SinSinSin

[Addy]

I believe the teaching is called Free Grace. It teaches that a 'believer' can be in unbelief (yes, that's a contradiction) and live willingly and unrestrained in any amount of sin they want, and for any reason they want, and they will still be saved when Jesus comes back. Why? They say Romans 5:20 is why, and, because salvation is not by works. bloodbought53 and Behold believe this teaching.

Wow... you sure have it all figured out... LOL

 

[BarneyFife]

Ditto I have yet to hear one person on this forum who believes the following:

Romans 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

the person is full of strawman arguments and ad hominems......................

Again, on either side of an argument: Do we claim everything we are deceived into believing? It is the nature especially of self-deception to deny, deny, deny. Am I right about this?

 

[BarneyFife]

You should believe in what I said to you; because it is biblical.

But if you are saying that no one believes that they are saved by their not sinning....I think that this is a common misconception that the world has about religion...so yes, there are many who believe in that.





Is there a point to your pointing that out?

Perhaps not. Maybe I misunderstood you (I sometimes do that, especially when I'm following more than one thread). Sorry.

 

[Taken]

As a matter of fact, God desires for us to keep the law rather than requiring us to keep it.

What Law?
Mosaic Law?
Roman Law?
Jewish Law?

Because we are forgiven, there is no more condemnation if we fail to keep the law.

However, those who are forgiven keep the law better than those who feel that they would be condemned over not keeping it.

We have the grace of the Lord in our lives, and because of this grace, we bear the fruit of the Spirit; against which there is no law (Galatians 5:22-23).

Rather Confusing;
The Law...God desires men to keep
The Law...No requirement for man to keep
The Law...Better kept by the Forgiven
The Law...Grace in ones Life, means Spirit in one, means NO Law.

Isn't Grace in one Life, Spirit in one, Applicable TO the same one "WHO IS Forgiven"? And "they" the forgiven, are Better at KEEPING "The Law"?

And "mysteriously"..."THE Law" itself is NOT defined....Quoted...Revealed.

 

[BarneyFife]

But if you are saying that no one believes that they are saved by their not sinning....I think that this is a common misconception that the world has about religion...so yes, there are many who believe in that.

Perhaps I should have said "no Christian" instead of "no one." Christians, I believe, generally except the concept of substitutionary atonement.

 

[ChristisGod]

Again, on either side of an argument: Do we claim everything we are deceived into believing? It is the nature especially of self-deception to deny, deny, deny. Am I right about this?

give me an example/illustration so I can see if I'm following you correctly, thanks !

 

[BarneyFife]

What Law?
Mosaic Law?
Roman Law?
Jewish Law?

Moral law inscribed on tablets of stone

 

[Michiah-Imla]

With you being the arbiter of what Scripture has settled, of course. Congratulations on your power.

What kind of response is this?

Why do people like you like to put the scriptures in this clouded place where no one can discern what the scriptures are saying?

The scriptures say:

LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.

LOVE YOUR ENEMIES.

WALK IN THE SPIRIT.

ONE STRIKES YOUR CHEEK, TURN THE OTHER TO THEM.

LET YOURSELF BE DEFRAUDED.

And so on. Nothing complicated.

IT IS SETTLED >>> LOVE YOU ENERGY.

IT IS SETTLED >>> YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN.

IT IS SETTLED >>> IF YOU LOVE JESUS YOU WILL KEEP HIS SAYINGS. (All his sayings, not the one’s you chose to accept plainly arbitrarily).

I my estimation the only ones who would have an issue are those who cannot stand to be humbled by man wrongfully for the Lord’s sake or accept any kind of threat to their salvation from the Bible. Just because someone has perverted the scriptures out of their hearts doesn’t mean I have to follow them. I FOLLOW THE LORD THROUGH HIS WORD!

The scriptures are clear to those who WANT to obey them and love them.

Those, like you, would rather have us be full of debate and discussion about what the scriptures say (especially with passages that would put the fear of God in you; now we cannot have that can we?).

We are called to be unified in biblical doctrine. The only way this happens is when EVERYONE SUBMITS themselves to the scriptures. But the minute one proclaims the word of God plainly, people like you emerge who cause divisions and offenses contrary to the scriptures and discourage us by showing contempt at our bold proclamation of what God says.

Too many Christians are full of empty theological words, puffed up with worthless knowledge. They sound so intelligent with their Bible tech talk (hermeneutics, exegesis, blah blah blah). In reality they just show how foolish they have become by being captivated by that cunning man lying in wait to deceive.

2 Corinthians 11:19 For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise.

 

[BarneyFife]

give me an example/illustration so I can see if I'm following you correctly, thanks !

Strictly within Christianity:

1. Believing salvation can be earned by meritorious works of law
2. Believing one can sin all they like and yet retain favor with God

Folks just don't go around admitting these things, do they?

 

[justbyfaith]

The Law...Grace in ones Life, means Spirit in one, means NO Law.

not NO law...for the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death (Romans 8:2)....even the law of faith (Romans 3:27)

Isn't Grace in one Life, Spirit in one, Applicable TO the same one "WHO IS Forgiven"? And "they" the forgiven, are Better at KEEPING "The Law"?

The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

 

[BarneyFife]

What kind of response is this?

Why do people like you like to put the scriptures in this clouded place where no one can discern what the scriptures are saying?

The scriptures say:

LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.

LOVE YOUR ENEMIES.

WALK IN THE SPIRIT.

