Contradiction Or Paradox?
- Thread starter BarneyFife
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Lots of people who do at times, I believe, really have, or have had, an unction, disagree with others who also have had an unction. It boils down to the difference between Saul the King a, or have nd David the King, both anointed as King of Israel by Samuel. Too many people quench the Spirit in them too often and fill in too many gaps with their own logical [or illogical] studies. But each one is certain that he is right and the other guy disagreeing must be the one in error:
"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps" Jerem 10:23
"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Rom 8:13-14
Led by the Spirit a person will not go the wrong way, but unfortunately every church group of my experience teaches people to quench the Holy Spirit in them and the results are not good.
Hebrews 3-4 (among many others; John 14:15; Exodus 20:6; Isaiah 56:1,8; John 10:16; Isaiah 56:2-7, Acts 4:24, 14:15; Revelation 10:6, 14:6-7, &c).
Hebrews 3-4 is clear.
Hebrews 4:3, "my (God's) rest" and "the works were finished from the foundation of the world", which is a direct reference to Genesis 2:1-3. It even uses the word "finished". God rested the 7th day in Genesis 2:1-3. It is His rest, the 7th day, the sabbath (rest) of the LORD thy God, Exodus 20:8-11.
Hebrews 4:4, "he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works", which "certain place" is Genesis 2:1-3; re-cited in Exodus 20:8-11. The 7th day the sabbath (rest) of the LORD thy God.
Hebrews 4:5, "my (God's) rest)", citing Psalms 95, which is citing Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11, etc. Again, this is the 7th day the sabbath (rest) of God at Creation in Genesis 2:1-3.
Hebrews 4:6, "remaineth", from when? "from the foundation of the world" as per Hebrews 4:3 and thus it is not new, but has been around from the beginning.
Hebrews 4:9, "rest", sabbatismos, literally and truly sabbath keeping in scripture and in all known extant Greek sources, dictionaries, and so on and again "remaineth".
Hebrews 4:10, "his (God's) rest", which is the 7th day the sabbath (rest) of the LORD thy God from Genesis 2:1-3., "as God did from his (works)", which "works were finished from the foundation of the world" as per Hebrews 4:3.
Hebrews 4:11, "that rest" (ie God's rest), the 7th day the sabbath (rest) of the LORD thy God.
There are two days mentioned in Hebrews 4.
[1] the 7th day the sabbath of the LORD thy God, His rest
[2] the 'day' of mercy, the 'to day', the 'day' to repent unto God and keep His commandment, to do as God did in the 7th day [1]
[2] the 'day' of mercy, the 'to day', the 'day' to repent unto God and keep His commandment, to do as God did in the 7th day [1]
Both are present, and each of the other do not override the other.
Just as Israel (the peoples) of old had their "day" of mercy, so too we do. 1 Corinthians 10, connected with Exodus 16 shows that as they had the test on the 7th day, so too we also in that same day, in our day of mercy, as in their day of mercy. Do not be like those that did not believe, and thus did not keep the 7th day, and went out to work on it. Hebrews 3-4 show this great connection, just as 1 Corinthians 10 does.
You can find my study on the entirety of Hebrews 3-4 here:
Hebrews 3-4 [KJB], the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD JEHOVAH - "my rest" "remaineth" to My people.
I was there just recently, but they continually ban me the very moment they find me out. Probably over 50 times now at least. I'll be back there shortly, as time goes, when I have the time to set up another account and email and IP.
Marymog
Well-Known Member
- Mar 7, 2017
- 11,438
- 1,696
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
you reject His Deity since you claim He lost His Omni Attributes which is a direct contradiction of Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9. And since you cannot exegete Colossians I will help you out.
Here lets begin with the syllogisms from the text in Philippians 2.
Just as the term “form of God” in verse six does not mean “less than God” because of the phrase “equality with God" in the prior passage.
It goes to reason in the same way with the 2 phrases in the “form of a servant” and in the “likeness of man” in verse seven do not mean that Jesus was any “less than human,” but instead means He was the same or “equal with all humans.”
That is how the passage reads and how it is to be understood in its " CONTEXT ".
He self-limited His divine prerogatives via the Incarnation as per Phil 2. In other words did not use them to His advantage but was in submission to the Father for 33 years to accomplish our salvation. All the FULLNESS of DEITY dwells in bodily form. Col 2:9. Jesus was and is fully God lacking nothing in His Deity. Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
Even through Christ existed in the form of God He did not regard equality with God something that He needed to reach for or grasp. Why because it was already His and never gave that up for a millisecond.
Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
In Colossians 2:9 the Apostle Paul said, For in HIM (CHRIST) ALL of the “ fullness of deity dwells bodily.” Did Paul use the word fullness there to mean partially? NO as Jesus did not empty Himself of His Deity. Jesus Divinity is FULL, complete lacking in nothing. The ENTIRE Fullness of Deity dwells(is present) bodily in Jesus.
