Revelation 17

[Marymog]

So I have been researching the city that sits on 7 mountains....most refer to Rome as that city.
But what I also found is an article that described horrible acts of punishment to those who were considered heretics...and this may or may not be true but it states that these methods of torture are still used today....I am kind of iffy about that....The Seven Mountains And Seven Heads | AgAir Update

But this article is very eye popping...makes you go hmmmm.and it is up to date with today's events and even includes Trump.
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news...n/news-story/be825c6262f5e764a3c2cbd385442702

I have always believed the antichrist comes from a religious cult. How blind will the people be as it is soon coming upon us.

Hi H2Soul,

Scripture has several things to say about the anti-Christ. Here is a sampling:

1 John 2:22, 1 John 4:3, 1 John 2:18, 2 John 1:7

Do you believe there are any religious cults that are active today that fit those definitions from Scripture? If so, could you name them?

Bible study Mary

 

[Marymog]

NOT BASHING.. JUST THE FACTS:

The Catholic Church is the spiritual home to 1.1 billion people around the world. It's also a big business that handles billions of dollars.
Here's how it makes money and how it spends it.

1. The Vatican Bank has $8 billion in assets


The Vatican Bank, which has about $8 billion in assets, has often been at the center of scandal and corruption since it was founded in 1942. Pope Benedict began the process of cleaning the bank up, and Francis has continued that work.

Vatican Bank accounts are only supposed to be held by residents of Vatican City and church personnel. But according to Gerald Posner, a Vatican bank scholar and the author of "God's Bankers," these accounts were often awarded to powerful Italian officials looking to stash money without paying taxes.

The bank closed over 4,000 accounts to weed out corruption and currently has a total of 33,400 accounts.

The bank, formally known as the Institute of Works of Religion, has made progress, but still has a long way to go in becoming more transparent.


2. The Vatican had over €1.1 billion off its balance sheet


The Vatican is a separate entity from the Vatican bank, and underwent its own clean up last year.

When it released its 2014 financial statements in July, the Vatican said it had more than €1.1 billion ($1.2 billion) in assets that weren't previously on the balance sheet.

The Vatican has two main entities. The Holy See, which governs the Catholic Church and the Vatican City State, which governs Vatican City.

The Holy See reported a deficit of €25.6 million ($27.9 million) in 2014, even though it received over €50 million from the Vatican Bank. Its biggest expense last year was paying its 2,880 employees a total of €126.6 million.

The Vatican City State is responsible for running the Vatican Museums and in 2014 had a surplus of €63.5 million -- nearly double what it was the year before.


3. The Sistine Chapel is for rent - kind of


In October 2014, the Sistine Chapel was rented out for the first time to the automaker Porsche.

Forty Porsche fans paid $5,900 to attend a gala under Michelangelo's famed painted ceiling as part of Pope Francis' Art for Charity project.

Whereas the average visitor is permitted only a short stay in the chapel, for fear of damage to the frescoes, the Porsche guests were treated to a private choral concert and a dinner in the exhibit.

Although money did change hands, the Vatican still contends it isn't renting out the chapel.

"The Sistine Chapel can never be rented because it is not a commercial place," Vatican spokesman Monsignor Paolo Nicolini said.

Instead, he described it as being "visible" for private groups.

But don't try booking the chapel for your birthday or wedding anytime soon -- events are limited to art-related functions.

View of the Sistine Chapel's ceiling.

4. It costs how much to become a saint?!


It's not cheap to get a priest canonized. To wit: The Our Lady of Victory National Shrine & Basilica in Lackawanna, New York, has raised over $250,000 in an effort to canonize its former priest, Father Nelson Baker.

The funds cover the publication of materials about Baker, prayer cards, communication between the church and the Vatican, travel costs for visits to and from Rome and the fees of a canon lawyer.

The cost of canonization can vary greatly depending on the length of the process and the specific evidence needed to prove that a candidate is qualified for sainthood.

The church first appealed to Rome to have Baker canonized in 1987. The case was approved in 2011, but Our Lady of Victory still has to prove that Baker performed miracles.


5. Tourism in Vatican City has tripled under Pope Francis

Tourism under Pope Francis has nearly tripled since he replaced Pope Benedict in March of 2013.

Over 12 million visitors have flocked to the Vatican for events featuring Pope Francis. And those figures don't even include the attendance for Pope Francis events that were held outside of the Vatican -- that tacks on another nearly 13 million visitors.

