jo

Above that...

 

[Davy]

So I have been researching the city that sits on 7 mountains....most refer to Rome as that city.
But what I also found is an article that described horrible acts of punishment to those who were considered heretics...and this may or may not be true but it states that these methods of torture are still used today....I am kind of iffy about that....The Seven Mountains And Seven Heads | AgAir Update

But this article is very eye popping...makes you go hmmmm.and it is up to date with today's events and even includes Trump.
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news...n/news-story/be825c6262f5e764a3c2cbd385442702

I have always believed the antichrist comes from a religious cult. How blind will the people be as it is soon coming upon us.

Well, you certainly won't get to the Truth in God's Word regarding Rev.17 by listening to Biblically illiterate articles like "The Seven Mountains And Seven Heads"...

1. The very last verse of Rev.17 tells us the symbolic "woman", the "great whore", is a "great city". That automatically cancels any idea that the woman is a system, whether political or religious.

2. Nor does God's Word teach that the Antichrist dies, and then comes back to life. That idea from folks that can't even read, because Rev.13 is clear that the "deadly wound" is upon the 1st beast which comes up out of "sea", and that the wound is upon one of its "seven heads" (which are "seven mountains"). The "seven mountains" isn't a new symbol either, but an explanation of the "seven heads" symbol.

3. The Rev.17:8 beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit and goes into perdition is about the "another beast", the 2nd beast of Rev.13:11. This is very easy to note from Scripture.


But I guess some folks are easy to mislead away from God's written Word, listening to junk outside God's Holy Writ.

 

[Enoch111]

Is it? I am not so sure. It is even contended that New York City is mystery Babylon.

Bringing New York city into the picture is just nonsense.

"It was Rome that crucified Christ; that destroyed Jerusalem and scattered the Jews; that persecuted the early Christians in pagan times, and Protestant Christians in papal times; and probably shall be again restored to its pristine grandeur, such as it had under the Cæsars, just before the burning of the harlot and of itself with her."

From Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown's Commentary.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Well, you certainly won't get to the Truth in God's Word regarding Rev.17 by listening to Biblically illiterate articles like "The Seven Mountains And Seven Heads"...

1. The very last verse of Rev.17 tells us the symbolic "woman", the "great whore", is a "great city". That automatically cancels any idea that the woman is a system, whether political or religious.

2. Nor does God's Word teach that the Antichrist dies, and then comes back to life. That idea from folks that can't even read, because Rev.13 is clear that the "deadly wound" is upon the 1st beast which comes up out of "sea", and that the wound is upon one of its "seven heads" (which are "seven mountains"). The "seven mountains" isn't a new symbol either, but an explanation of the "seven heads" symbol.

3. The Rev.17:8 beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit and goes into perdition is about the "another beast", the 2nd beast of Rev.13:11. This is very easy to note from Scripture.


But I guess some folks are easy to mislead away from God's written Word, listening to junk outside God's Holy Writ.

I didn't claim to believe what those articles said. I presented them for discussion.

 

[Davy]

I didn't claim to believe what those articles said. I presented them for discussion.

I understand. My last statement wasn't directed at you really. It's for those who actually believe a lot of that junk in that article.

 

[Heart2Soul]

But I guess some folks are easy to mislead away from God's written Word, listening to junk outside God's Holy Writ.

Please....don't assume or presume anyone is being mislead....as I already presented in an earlier post...I brought this to the forum to gain a deeper understanding of Rev 17....go back and read a few posts and catch up with the rest of us.

 

[Davy]

Bringing New York city into the picture is just nonsense.

"It was Rome that crucified Christ; that destroyed Jerusalem and scattered the Jews; that persecuted the early Christians in pagan times, and Protestant Christians in papal times; and probably shall be again restored to its pristine grandeur, such as it had under the Cæsars, just before the burning of the harlot and of itself with her."

From Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown's Commentary.

No, it was the unbelieving JEWS that had Jesus crucified. Pilate was ready to release Jesus, as he found no fault in Him.

Even Apostle Paul barely escaped death that the unbelieving Jews desired, by Paul petitioning to Roman authority. Then Paul was protected from those Jews, and was 2 years in Rome while assigned to his house, and allowed to preach The Gospel. So let's be realistic per actual history and not Jewish bias against Rome. Not all leaders in pagan Rome were beasts.

 

[Davy]

Please....don't assume or presume anyone is being mislead....as I already presented in an earlier post...I brought this to the forum to gain a deeper understanding of Rev 17....go back and read a few posts and catch up with the rest of us.

Sorry, I don't see much information worthy on that thread in comparison to what is actually written in Rev.17.

 

[Bobby Jo]

...
"It was Rome that crucified Christ
From Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown's Commentary.

NEWS FLASH:

ROME IS DEAD and has been for some 1,400 years; another (ITALY) occupies that ancient geography; and no one but the Italians pay taxes to Italy.​

And if people don't believe History, then maybe they should believe Scripture!

Bobby Jo

 

[Enoch111]

ROME IS DEAD and has been for some 1,400 years

Rome is alive and well in the Vatican. Or is that news to you? The bishop of Rome is Pontifex Maximus, and is that news to you?