πλήρωμα ALL THE FULNESS OF DEITY= nothing absent, missing its the same FULNESS of the FATHER and HOLY SPIRIT- The Godhead. The Greek word means the FULL MUMBER. ie nothing missing like the 3 OMNI Attributes shared by the GODHEAD.
Try to engage the text and exegete the passage rather than use eisegesis- reading your own thoughts and ideas into the text.
He shed His blood on the cross when all the Fulness of Deity was in Him bodily as the passage plainly SAYS in Colossians 1:19-20.
What Paul makes very clear in this passage is that in addition to being God, He became man. The Incarnation was not a subtraction of His deity but an addition of humanity to His nature. This passage does not say Jesus gave up His deity but that He laid aside His rights as Deity, assuming the form of a servant in verse 7. The text says He was in the form of God or being in the very nature of God in 2:6. Just as He took upon Himself the "form of a servant" which is a servant by nature, so the "form of God" is God by nature. The word "being" from the phrase: being in the very form of God is a present active participle. This means "continued existence" as God. What Paul is actually saying here is Jesus has always been and still is in the "form of God". If you continue reading the passage Paul really drives this point home so that his readers have no doubt what he is trying to get across to the Philippians. Paul says that every knee will bow and will one day Confess Jesus is LORD. Paul takes the passage in Isaiah 45:23 which clearly refers to Yahweh a name used for God alone and says this of Jesus. The fulfillment of YHWH in Isaiah 45 is none other than Jesus who is God(Yahweh) in the flesh.
hope this helps !!!
Last edited:
I don't want a god whom I can understand fully. I'm glad I'm not as smart as some of the people I've come across on the Interweb. This thought has nagged me for many years. If I knew as much about God as the collective of people I've encountered within the last 20 years or so, I fear I'd have little, if anything, left to learn. So many people seem to be so sure about so much. Someone always has a confident, if not altogether condescending ("How could you not know this?") answer to every question. It's truly baffling.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Not if you begin with God and His nature- the divine attributes that make God, God. Whatever can be said of the Father and the Holy Spirit can be said of the Son and vice versa with Deity. In Colossians 1:19 and 2:9 we read that all the Fulness of Deity dwells in Christ bodily. So there is nothing lacking, hence He has all the fulness of Deity in Him.
hope this helps !!!
What I meant was: Isn't it a bit of a stretch to accuse someone of denying the deity of Christ just because they don't see eye-to-eye with you on the logistics of the Godhead? After all, how much can we really know about the intricacies of an entity that is triune? And how well do we define the word "deity?" We're treading on holy ground here. Shouldn't we remove our proverbial sandals? Is all of this stuff as elementary as we depict it?
The law may be the law in a sense, but not all law is the same. There is such a thing as over-simplification. Punching someone in the nose isn't the same as killing millions of people. The law is the law when one keeps all of it, as Jesus did. But when it's broken there are varying degrees of offense.
Don't you know my friend that you not supposed to understand it... just accept it because "I said so"? Lots of Protestants [supposedly any non-Catholic claiming to be a follower of Christ] strongly opposed to Catholicism generally but equally strong in their support of the Trinitarian position that differs little if any from the Catholic position on it... Yet it is all by faith. People are mixed up on this for certain. They insist their "faith" is in the right things, whereas any other Catholic or Protestant who disagrees on a point of faith is in error. Do people accept these penned words of Paul as an accurate description of what faith is?
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" Heb 11:1
What are we hoping for...?
Certainly not what our carnal flesh desires!
"...nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."
In your faith be sure you are a Trinitarian!
In your faith be sure you are opposed to the Trinity!
In your faith be sure you are against the Democratic Party!
In your faith be sure you are against the Socialists!
In your faith be sure you are against tongue talkers!
In your faith be sure you are where I am!
In your faith be sure you believing in that particular written Creed!
Next AT [Absolute Truth]...?
LOL Have I given you that impression? By the way, what is dogma? LOLI'm getting the impression you don't care much for dogma.
Last edited:
Prove it.
No, actually, it is only 1/3 of God that dwells in Jesus Christ. Or, maybe a 2nd God.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
you are not a trinitarian, God is not parts or 1/3 of anything. Now you are espousing tritheism.Prove it.
No, actually, it is only 1/3 of God that dwells in Jesus Christ. Or, maybe a 2nd God.
YIKES...........................
I was espousing what I believe to be your estimation of the Trinity.
For if Jesus is not the Father, He is either a 2nd God or else He is 1/3 of God.
In order for the fulness of the Godhead to dwell in Him in bodily form (Colossians 2:9 (kjv)), it must be the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost that dwells in the body of Jesus Christ.
Is that three Spirits? See John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4.
The Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24). The Son is a Spirit in flesh (John 4:24, Hebrews 1:8-9). The Holy Ghost is a Spirit (John 7:39, 2 Timothy 1:14).
ONE Spirit.
Last edited:
Similar threads