Pope Benedict received some 20.5 million visitors during his tenure from 2005-2013.


CNNMoney (New York)First published September 24, 2015: 7:45 AM ET

Jesse Duplantis and Kenneth Copeland seem to be doing quit well with their private jets, million dollar churches and million dollar homes even though between the two of them they don't have that many followers.

What do you make of that?

Curious Mary

 

[quietthinker]

So I have been researching the city that sits on 7 mountains....most refer to Rome as that city.
But what I also found is an article that described horrible acts of punishment to those who were considered heretics...and this may or may not be true but it states that these methods of torture are still used today....I am kind of iffy about that....The Seven Mountains And Seven Heads | AgAir Update

But this article is very eye popping...makes you go hmmmm.and it is up to date with today's events and even includes Trump.
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news...n/news-story/be825c6262f5e764a3c2cbd385442702

I have always believed the antichrist comes from a religious cult. How blind will the people be as it is soon coming upon us.

Some thoughts from a Babylonian!

We search for answers within the confines of our paradigm's. We attempt to shoehorn possible solutions to our questions into how we currently see. We wonder why so often things are not clear.

Do we think that Jesus was unclear in many of the statements he made?.....is it because he actually was unclear or is it that we try to understand through our paradigm? Does God deliberately make things foggy?

I would say, until we can admit the possibility of our paradigm being faulty, the shoehorning and the lack of clarity will follow us to the grave......and who of us has the ears to hear?

 

[Ziggy]

Jesse Duplantis and Kenneth Copeland seem to be doing quit well with their private jets, million dollar churches and million dollar homes even though between the two of them they don't have that many followers.

What do you make of that?

Curious Mary

I think they're all crooks.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Hi H2Soul,

Is it possible that the City that sits on 7 mountains was pagan Rome?

Mary

Well I think Rome has a lot to do with this Chapter in Revelation...it was Rome who conquered and destroyed Jerusalem...it was the Roman Empire who persecuted Christian's, it was Jewish Priest under Roman government laws that forced Pilot to bring false charges against Jesus and who ordered Him to be crucified....
Then Rome fell....now it's risen up in power again and it is popular in the religious society because it is the foundation of the beginning of the RCC.
That's how I perceive it for now.....any thoughts?

 

[Marymog]

Well I think Rome has a lot to do with this Chapter in Revelation...it was Rome who conquered and destroyed Jerusalem...it was the Roman Empire who persecuted Christian's, it was Jewish Priest under Roman government laws that forced Pilot to bring false charges against Jesus and who ordered Him to be crucified....
Then Rome fell....now it's risen up in power again and it is popular in the religious society because it is the foundation of the beginning of the RCC.
That's how I perceive it for now.....any thoughts?

Thank you. My thoughts are that Revelation has to do with pagan Rome not Christian Rome.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Thank you. My thoughts are that Revelation has to do with pagan Rome not Christian Rome.

Of course but the antichrist is going to fit in with the religious people because his purpose is to deceive us.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I don't think so as far as religious leader of some sort. religion in what some call mainstream is an evil. when Moa was hot to trot in his day he wiped out all religion. no recognition of a god or gods of any sort. much like what has been taught in western schools for the last 50 or more years. evolution theory is taught and has no recognition of a god, and any religious activity on the grounds is frowned upon even though its public property. the churches are near empty except for elderly in most cases. media makes religion and the religious look stupid or fanatical at every opportunity. because Christianity frowns on their way of life.
the world hates the Lord God, and seek to eliminate any influence when posable.

so the anti-Christ doesn't have to be a religious leader. Nero was a pretty intense anti-Christ. he used to burn Christians for lamp posts, while entertaining guests. much of revelations meats what has already happen in history. the Jews suffered the worst tribulation in their history from the night of broken glass in 1938 until 1945 when the camps were captured by the allies. just so happens to be 7 years.

one has to take into consideration that the bible is written by Jews to Jews unless specified otherwise.

I have been doing my best to start thinking in terms of who the scripture is talking to.
I used to believe all the bible was written for everyone but now I am understanding that not all that is written applies to everyone.
However I will always believe that scripture interprets scripture and therefore all the Bible is to be considered in studying in order to gain a true understanding of it.

