Repenting From Sins Will Not Save You....Unless It Is A Trick !

[quietthinker]

A lot of confused, poorly taught people believe sincerely that unless they “ Stop Sinning” , they can’t be Saved. This is what they take the word “ Repentance” to mean ......one has to Repent Of all of their Sins in order to be declared “ Fit For Heaven”

The True Repentance That Saves is the “ TURNING to God , with Faith in Jesus Christ.” Acts 20:22...... “ I told Jews and Gentiles to TURN ( Repent) to God and have Faith in our Lord Jesus) It is literally a “ change of mind” ( from the Greek Metanoia) .....you Change you Mind From thinking that you are “ good enough” to go to Heaven and thinking you can make it on your own somehow , to finally discovering that you CANT be good enough and you need HELP! BIG TIME ! You need a Savior! Then and ONLY then will you have the required Contrite Heart that God is looking for .....the Contrite Heart that cries out..... “ Lord have Mercy on me , a Sinner.....” Onecwill never cry out for the Savior until you see the NEED for that Savior.....

So now let me make my point: If one thinks that Repentance means “ Conquering or Stopping Sin”to Merit Heaven.....let’s go through that process .... I am qualified to teach it .....I tried it .....( spoiler alert— it did not work )

OK ....Lets pretend that I just got told by my Dr that I got one month to live ....it’s time to get serious with God ....I gotta quit all of my Sinning .....I have now officially declared “ I Repent! I will sin no more! Starting NOW! So......I start reading the Bible to find out all of the rules that I must keep and I give it my best shot ......I can sin no more between now and a month from now when I kick the bucket.I check out those Ten Commandments and for weeks I go without Murdering or Committing Adultery .....I grit my teeth , summon up all of my will-Power andxfind myself doing a pretty good job!

But then I made a big accidental mistake.....I got to The New Testament and stumbled across the Sermon on the Mount. Uh-oh. There I discovered refraining from murder and refraining from Adultery was not going to “ cut the mustard” . To continue my life of Repentance which meant to me in my mind I still had to “ not sin anymore” —— it finally hit me ! I could refrain from Adultery sure enough , but Jesus said that to just have a lustful thought was equal to committing Adultery. Well , a man’s gotta do what he has to do—— no more Lustful Thoughts for me !

Well, that worked for about 15 minutes.....in fact the more that I tried NOT to harbor bad thoughts, the more bad thoughts I entertained ......it finally hit me ......despite my good intentions , my attempts to “ quit Sinning” was a Sham. I could not do it ! The harder I “tried” to quit the harder it “ became” to quit . I was reminded of Paul’s struggle in Romans 7......I sincerely “ wanted” to be “ good” , but it just wasn’t in me..... “ Sin” always found a way to overcome the Best of my intentions....I had to “ come to an end of myself” ..... I could not stop Sinning .....what I “ could” do was to swallow my Pride, admit I was a hopeless, helpless Sinner who HAD to have a Savior or I was headed for Hell like a speeding Bullet! Now I understood how that Sinful Publican ( Tax Collector) felt....I had at last been humbled — All that was left for me to do was TURN TO GOD ( the REAL Repentance that God means for Salvation) and cry out , “ Lord Jesus, have Mercy on me, a Sinner.” Just like the Publican , I was Saved at that moment.....I went home JUSTIFIED —- just like he did.......simply because I “ Repented” ....I Repented God's Way....I finally Turned to Him ......God fulfilled His Promise —- “ Turn to me and I will Turn to You.”

So here is where the mistaken idea of “stopping Sinning” to Merit Heaven ( the erroneous view of repentance) can inadvertently lead to one’ s Salvation...If trying to conquer Sin leads you to see that you cant do it and the Holy Spirit That gave you the Self-Insight to see even “That” —— if that Spirit draws you with the CONVICTIOn Of SIN and the Awareness that you NEED a Savior you got Tricked .....the Route that you originally thought would Save you ( mastering Sin) turned out to be Lie.....but it lead you to your Salvation in spite of yourself and your self-Righteousness...... I you went on to put your Faith in Jesus to do FOR you what you discovered you could NOT do by yourself....you, my friend got “ Born Again” ....you got Saved.....Congrats!

You play with words (concepts) BB, and in so doing confuse the new and unstable in faith under the guise of 'insight'

God's authorship of Salvation is for all mankind.....for the simple and mentally challenged as well as those whose cognitive functions are reasonably intact. I say 'reasonably' because none of us have the capacity that Adam was created with.

If you recall what the angels message was to the shepherds on the hills of Bethlehem were you will note they did not confuse the issue.

 

[07-07-07]

You cannot sin your way into Heaven. Jesus said:

Matthew 5
[30] And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

 

[Davy]

You cannot sin your way into Heaven. Jesus said:

Matthew 5
[30] And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

Like Apostle John said...

