You are not confronting me with any kind of truth but are questioning me on issues that might be used to bring persecution on people that I care about.
Contradiction Or Paradox?
- Thread starter BarneyFife
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ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
yes jbf we know you espouse the heresy of kenosis which is unbiblical and is in opposition to the Creeds.
I have given biblical substantiation for what I believe. Therefore if kenosis theory is unbiblical, what I believe is not kenosis theory. But if what I believe is kenosis theory, then kenosis theory is not unbiblical.
A simple deduction that you could make if you were only willing to read the scriptures that I reference. But because you refuse to do that, you are cursed to oppose a man of God who is preaching the truth, maybe even for the rest of your life. And this will not bode well for you on the day of judgment; although you may even enter into the kingdom by the skin of your teeth.
I'm afraid it doesn't help much. You had me up until the omnis and impeccability.
@Christophany, you and @justbyfaith need to go ten rounds of bare-knuckle boxing, I think. Unless, of course, you're actually charitable Christians. Oh, that's right. You are. 
Of course. "Impeccability" of Jesus Christ is unscriptural doctrine of Romanism (Roman Catholicism).
Please take note. I am not saying, by denying such doctrine ("Impeccability"), that Jesus Christ ever once sinned or was a sinner.
What I am saying, is two things:
[1.] Jesus had all possibility to sin (but didn't). This is different than being unable to sin, which is what "impeccability" doctrine states.
[2.] Jesus came in the likeness of sinful (fallen) flesh, yet was born of the Holy Ghost. The "flesh" and the "Spirit" are two things, not the same thing. That Jesus' had the same flesh as fallen man (you & I, and they), does not make Jesus a sinner. Sin is the "transgression" of the Law, whether by omission of commission. Jesus never sinned, not even in the likeness of sinful flesh. This is different than Rome's doctrine of the Immaculate Conception (of Mary), and thus Jesus obtains unfallen flesh through her according to Romanism. Others, like Romanism, basically end up with the same doctrine, though they bypass the seemingly logical Immaculate Conception of Mary, and simply attribute to Jesus the unfallen flesh (like JW, &c). Such doctrine, which denies the fallen (likeness of sinful) flesh of Jesus is stated to be antichrist in the Epistles of John. It is likewise stated in other places by Paul, &c.
[2.] Jesus came in the likeness of sinful (fallen) flesh, yet was born of the Holy Ghost. The "flesh" and the "Spirit" are two things, not the same thing. That Jesus' had the same flesh as fallen man (you & I, and they), does not make Jesus a sinner. Sin is the "transgression" of the Law, whether by omission of commission. Jesus never sinned, not even in the likeness of sinful flesh. This is different than Rome's doctrine of the Immaculate Conception (of Mary), and thus Jesus obtains unfallen flesh through her according to Romanism. Others, like Romanism, basically end up with the same doctrine, though they bypass the seemingly logical Immaculate Conception of Mary, and simply attribute to Jesus the unfallen flesh (like JW, &c). Such doctrine, which denies the fallen (likeness of sinful) flesh of Jesus is stated to be antichrist in the Epistles of John. It is likewise stated in other places by Paul, &c.
Seems to me like I have been standing here blocking all of his jabs.@Christophany, you and @justbyfaith need to go ten rounds of bare-knuckle boxing, I think. Unless, of course, you're actually charitable Christians. Oh, that's right. You are.
Read the text more carefully. The text does not say that Jesus didn't know (have in mind).
Joh_5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
Also, the phrase, "But of that day and hour knoweth [to make known to others, see 1 Corinthians 2:2 - For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.; which is why Jesus could say "neither the Son" [Mark 13:32], as Jesus will not make it known, but leaves it to the Father to do] no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.", as stated by Jesus, does not say, that we will never know, and Jesus would not reveal it [though He knows it], since the Father Himself, has chosen, that after the close of probation, He will speak forth the time by His own voice, as that previous quotation reveals:
Acts 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
So it wasn't a matter of knowledge, as the Father and the Son are "one", but it was a matter of authority amongst Godhead. Even in the very context of Mark, Jesus placed Himself above men and angels.
Voice of God the Father announcing the hour; Jeremiah 25:30; Joel 2:11, 3:16; Amos 1:2; Job 40:9; Psalms 18:13, 77:18, 104:7; 1 Samuel 2:10; 2 Samuel 22:14; Matthew 24:36; Mark 13:32; John 12:29; 2 Peter 1:17-18; Revelation 14:2; &c
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
"Could Jesus have sinned?