 

[quietthinker]

Thank you. My thoughts are that Revelation has to do with pagan Rome not Christian Rome.

of course!....that's a given in your view otherwise you wouldn't be sporting the moniker you do.

 

[BarneyFife]

Just spitballing here:

SDABC Revelation

To skip to chapter 17, just search for "woman arrayed"

For verse 9, search "mind which hath wisdom. c"

 

[Bobby Jo]

Ummmmmmmmm, Rome? ROME?? Really?!?!?

No. That's a myth passed down due to lazy people. They understand neither Scripture or History, but make BLIND ASSERTIONS based upon nothing more than the "pulpit" in front of them, -- whether commentator or preacher.

So here's the HISTORY:

“[The] five of whom are fallen [presumes John’s work to be written in] Vespasian’s reign. Titus is to come, but only to last for a short time. Perhaps the writer knew of the hopeless condition of Titus’ health. He is therefore either using a literary convention, and assuming an earlier date than is the fact to give his words the force of a prophecy concerning Titus, or, more likely, he is using here material written in Vespasian’s reign which partly suits his purpose and partly not; for there are very good reasons for thinking that this book was written, not in Vespasian’s reign, but in Domitian’s.”[1]


[1] Eiselen, Frederick, Edwin Lewis, & David Downey, The Abingdon Bible Commentary, Abingdon Press, NY, 1929, p. 1392​

But personally, I think that I rather stick with the LIES that I know, OVER the TRUTH I'm ignorant of. -- Yeah, NOT.
Bobby Jo

 

[BarneyFife]

Ummmmmmmmm, Rome? ROME?? Really?!?!?

No. That's a myth passed down due to lazy people. They understand neither Scripture or History, but make BLIND ASSERTIONS based upon nothing more than the "pulpit" in front of them, -- whether commentator or preacher.

So here's the HISTORY:

“[The] five of whom are fallen [presumes John’s work to be written in] Vespasian’s reign. Titus is to come, but only to last for a short time. Perhaps the writer knew of the hopeless condition of Titus’ health. He is therefore either using a literary convention, and assuming an earlier date than is the fact to give his words the force of a prophecy concerning Titus, or, more likely, he is using here material written in Vespasian’s reign which partly suits his purpose and partly not; for there are very good reasons for thinking that this book was written, not in Vespasian’s reign, but in Domitian’s.”[1]


[1] Eiselen, Frederick, Edwin Lewis, & David Downey, The Abingdon Bible Commentary, Abingdon Press, NY, 1929, p. 1392​

But personally, I think that I rather stick with the LIES that I know, OVER the TRUTH I'm ignorant of. -- Yeah, NOT.
Bobby Jo

So commentators and commentary and laziness are ok as long as...?

 

[Bobby Jo]

So commentators and commentary are ok as long as...?

... they're Scriptural AND Historical???

Or maybe: we can assign ANYTHING that we can imagine, and IT WILL COME TRUE!

Yeah, not.
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

... I am more interested in studying the city on 7 mountains...that was my main focus in the article.

Cincinnati? -- Why are you studying Cincinnati?!?

Where are the Seven Hills in Cincinnati?
November 19, 2010
...
according to the University of Cincinnati Library the Seven Hills of Cincinnati are:

• Mt. Adams ; Mt. Airy; Mt. Echo; Mt. Healthy; Mt. Lookout; Mt. Storm and Mt. Washington

I kept on digging and discovered a UC Medical School publication listing several additional “Hills” -12 in all:

• Mt. Adams; Mt. Auburn; Walnut Hills; Fairview Heights; Clifton Heights; Vine Street Hill; Price Hill; Fairmount; Mt. Lookout; Mt. Hope; Mt. Echo and Mt. Storm.

OOPS, I guess Cincinnati is off the list, but HOW ABOUT:

• Albany, New York[5]
• Athens, Texas[6]
• Asunción, Paraguay[7]
• Chicontepec, Mexico, whose name is Nahuatl for "on seven hills"[8][circular reference][9]
• Cincinnati, Ohio (now encompasses more than seven)[10][11]
• Ellicott City, Maryland[12]
• Guaranda, Ecuador[13][14]
• Kernersville, North Carolina
• Lynchburg, Virginia: College Hill, Garland Hill, Daniel's Hill, Federal Hill, Diamond Hill, White Rock Hill, and Franklin Hill were the original "Seven Hills" of the City of Lynchburg.[15]
• Nevada City, California, built upon Aristocracy Hill, American Hill, Piety Hill, Prospect Hill, Wet Hill, Cement Hill, and Lost Hill. There is also a middle school and business district called Seven Hills.
• Newton, Massachusetts
• Nixa, Missouri
• Port Washington, Wisconsin, whose seven hills comprise two High School Hills, North Bluff Hill, South Hill, St. Mary’s Hill, Billy Goat Hill and Sweet Cake Hill.
• Pottsville, Pennsylvania, built on Lawton's Hill, Greenwood Hill, Bunker Hill (Sharp Mountain), Guinea Hill, Forest Hills, Cottage Hill and Mount Hope.
• Providence, Rhode Island, built on Christian Hill, College Hill, Constitution Hill, Federal Hill, Smith Hill, Tockwotten Hill, and Weybosset Hill.[16]
• Richmond, Virginia, built on numerous hills and escarpments to include Union Hill, Church Hill, Council Chamber Hill, Shockoe Hill, Gambles Hill, Navy Hill and Oregon Hill.[17]
• Rome, Georgia
• Rome, Maryland
• Saint Paul, Minnesota: The exact list of seven hills varies, but every list includes Cathedral Hill, Capitol Hill, Dayton's Bluff, Crocus Hill (sometimes also called St. Clair), and Williams Hill—which is no longer a hill.[18]
• Valera, Trujillo, Venezuela[19]
• San Francisco, California (see List of hills in San Francisco)
• Seattle, Washington (see Seven hills of Seattle)
• Seven Hills, Ohio
• Somerville, Massachusetts, built on Clarendon Hill, College Hill, Spring Hill, Winter Hill, Central Hill, Plowed Hill, Cobble Hill.[20]
• Staten Island, New York – Fort Hill, Ward Hill, Fox Hill, Grymes Hill, Emerson Hill, Todt Hill, and Richmond Hill.
• Tallahassee. Florida – Goodwood Plantation, Old Fort Park, Mission San Luis, Old Capitol, The Grove, FAMU (Lee Hall), FSU (Westcott Hall)[21]
• Victoria, Argentina[22]
• Washington, D.C., built on Capitol Hill, Meridian Hill, Floral Hills, Forest Hills, Hillbrook, Hillcrest, and Knox Hill.
• Worcester, Massachusetts, built on Pakachoag (Mount St. James), Sagatabscot (Union Hill), Hancock Hill, Chandler Hill (Belmosy Hill), Green Hill, Bancroft Hill, and Newton Hill[23]
• Yonkers, New York[24][25]

... and here's a couple MORE;

• Constantinople, Lisbon, Providence and the Massachusetts cities of Worcester, Somerville,[3] and Newton are also said[by whom?] to have been built on seven hills, following the example of Rome: "The general features of Newton are not without interest. Seven principal elevations mark its surface, like the seven hills of ancient Rome, with the difference that the seven hills of Newton are much more distinct than the seven hills of Rome: Nonantum Hill, Waban Hill, Chestnut Hill, Bald Pate, Oak Hill, Institution Hill and Mount Ida."[4]

But to my way of thinking, even the flat expanse of Panhandle Texas has seven "mountains" IN AMARILLO, TX, including:

• Hope over I-40
• I-40 over Helium
• I-40 over Sauncy
• I-40 over Coulter
• Bell over I-40
• Olsen over I-40
• I-40 over Western
• I-40 over Julian
• I-40 over Georgia
• I-40 over Crocket
• Washington over I-40
• I-40 over the I27/Hwy 87 Interchange and the BNSF Railway
• I-40 over Ross/Osage
• I-40 over Quarter Horse
• Grand over I-40
• I-40 over Eastern
• I-40 over Whitaker
• I-40 over Lakeside
• Jewet Attebury
• I-40 over Pullman
• I-40 over Hwy 287

Well, 6 out of 7 SHOULD STILL COUNT ...

​

And I am reminded of Mt. Scott near Lawton, OK, which rises a HUGH 414ft above the rest of the plains, -- which practically dwarfs our Rio Grande Valley of 6,000 ft, versus our 9,000 ft Jemez Valles Grande pass, having 14,000ft PEAKS which remain after the "plug dome" sent the bulk of the original elevation skyward and as far as Kansas. So maybe I should simply identify seven remaining crater rim "peaks"?