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

[justbyfaith]

Like Apostle John said...

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Again, that is speaking of indwelling sin; not practical sinning.

We all have indwelling sin but this element of sin can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any authority over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

Just sowing bountifully here (see 2 Corinthians 9:6, Luke 8:11, Ecclesiastes 11:6)

 

[07-07-07]

Like Apostle John said...

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Correct. What precedes that?

1 John 1
[7] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

 

[Davy]

Correct. What precedes that?

1 John 1
[7] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

You need to read that 1 John 1 verse you quoted there, because His cleansing us from all sin doesn't happen unless we first have... sinned.

 

[07-07-07]

You need to read that 1 John 1 verse you quoted there, because His cleansing us from all sin doesn't happen unless we first have... sinned.

Correct. We are indeed sinners in need of a Savior. Then, as we walk in the Light (Obedience), the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. One goes from being a sinner to a Saint, cleansed by the blood of Jesus.

1 John 1
[7] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1 Corinthians 6
[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[Davy]

Correct. We are indeed sinners in need of a Savior. Then, as we walk in the Light (Obedience), the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. One goes from being a sinner to a Saint, cleansed by the blood of Jesus.

1 John 1
[7] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1 Corinthians 6
[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

I don't believe in the OSAS doctrine of men. Even after we have believed and been baptized, we will still sin. And we still need to repent to Jesus about it, and by that stay in the walk with Him.

 

[07-07-07]

I don't believe in the OSAS doctrine of men. Even after we have believed and been baptized, we will still sin. And we still need to repent to Jesus about it, and by that stay in the walk with Him.

Sin is not inevitable, and must be resisted when the tempter comes.

James 4
[7] Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

But, if one sins, and truly confesses it and forsakes it, he shall obtain mercy and forgiveness.

Proverbs 28
[13] He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 2
[1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

 

[Davy]

Sin is not inevitable, and must be resisted when the tempter comes.

James 4
[7] Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

But, if one sins, and truly confesses it and forsakes it, he shall obtain mercy and forgiveness.

Proverbs 28
[13] He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 2
[1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

And that is not... the OSAS doctrine from men, which is good, because 1 John 1 opposes the OSAS doctrines of men.

 

[Rene Loup]

Sin is not inevitable, and must be resisted when the tempter comes.

So what happens when you have a bad day at work and verbally take it out on your family?[1]
What happens when you look at a woman in a bikini for a bit too long?[2]
What happens when you impulsively tell others about the good things you have done because you needed a confidence boost?[3]
What happens when you talk trash about those kinds of people who, in your opinion, ruin the country?[4]
What happens when you litter?[5]
What happens when you are a fallible human being?[6]

If we're honest with ourselves, we are going to mess up and even be completely unaware of it. To argue otherwise would require a perfect memory and extreme amounts of self-awareness. The only innocent man in history is the Lord Jesus Christ and you know what we did to Him? We murdered Him and did so while claiming to do God's work.

1. Matthew 5:21-22, Proverbs 18:21
   
2. Matthew 5:27-30
   
3. Matthew 6:1-4
   
4. Galatians 3:28, James 2:1-13, 3:1-18, Leviticus 19:33-37
   
5. Genesis 2:15, Revelation 11:15-19
   
6. Ephesians 2:1-10, Matthew 5:17-20, Romans 3:9-20, 8:1-4

 

[Davy]

So what happens when you have a bad day at work and verbally take it out on your family?[1]
What happens when you look at a woman in a bikini for a bit too long?[2]
What happens when you impulsively tell others about the good things you have done because you needed a confidence boost?[3]
What happens when you talk trash about those kinds of people who, in your opinion, ruin the country?[4]
What happens when you litter?[5]
What happens when you are a fallible human being?[6]

If we're honest with ourselves, we are going to mess up and even be completely unaware of it. To argue otherwise would require a perfect memory and extreme amounts of self-awareness. The only innocent man in history is the Lord Jesus Christ and you know what we did to Him? We murdered Him and did so while claiming to do God's work.

1. Matthew 5:21-22, Proverbs 18:21
   
2. Matthew 5:27-30
   
3. Matthew 6:1-4
   
4. Galatians 3:28, James 2:1-13, 3:1-18, Leviticus 19:33-37
   
5. Genesis 2:15, Revelation 11:15-19
   
6. Ephesians 2:1-10, Matthew 5:17-20, Romans 3:9-20, 8:1-4

All the more to repent to Him daily, if we feel we need it, which prayer is one of the things we are to do often. And how He told us to pray...