ONE STRIKES YOUR CHEEK, TURN THE OTHER TO THEM.

LET YOURSELF BE DEFRAUDED.

And so on. Nothing complicated.

IT IS SETTLED >>> LOVE YOU ENERGY.

IT IS SETTLED >>> YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN.

IT IS SETTLED >>> IF YOU LOVE JESUS YOU WILL KEEP HIS SAYINGS. (All his sayings, not the one’s you chose to accept plainly arbitrarily).

I my estimation the only ones who would have an issue are those who cannot stand to be humbled by man wrongfully for the Lord’s sake or accept any kind of threat to their salvation from the Bible. Just because someone has perverted the scriptures out of their hearts doesn’t mean I have to follow them. I FOLLOW THE LORD THROUGH HIS WORD!

The scriptures are clear to those who WANT to obey them and love them.

Those, like you, would rather have us be full of debate and discussion about what the scriptures say (especially with passages that would put the fear of God in you; now we cannot have that can we?).

We are called to be unified in biblical doctrine. The only way this happens is when EVERYONE SUBMITS themselves to the scriptures. But the minute one proclaims the word of God plainly, people like you emerge who cause divisions and offenses contrary to the scriptures and discourage us by showing contempt at our bold proclamation of what God says.

Too many Christians are full of empty theological words, puffed up with worthless knowledge. They sound so intelligent with their Bible tech talk (hermeneutics, exegesis, blah blah blah). In reality they just show how foolish they have become by being captivated by that cunning man lying in wait to deceive.

2 Corinthians 11:19 For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise.

The Great And Powerful Oz Has Spoken!!!
Sorry, I'm not in the mood for a broomstick hunt.
Again, your word is The Word.
Sorry you can't see that.
This is a discussion and debate website.
If you can't stand the heat...

 

[ChristisGod]

Strictly within Christianity:

1. Believing salvation can be earned by meritorious works of law
2. Believing one can sin all they like and yet retain favor with God

Folks just don't go around admitting these things, do they?

I think the pharisees believed number 1 above. And Paul said shall we continue to sin that grace might abound for a reason which I believe some thought it was possible.

Romans 5:20
The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,

Paul in Romans 5-6 is overcoming objections with his audience.

 

[TheslightestID]

LOL...back at ya.

You were stating a Fact?
Then you have a source for your Fact ... Right?



I'm actually saying...you have provided NO facts that anyone has said what you claim.

People out there...Pretty Vague.
Feelings of People out there...Very Vague.
Sin all "they"...(some invisible unknown people).. like....and get to Heaven.

LOL...what a load of irrelevant nonsense!



Funny how you are the only one talking for "these" people only you know.

There are hundreds of people on this forum ... why not QUOTE ONE person on this forum...making the "Claim they have a license to Sin?"

Of course no one us going to make the claim in those words, it sounds too harsh, you know better. Now tell me what have you proven because no one will come right out and say it?

I see, you are calling me liar, something I might understand if I was one, and you knew me well enough. I would now have to ask, what grounds have you for thinking I would tell a lie like that, do you know me to be a liar? And what would my reason be for doing so?

And on top of that, what is the point of even debating if we choose to just assume the other is lying with any claims?

 

[justbyfaith]

I think the pharisees believed number 1 above. And Paul said shall we continue to sin that grace might abound for a reason which I believe some thought it was possible.

Romans 5:20
The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,

Paul in Romans 5-6 is overcoming objections with his audience.

It should be clear that Romans 5:20 was never intended to teach grace as a license for immorality.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The Great And Powerful Oz Has Spoken!!!

You can only rebuke with vain words inspired by this world.

Not by the word of God.

This “great OZ” you speak of is GOD! It would behoove you well to obey him. I’m just doing what the scripture tells me to do:

1 Peter 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God

You speak with the words of this world.

Enough said.

 

[ChristisGod]

It should be clear that Romans 5:20 was never intended to teach grace as a license for immorality.

I never said it was, Paul is countering that argument. He does this in several places in his letters.

Galatians 5:13
You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.

So does Peter below

1 Peter 2:16
Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God.

and Jude

Jude 1:4
For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Addy]

It should be clear that Romans 5:20 was never intended to teach grace as a license for immorality.

However... apparently it's not clear to some. I will never understand how this argument is even possible for Christians... mind you... not much surprises me anymore...as from what I have seen ... Christians don't seem able to agree on much of anything.

 

[BarneyFife]

I think the pharisees believed number 1 above. And Paul said shall we continue to sin that grace might abound for a reason which I believe some thought it was possible.

Romans 5:20
The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,

Paul in Romans 5-6 is overcoming objections with his audience.

I think the Pharisees were so jaded that by the time of Christ's first advent they had well nigh lost their perception of substitutionary atonement altogether. Technically, they weren't strictly within Christianity, either. And I do believe that the tendency to self-justify has always been a problem with human nature, although I don't believe it leads to the kind of liberal licentiousness within the church that pervades worldlings.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Christians don't seem able to agree on much of anything.

The enemy has had over 2000 years to pervert the gospel with so many varieties. And the world is full of people who have accepted one of those varieties or a combination of them. So many theological books filled with garbage.

What the Lord said is so true...

Few will be saved.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[ChristisGod]

However... apparently it's not clear to some. I will never understand how this argument is even possible for Christians... mind you... not much surprises me anymore...as from what I have seen ... Christians don't seem able to agree on much of anything.

its not read my previous post #276