With Very, VERY Best Regards,
Bobby Jo


PS: It ain't "Rome" ...​

 

[Marymog]

of course!....that's a given in your view otherwise you wouldn't be sporting the moniker you do.

Hi trollman,

What does your moniker say about you?

 

[Enoch111]

Thank you. My thoughts are that Revelation has to do with pagan Rome not Christian Rome.

Pagan Rome became "Christian Rome" under Augustine.

 

[Marymog]

Pagan Rome became "Christian Rome" under Augustine.

Hi Enoch,

You should get with your Protestant brothers who are Christian historians and despise The Church like you do because they would disagree with you. Just like Catholic and agnostic historians would disagree with you and your theory. Who taught you that?

Curious Mary

 

[Prayer Warrior]

So I have been researching the city that sits on 7 mountains....most refer to Rome as that city.
But what I also found is an article that described horrible acts of punishment to those who were considered heretics...and this may or may not be true but it states that these methods of torture are still used today....I am kind of iffy about that....The Seven Mountains And Seven Heads | AgAir Update

But this article is very eye popping...makes you go hmmmm.and it is up to date with today's events and even includes Trump.
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news...n/news-story/be825c6262f5e764a3c2cbd385442702

I have always believed the antichrist comes from a religious cult. How blind will the people be as it is soon coming upon us.

First, I’ll say that I’m not a dominionist. The Book of Revelation makes it clear that when Jesus returns, the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of Christ.

I scanned the article and found it to be unbalanced. It makes it sound like Christian involvement in politics is dominionist.

I particularly take issue with this statement: “RELIGION: ‘With a plethora of categorised religions around the world, it’s the Church’s responsibility to reach the lost with the love and Gospel of Jesus Christ, and expand the Kingdom in ministerial efforts, both nationally and internationally.’”

How is reaching the lost with the love of Christ a bad thing—ever? This is what’s called the Great Commission and is what Jesus told His followers to do. And this does expand Christ’s kingdom in the sense that His kingdom is within believers.

I’m weary with threads and posts that say or imply that Christians should not be involved in politics. We all need to be doing what God has called us to do. Perhaps we should stop beating a dead horse.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Hi Enoch,

You should get with your Protestant brothers who are Christian historians and despise The Church like you do because they would disagree with you. Just like Catholic and agnostic historians would disagree with you and your theory. Who taught you that?

Curious Mary

Dear Mary,

Please be aware that I'm not Catholic, and don't particularly agree with many Catholic practices, -- however I also don't agree with many of the Protestant practices. But I DO understand respective portions of Bible Prophecy. And it DOES bother me when ignorant people use their ignorance of the Bible to bash others unjustifiably, -- specifically using Rev. 17 which has NOTHING TO DO with the Catholic Church or "Rome" or any such affiliation. And I suppose it grieves GOD when HE sees people abusing HIS Prophetic Tools in such a fashion.

Unfortunately these individuals aren't interested in the TRUTH of Scripture and History, and so they are as SAUL before he became PAUL.


With my SINCERE apologies,
Bobby Jo

 

[Heart2Soul]

First, I’ll say that I’m not a dominionist. The Book of Revelation makes it clear that when Jesus returns, the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of Christ.

I scanned the article and found it to be unbalanced. It makes it sound like Christian involvement in politics is dominionist.

I particularly take issue with this statement: “RELIGION: ‘With a plethora of categorised religions around the world, it’s the Church’s responsibility to reach the lost with the love and Gospel of Jesus Christ, and expand the Kingdom in ministerial efforts, both nationally and internationally.’”

How is reaching the lost with the love of Christ a bad thing—ever? This is what’s called the Great Commission and is what Jesus told His followers to do. And this does expand Christ’s kingdom in the sense that His kingdom is within believers.

I’m weary with threads and posts that say or imply that Christians should not be involved in politics. We all need to be doing what God has called us to do. Perhaps we should stop beating a dead horse.

Don't assume the articles I presented are my beliefs.
I presented them because I sought feedback from the forum. I didn't care for much of it as well...however their was historical facts presented that opened my eyes to the suffering of those who went against the church.
Now let's make this a bible study and share what you know.
I claim to know little but desire to learn much about this chapter.
I do research online and in scripture.
I trust scripture a hundred percent but sometimes I don't understand it....so I turn to study what others have taught....but I don't trust what they say a hundred percent. So then I bring it to the forum to learn from those I feel I can trust.
Hope that helps.