Luke 11:1-4
11:1 And it came to pass, that, as He was praying in a certain place, when He ceased, one of His disciples said unto Him, "Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples."
2 And He said unto them, "When ye pray, say, 'Our Father Which art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
3 Give us day by day our daily bread.
4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil."
KJV

Wow! Jesus taught us that when we pray, to ask forgiveness of our sins!!!

I guess those stuck on OSAS that don't believe they sin anymore also don't pray anymore. By that false attitude a faithful believer on Christ Jesus ought to know that OSAS is actually a doctrine of devils.

 

[Rene Loup]

All the more to repent to Him daily, if we feel we need it, which prayer is one of the things we are to do often. And how He told us to pray...

Luke 11:1-4
11:1 And it came to pass, that, as He was praying in a certain place, when He ceased, one of His disciples said unto Him, "Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples."
2 And He said unto them, "When ye pray, say, 'Our Father Which art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
3 Give us day by day our daily bread.
4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil."
KJV

Wow! Jesus taught us that when we pray, to ask forgiveness of our sins!!!

I guess those stuck on OSAS that don't believe they sin anymore also don't pray anymore. By that false attitude a faithful believer on Christ Jesus ought to know that OSAS is actually a doctrine of devils.

Yes, I agree. This is one of the reasons why I recite the Lord's Prayer on a regular basis. The point I'm trying to make is that Christian living, especially to the point of Puritanism, is MUCH easier said than done. This is why we need a sinless man as our Lord and Saviour. After receiving Him, we fight daily against sin by actually loving others as ourselves, treating others in ways we want to be treated, and never do things to others we wouldn't want done to ourselves. This is the second greatest commandment, after loving God with all our of being.[1] Therefore, the most effective tool in fighting against sin is empathy!

Be very careful not to make it about works either. It's very easy to fall into the legalism trap which opens all sorts of doors, like it did to the Pharisees.[2]

1. Deuteronomy 5:1-22, Exodus 20:1-17, Galatians 5:13-26, Luke 10:25-37, Mark 12:28-34, Matthew 22:34-40, Romans 13:8-10
2. Luke 5:17-32, 6:1-11, Mark 3:1-6, Matthew 9:1-13, 12:1-14, Romans 5:1-11

 

[07-07-07]

So what happens when you have a bad day at work and verbally take it out on your family?[1]
What happens when you look at a woman in a bikini for a bit too long?[2]
What happens when you impulsively tell others about the good things you have done because you needed a confidence boost?[3]
What happens when you talk trash about those kinds of people who, in your opinion, ruin the country?[4]
What happens when you litter?[5]
What happens when you are a fallible human being?[6]

If we're honest with ourselves, we are going to mess up and even be completely unaware of it. To argue otherwise would require a perfect memory and extreme amounts of self-awareness. The only innocent man in history is the Lord Jesus Christ and you know what we did to Him? We murdered Him and did so while claiming to do God's work.

1. Matthew 5:21-22, Proverbs 18:21
   
2. Matthew 5:27-30
   
3. Matthew 6:1-4
   
4. Galatians 3:28, James 2:1-13, 3:1-18, Leviticus 19:33-37
   
5. Genesis 2:15, Revelation 11:15-19
   
6. Ephesians 2:1-10, Matthew 5:17-20, Romans 3:9-20, 8:1-4

We are going to be tempted continually in this life, particularly this world of Sodom and Gomorrah of this present age. However, don't confuse temptation with sin. Sin must be resisted, so we must be sober and vigilant against the wiles of the devil. What's the secret?

Romans 13
[14] But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

 

[Rene Loup]

We are going to be tempted continually in this life, particularly this world of Sodom and Gomorrah of this present age. However, don't confuse temptation with sin. Sin must be resisted, so we must be sober and vigilant against the wiles of the devil. What's the secret?

Romans 13
[14] But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Yes, I agree. ALWAYS fight temptation.[4] But, it is inevitable that mistakes will happen. John the Apostle, one of Jesus Christ's closest disciples, made the mistake of offering worship to an angel instead of God.[2] Why did this happen in spite of his extreme spiritual gifting? Because he was a fallible human being. Paul the Apostle writes about having a "thorn in his flesh" to keep him humble while serving God.[3] Why did this have to happen, even with his extreme spiritual gifting? Because he was a fallible human being who needed the extra help with his sin of pride.

Fortunately for us, our impulsive mistakes are no longer literal death sentences thanks to our faith in Jesus Christ's death on the cross. This is where God's grace comes in.[1]

1. Ephesians 2:1-10, Galatians 2:11-21, John 3:16-18,
   
2. Revelation 19:9-10
3. 2 Corinthians 12:1-10
4. James 4:1-12, Luke 11:2-4, Matthew 6:9-13

 

[07-07-07]

Yes, I agree. ALWAYS fight temptation.[4] But, it is inevitable that mistakes will happen. John the Apostle, one of Jesus Christ's closest disciples, made the mistake of offering worship to an angel instead of God.[2] Why did this happen in spite of his extreme spiritual gifting? Because he was a fallible human being. Paul the Apostle writes about having a "thorn in his flesh" to keep him humble while serving God.[3] Why did this have to happen, even with his extreme spiritual gifting? Because he was a fallible human being who needed the extra help with his sin of pride.