Answer: There are two sides to this interesting question. It is important to remember that this is not a question of whether Jesus sinned. Both sides agree, as the Bible clearly says, that Jesus did not sin (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22). The question is whether Jesus could have sinned. Those who hold to “impeccability” believe that Jesus could not have sinned. Those who hold to “peccability” believe that Jesus could have sinned, but did not. Which view is correct? The clear teaching of Scripture is that Jesus was impeccable—Jesus could not have sinned. If He could have sinned, He would still be able to sin today because He retains the same essence He did while living on earth. He is the God-Man and will forever remain so, having full deity and full humanity so united in one person as to be indivisible. To believe that Jesus could sin is to believe that God could sin. “For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him” (Colossians 1:19). Colossians 2:9 adds, “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”
Although Jesus is fully human, He was not born with the same sinful nature that we are born with. He certainly was tempted in the same way we are, in that temptations were put before Him by Satan, yet He remained sinless because God is incapable of sinning. It is against His very nature (Matthew 4:1; Hebrews 2:18, 4:15; James 1:13). Sin is by definition a trespass of the Law. God created the Law, and the Law is by nature what God would or would not do; therefore, sin is anything that God would not do by His very nature.
To be tempted is not, in and of itself, sinful. A person could tempt you with something you have no desire to do, such as committing murder or participating in sexual perversions. You probably have no desire whatsoever to take part in these actions, but you were still tempted because someone placed the possibility before you. There are at least two definitions for the word “tempted”:
1) To have a sinful proposition suggested to you by someone or something outside yourself or by your own sin nature.
2) To consider actually participating in a sinful act and the possible pleasures and consequences of such an act to the degree that the act is already taking place in your mind.
The first definition does not describe a sinful act/thought; the second does. When you dwell upon a sinful act and consider how you might be able to bring it to pass, you have crossed the line of sin. Jesus was tempted in the fashion of definition one except that He was never tempted by a sin nature because it did not exist within Him. Satan proposed certain sinful acts to Jesus, but He had no inner desire to participate in the sin. Therefore, He was tempted like we are but remained sinless.
Those who hold to peccability believe that, if Jesus could not have sinned, He could not have truly experienced temptation, and therefore could not truly empathize with our struggles and temptations against sin. We have to remember that one does not have to experience something in order to understand it. God knows everything about everything. While God has never had the desire to sin, and has most definitely never sinned, God knows and understands what sin is. God knows and understands what it is like to be tempted. Jesus can empathize with our temptations because He knows, not because He has “experienced” all the same things we have.
Jesus knows what it is like to be tempted, but He does not know what it is like to sin. This does not prevent Him from assisting us. We are tempted with sins that are common to man (1 Corinthians 10:13). These sins generally can be boiled down to three different types: “the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life” (1 John 2:16 NKJV). Examine the temptation and sin of Eve, as well as the temptation of Jesus, and you will find that the temptations for each came from these three categories. Jesus was tempted in every way and in every area that we are, but remained perfectly holy. Although our corrupt natures will have the inner desire to participate in some sins, we have the ability, through Christ, to overcome sin because we are no longer slaves to sin but rather slaves of God (Romans 6, especially verses 2 and 16-22).got?
hope this helps !!!
Jesus said hating someone equals physical murder, right?
Right, so he was telling the Jews they are guilty of all violations in that discussion.
Then how can He know everything? See? It's a rabbit hole. Once you get into it, it just gets dug deeper and deeper. Every word you say has to be more carefully weighed, the deeper you go. Jesus never committed sin and has no culpability for any sin. That much is certain. But if He has infinite empathy, He knows exactly what it is like to sin. How could He undertake the atonement operation if He didn't know?
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You said that, not Jesus. Read carefully. Resist the urge to hit-and-run post, if you can.
“Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.”
I missed the "physical" part. That is what you said, wasn't it? I'm pretty sure you specified "physical." Words are important.
Next hit-and-run......................
In Matthew 5:28, a parallel thought, Christ actually specifies: "in his heart." (not physically)
Mar 13:32, But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
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Simple. Ever hate anyone in your life, even for a day? Jesus said you killed them.
Unfair?
No, he was saying all breakers of a single Law of God make us guilty of breaking all Law.
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