Fortunately for us, our impulsive mistakes are no longer literal death sentences thanks to our faith in Jesus Christ's death on the cross. This is where God's grace comes in.[1]

1. Ephesians 2:1-10, Galatians 2:11-21, John 3:16-18,
   
2. Revelation 19:9-10
3. 2 Corinthians 12:1-10
4. James 4:1-12, Luke 11:2-4, Matthew 6:9-13

Mistakes are inevitable, but not sin; I am referring to willful sin. There's a difference between ignorant sin, or mistakes, and willful sin. If we love Jesus, we will not willfully sin because of our love for Him. He's given us a new heart and a new spirit, one that loves righteousness and abhors sin.

Roman 6
[1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

 

[Rene Loup]

Mistakes are inevitable, but not sin; I am referring to willful sin. There's a difference between ignorant sin, or mistakes, and willful sin. If we love Jesus, we will not willfully sin because of our love for Him. He's given us a new heart and a new spirit, one that loves righteousness and abhors sin.

Roman 6
[1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

In the context of willful sin, I agree completely. In the context of attempting to live sinless lives, it is simply not possible for reasons I have already explained.

 

[justbyfaith]

Even after we have believed and been baptized, we will still sin.

Speak for yourself! it is indeed possible to walk in freedom (John 8:31-36) and victory (1 Corinthians 15:57) over sin (1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17).

And we still need to repent to Jesus about it, and by that stay in the walk with Him.

If you are already walking in the direction of righteousness, it would be a mistake to make another 180-degree turn. You would be walking in the direction of sin again.

This is one of the reasons why I recite the Lord's Prayer on a regular basis.

So, you ask the Lord to lead you not into temptation and to deliver you from evil. Do you believe that He answers in the affirmative?

But, it is inevitable that mistakes will happen.

So, you don't believe that the Lord answers you when you pray to Him. That is kind of sad.

In the context of willful sin, I agree completely. In the context of attempting to live sinless lives, it is simply not possible for reasons I have already explained.

If someone lives consistently according to the Spirit, the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in them (Romans 8:4). This means walking in freedom from (John 8:31-36) and victory over (1 Corinthians 15:57) sin (1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17).

I think that the reason why many people don't believe that they can walk in freedom and victory is because their experience is devoid of the Holy Spirit. If they were walking in the Spirit for any amount of time, they would see that it is possible to walk in freedom and victory for an extended period of time.

 

[Enoch111]

So here is where the mistaken idea of “stopping Sinning” to Merit Heaven

It is not "stop sinning to merit Heaven" but "stop sinning period". Repentance is a TURNING AWAY from sins and idols and a TURNING TO the living God and Christ. There is no salvation without genuine repentance.

 

[Rene Loup]

So, you ask the Lord to lead you not into temptation and to deliver you from evil. Do you believe that He answers in the affirmative?

As I said in my post, I recite the Lord's Prayer partially for forgiveness of sins, ones I made because I am a fallible human being, not a golden god.[3]
It is such a multifaceted prayer written in a very easy and direct way. Hence why it is called 'The Model Prayer'.[4]

Give us today our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
Matthew 6:11-12 (NKJV)

Give us day by day our daily bread.
And forgive us our sins,
For we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.”
Luke 11:3-4 (NKJV)

If the "Lead us not into temptation" part worked exactly like how you are implying, then why even include the above verses in the Lord's Prayer, the exact same prayer asking us not to be lead into temptation and delivered from evil?

Furthermore, while God CAN answer our prayers in such a way, it doesn't mean He WILL. Prayers and Psalms are NOT magic spells, they are requests to the Supreme Being Who is sovereign[1] and Whose answers are MUCH wiser than our prayers.[2]

1. Isaiah 45:5-12, Romans 9:6-29
2. 1 Corinthians 1:18-31, 2 Corinthians 12:1-10, Luke 11:9-13
3. Romans 3:9-20
4. Matthew 6:7-14

So, you don't believe that the Lord answers you when you pray to Him. That is kind of sad.

...And right there you just sinned by using disrespectful language[1] after twisting my words.[2] What's your excuse for this?

1. Ephesians 4:25-32, Matthew 5:21-23, Proverbs 18:21
2. Deuteronomy 19:15-21, Exodus 20:16, Psalms 56:1-7